Anyone advise. Got an MOT fail today on front wishbone ( not console bushes- the other side) with excess play. MOT man tells me that replacement bushes are not available and best option is to replace wishbone.

1- anyone verify that replacement bushes are not available

2-if  cheapest option is to replace wishbone assembly.

3- An idea of time/cost if I hand the garage a new wishbone and let them replace it.

The small bush doesn't seem to be listed separately by Skoda, as far as I can see, but you can definitely get aftermarket ones. I've not heard of the small bush failing before TBH.

 

Poly ones...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Skoda-Fabia-MK1-Front-Wishbone-Front-Poly-Polyurethane-Bush-1999-to-2007/184168176986?epid=0&hash=item2ae1475d5a:g:n5IAAOSwfBlcPyjB

 

Or aftermarket rubber ones...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suspension-Arm-Wishbone-Bush-Front-Axle-Front-FOR-FABIA-I-1-0-1-2-1-4-1-9-2-0/402474317368?hash=item5db556b638:g:wPYAAOSwRrVfcZCG

 

I've no idea of the labour costs as I don't use garages except for MOT. Probably be cheaper just to bung a new arm on. Let's hope the threads in the alloy console are OK as they can be seized and strip and then you need a new console. The wonders of Galvanic corrosion - steel bolt/alloy console.

 

 

 

Edited 6 October, 20205 yr by TMB

Thanks, Lee. I couldn't get a fixed price out of the MOT place, but he did suggest a new arm would be cheaper. I've got a new arm and possibly it might be a good time to ask my local VAG inde for a price. Few years ago I'd have just got on with it, but nowadays with a hip problem I'm more or less at the mercy of th garages. I'd have thought that the console threads would succumb to helicoil treatment. 

22 minutes ago, VWD said:

I'd have thought that the console threads would succumb to helicoil treatment. 

 

Not seen it done but maybe.

did both mine for mot ,my garage in Yorkshire is about £30 a side (including console bushes) plus cost of wishbones  and console bushes (they tell me they are often damaged replacing wishbones) )  couldn't get to Yorkshire so had to use a place down here who managed to mess up the aluminium console ,if this happens eurocarparts do for about 50 quid

Thanks Anton. Local MOT place was hedging on price  so I might ask the local VAG Indie for a quote. I've got the wishbone and I've had the consol bushes swapped out for Powerflex as they' failed a few years ago.

On 06/10/2020 at 23:17, VWD said:

Anyone advise. Got an MOT fail today on front wishbone ( not console bushes- the other side) with excess play. MOT man tells me that replacement bushes are not available and best option is to replace wishbone.

1- anyone verify that replacement bushes are not available

2-if  cheapest option is to replace wishbone assembly.

3- An idea of time/cost if I hand the garage a new wishbone and let them replace it.

 

Workshop manuals doesn't show the front bush as a separate part, though FEBI etc replacements exist. As do Powerflex.
 

 

Garages hate replacing the bushes because you have to cut them up to get them out and pressing the new ones in is a pain, hence replacing the entire wishbone with a bush already pre- fitted is the favoured option.

According to info @Tech1e posted once upon a time, these bushes are the same as used on a mk2 Golf (and probably a host of other applications, PN 357 407 182.

 

£15 each genuine according to this site (which I by no means recommend except for price-checking, as they let me down badly recently, and very unapologetically) https://www.allcarpartsfast.co.uk/vw-audi-seat-skoda/vw-audi-seat-skoda-357407182-rubb-mount/

 

So when you can buy a whole wishbone for twenty-odd, just not worth the grief at all.  

 

BTW, seeking out the cheapest garage for these jobs isn't always he best strategy long-term, cos if they're doing it for next-to-nothing, they'll surely re-use the long bolts that go into the consoles, stitching up the next person who tries to undo them as they'll likely gall up and rip the thread out of the aluminium or just jam up solid. That's why they're single use, nothing to do with stretching, IMO, all about corrosion.

Edited 19 October, 20205 yr by Wino

I agree on the cost of replacing a wishbone vis a vi the bush. I've a long experience of ye ancient BMC( aka Badly Made Cars) /BL (aka Bloody Lousy) ,cars where the front suspension was littered with Metalastic bushes and the problems getting them out and replacing them . I was fortunate in those days in that I was employed ( working occasionally) for the fore runner to BT and we had a good MT section, with a MT foreman who was keen to pass on his knowledge to any of us /help us out etc. In those days we were responsible for minor servicing of our vehicles ( oil change/ steering + suspension greasing) .

Local place I use for MOT is also pretty knowledgeable  on VAG. I'm only looking for a rough guide as to price as local place mentioned price depends on his mood. I doubt if this place would reuse bolts. I've seen to many ham fisted blokes try to take remove old bolts passing through a member and with thread protruding on other side attempt to take bolt out using brute force to remove the muck on the exposed threads ,where it's simpler to try to wash the muck of the threads , slacken the bolt off till it starts to object- tighten back in ,re lubricate to loosen more muck and try again. Repeat till bolt out.

  He's old school .I would not use a place with rock bottom prices . But I do have a local indie .Might just get a quote from him.

Tbh my place in Yorkshire with the rock bottom price is 100 times better than the expensive clowns I used in Bodmin  they forgot to put the undertray back on ,the console bush put in on the side they didn't break isn't correctly orientated ,they didn't track it back up. Had to get done here in Cornwall as the play was massive and shredding tyres by the mile and wheel wobble.

When I eventually visited my folks in Yorkshire and took to my place there ,he did the mot and advised me of the shoddy job 

He did droplinks ,rear break reline untwisted CV boot ,and an mot for £80 including a lift to my folks house ,when you find a place like this you stick to it I guess.

 

 

My little MOT place is reasonable for mechanical jobs. Brakes, I wonder about as last year my handbrake problem was diagnosed as a wheel cylinder but it passed on footbrake. This year I've had to replace the other side wheel cylinder ( leaking) and found the handbrake cable sticking. Last year my daughter had a fail on excess leak on the exhaust gasket. Passed after work to reduce major leak to minor one. That rang alarm bells with me ,as I'd expect a exhaust gasket replacement to last a bit longer if done properly . They've already replaced the consol bush on the failed side on mine,( with a poly flex one)  so I'd expect little problems on the consol bolts.

Again as said, I've found an MOT place where it's a fair MOT,knowing that the might/might not get the work as there's an indie just down the road.

Local garage ,where they know how to turn a drama into a crisis. Daughter had MOT fail with what I'd suspect was an exhaust gasket fail. I've checked her last year MOT, to find a similar fail, supposedly repaired by same garage. This time, she took her car back in with an exhaust blow. Turned out to be manifold to down pipe clamp problem.  Today I had a call - changing the front wishbone, they'd managed to shear the rear consol bolt. I'd suspect it's young unsupervised lackey with an air gun. FFS- how much experience does it take to know that force only breaks. If a bolt is tight, then there's a reason and a decent mechanic will find a way to ease it out.

But after one of the partners had a look, he suggested that he'd be happy passing the Mot with a Helicoil repair. On the good side, they did replace the standard front consol bush with the polyflex bush they fitted a few years ago ( when they never replaced the front consol bolt with a new one).

Did the steering tracking get checked- that's something to find out tomorrow. If not, then they've lost out on any MOT work on mine , possibly my daughter's and the bike work SIL takes in there.

On the Helicoil repair- watch this space.

Edited 14 October, 20205 yr by VWD

A helicoil is stronger than the original thread so there are no concerns about long term reliability or safety.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the garage. The console bolts are notorious for seizing in the alloy console. It's not always possible to ease them out.

I'd agree, but from the size of the bolts ( 17/19mm??) how much force is needed to shear a bolt. I'd suspect it was given to one of their trainees who believes that force cures all( and a windy spanner  will remove all bolts). After 50+ years  as an engineer ( by training and qualifications), I know that force only breaks, and never solves a problem .

Sep - I agree on helicoils, if done properly.

What/which do you mean by 'rear consol bolt'?

The only bolts that need releasing to remove the wishbone are the balljoint M8 trio and the front M12 horizontal  bolt that goes through subframe, wishbone front bush and then into the console.

Edited 16 October, 20205 yr by Wino

By rear consol bolt, I meant the bolt that goes through the rear (front) wishbone) into the consol. From the one on the bench I'd say it was a bit bigger than 12.

A rear (front) wishbone)? 

 

Not sure if we were ever talking about the front bush, as labelled here?, but I think we're now referring to the front bolt, here? As I mentioned (on Oct 8th above) as the source of trouble for the next removal if bolts are reused.

 

 

 

Note: this is a left (UK Nearside) wishbone and the front of the car would be at the left of the picture, rear of the car to the right.

Edited 19 October, 20205 yr by Wino

These look quite different to the Octavia's, but I managed to shear (no matter how hard I tried not to by cleaning and easing) one of the three bolts that go through the console when I attempted to swap the console's on mine a number of years back now.

 

Cannot remember if it was the bigger one or one of the two smaller ones but ended up having to take it to a garage to sort it. Heat would have been my friend I think......

12 hours ago, Wino said:

Not sure if we were ever talking about the front bush, as labelled here?, but I think we're now referring to the front bolt, here? As I mentioned (on Oct 8th above) as the source of trouble for the next removal if bolts are reused.

 

 

 

Note: this is a left (UK Nearside) wishbone and the front of the car would be at the left of the picture, rear of the car to the right.

Wino- It was the driver side. From seeing what was left of the bolt I'd assumed it was  larger than 12mm. But again. how much brute force would it take to shear a 12mm high tensile bolt. The garage in question had replaced the OEM bushes with polybushes on a MOT repair, but used the old bolt.

As we are on “Failed MOTs”,my 6Y5 failed this morning on a broken OSF spring, and a “slightly dragging “,OSR brake.Sorted the brake this afternoon, the usual pad rusted into the carrier,and car is booked in for the spring on Thursday,quoted between

£80 to £90.I would have done this myself 5yrs.ago no problem, but the arthritis in my knees and hip have beaten me at last.

I had no idea about the spring, there is about 2inches boken from the top of the coil.

13 hours ago, VWD said:

how much brute force would it take to shear a 12mm high tensile bolt.

Loads, but once the bolt starts to bind up in the aluminium you basically have two choices.

 

1. Give up, do it back up and hope you didn't really need to do the job you were setting about doing.

2. Keep trying to get it out even if you have to snap it to do so.  Reason being that it goes through the subframe as well as wishbone on its way into the big long threaded hole through the console. So you have to get the bolt out in order to get these other bits off the car. 

 

Right side viewed from above:

 

 

When I stripped all the suspension/brakes of my old Fabia I soaked the pivot bolt (front bolt for front bush on front lower arm/wishbone) with penetrating oil the night before....as the thread ia seen from the rear is a through hole in the alu console....this is the area in which it rusts in...

 

Anyway mine came out ok..nice & slow..not spun on an air gun!