SAIC/ Maxus add an EV pickup.......

 

 

 

 

And WHEN we are at war with or impose sanctions on China and they remotely shut down all the Chinese **** people (and councils) have bought, what you going to do then?

Just as England will have to do when the French close the last of their Nuclear plants in the UK probably.

 

Mericans are starting WW3 pretty soon, they are about there.

 

Before that the Chinese owned along with front man Jim Rattcliffe / Ineos are closing te Grangemouth refinery / cracking plant.

So much for Energy Security as far as Scotland and the North of England goes as far as Road, Air & Marine fuels.

They will just have to rely on imported fuel that come in by tanker as the south will one the other refineries close.

The UK better get those conscripts trained and and start getting more ships built, maybe in Poland. 

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

Just as England will have to do when the French close the last of their Nuclear plants in the UK probably.

 

Mericans are starting WW3 pretty soon, they are about there.

 

Before that the Chinese owned along with front man Jim Rattcliffe / Ineos are closing te Grangemouth refinery / cracking plant.

So much for Energy Security as far as Scotland and the North of England goes as far as Road, Air & Marine fuels.

They will just have to rely on imported fuel that come in by tanker as the south will one the other refineries close.

The UK better get those conscripts trained and and start getting more ships built, maybe in Poland. 

 

Hydrocarbons to be burnt is a rapidly dying sector.  We need oil for plastics but need to stop using hydrocarbons in any mode for motive power.

 

Scotland has massive renewable to exploit, tidal, wind, solar if you say so, plus massive potential for energy storage with both battery and pumped in to the GWh and tens of GWh for pumped.

 

Europe and US has now cut its EV subsidies but the Chinese EVs and TESLA just keep coming as they do not even need subsidies.  Next consideration for Europe and America is Anti-Dumping Duties needed over and about the 10% Ad Valorem customs duties to slow down the wiping out of Audi, BMW, JLR,Merc, Stellantis and VW ??    

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Hydrocarbons to be burnt is a rapidly dying sector.  

 

 

You keep saying that without presenting any evidence.  Please provide that evidence.

The UK Government keep issuing more licences for the North Sea explorations. 

They are rather happy with the revenues that come in and really could not care less who is actually getting the licences as long as it is not obvious as being Russia. Plenty changing of ownership happens but really the ownership's are not moving far other than in apperances,

They care not about how many go the way of China.

 

When the Forties Pipeline which was opened in 1975 eventually closes the UK is in trouble and i am not aware of any replacement for it happening. 

It could shut down anytime if leaks happen like there was in 2017 near Stonehaven. 

INEOS own it having bought it from BP. 

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

Doesn't look like any plans to close soon?

 

Since 1975, the Forties Pipeline System ("FPS") has been the vanguard of the UK's North Sea oil and gas industry  – safely transporting and processing billions of barrels of crude oil. Under INEOS' ownership the FPS enters a new phase in its lifecycle underwritten by a strategy encompassing three key elements: Sustainability, Investment and the local Community.

Our 2040+ goal requires targeted investment in the infrastructure, critical to ensuring we are still operating efficiently, safely and sustainably for the next twenty years and beyond. In 2018 we announced a £500million strategic investment in the FPS to reconfigure the system, extend its life and continue to support North sea oil and gas production, sustainably, into the longterm.

 

 

https://www.ineos.com/businesses/ineos-fps/strategy/

 

Ineos also

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-selects-magna-build-small-electric-4x4-2026

 

@Stonekeeper  Absolutely no plans to shut down, other than in an emergency.

?

Where are the plans for replacement, or upkeep, renewal?  I had friends that worked on the building of it, long since dead some of them. 

Grangemouth is closing and becoming a terminal for supplies arriving by sea.  As already happens.

 

The pipeline is 1 mile away from where i live.  It is amazing how many people locally have no idea where it is.

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

2 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@Stonekeeper  Absolutely no plans to shut down, other than in an emergency.

?

Where are the plans for replacement, or upkeep, renewal?  I had friends that worked on the building of it, long since dead some of them. 

Grangemouth is closing and becoming a terminal for supplies arriving by sea.  As already happens.

 

 

INEOS Chemicals Grangemouth (INEOS O&P UK), INEOS FPS and Petroineos signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Acorn CCS Project to work together to develop Scotland’s first carbon capture and storage system linking Scotland’s industrial heartland to the Acorn CO2 transport and storage system in North East Scotland by 2027. Investment at the Grangemouth site will enable the capture and storage of approximately one million tonnes a year of CO2 from Grangemouth by 2030, with the scope to capture further significant volumes beyond this date. Once operational the proposed carbon capture and storage system will further increase emission reduction at the site to more than 50% compared with 2005.

 

The FPS is managed in accordance with a Pipeline Integrity Management Scheme (PIMS). This documentation system meets the requirements of all relevant regulations.

We define clear accountabilities and responsibilities for integrity management within the FPS. Regular integrity management reviews take place with our operating and inspection authorities and we review our operation and integrity data annually with the Health and Safety Executive.

The forecast operational lifetime of the FPS pipelines is reviewed by us regularly and we expect the system to be available to at least 2040.

The pipeline integrity strategy of the FPS is to inhibit internal corrosion and we have been successful in sustaining negligible corrosion rates. Our inspection data demonstrates the success of this strategy and we see no reason to expect that the pipeline life of the FPS will not extend beyond 2040. We will continue to invest heavily in the FPS to maintain required integrity and availability performance to end of life.

19 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

You keep saying that without presenting any evidence.  Please provide that evidence.

 

Gosh, one could put together several books on it but here is a few examples...........

 

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

 

• On 15 May 2023 the UK produced its trillionth kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity generated from renewable sources – enough to power UK homes for 12 years based on average consumption. While it took 50 years to reach this milestone, based on current projections it will take just over five years to reach the next trillionth kWh.
• December 2023 was the 15^th month in a row where zero-carbon generation produced more than fossil fuel generation.
• We’ve reduced the involvement of coal in our generation mix by more than 97% since 2013. Power provided from coal was responsible for only 1% of electricity generation in 2023, compared to 2018 when coal represented 5.1% and 2013 when 39.6% was generated by coal – showing the significant reduction that’s taking place.
• Zero-carbon power sources in Britain’s electricity mix outperformed traditional fossil fuel generation in 2023 by providing 51% of the electricity used, compared to 32% from gas and 1% from coal.
• A maximum zero carbon record of 87.6% was reached on 4 January 2023.
• The record for the maximum amount of wind power generation was broken twice in 2023;10 January saw the first record of the year, with wind generating over 21.6GW, and 21 December delivered the largest wind generation to date with a record 21.8GW. The highest share of wind in the overall generation mix was on 19 November 2023 between 4:30am and 5am, at 69%.
• 20 April 2023 saw the highest ever solar generation record at 10.971GW.
• 2023 was the greenest year on record, with carbon intensity averaging 149 grams of CO₂ per kWh. The lowest carbon intensity record of 27 gCO₂/kWh was achieved on 18 September 2023.

 

Half way round the world countries like Australia, rich in coal, has transformed at a stunning rate.....

Petroleum will still get supplied by Russia and the Saudis who can pump it for as low as $20 a barrel and there will be buyers for it but as lithium batteries and solar panels have been dropping by more than 20% per year, year on year, it is only a matter of a few years that engines running on petroleum will be more costly than electric ones not to mention the continually much higher servicing costs too....... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@StonekeeperThanks for that.  But then i have friends working for them.   In NDT / Non Destructive Testing. 

  Funnily not everyone came up the Clyde or the Forth on a paddle board.   Lots of public money might come in and a damn site more gets thrown their way.

When Petroineos or China says enough then Offski they go. 

 

Time will tell. 

If the Carbon Capture goes ahead.  It could have been approved a decade ago for Peterhead when they can actually get on and do it. 

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Gosh, one could put together several books on it but here is a few examples...........

 

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

 

• On 15 May 2023 the UK produced its trillionth kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity generated from renewable sources – enough to power UK homes for 12 years based on average consumption. While it took 50 years to reach this milestone, based on current projections it will take just over five years to reach the next trillionth kWh.
• December 2023 was the 15^th month in a row where zero-carbon generation produced more than fossil fuel generation.
• We’ve reduced the involvement of coal in our generation mix by more than 97% since 2013. Power provided from coal was responsible for only 1% of electricity generation in 2023, compared to 2018 when coal represented 5.1% and 2013 when 39.6% was generated by coal – showing the significant reduction that’s taking place.
• Zero-carbon power sources in Britain’s electricity mix outperformed traditional fossil fuel generation in 2023 by providing 51% of the electricity used, compared to 32% from gas and 1% from coal.
• A maximum zero carbon record of 87.6% was reached on 4 January 2023.
• The record for the maximum amount of wind power generation was broken twice in 2023;10 January saw the first record of the year, with wind generating over 21.6GW, and 21 December delivered the largest wind generation to date with a record 21.8GW. The highest share of wind in the overall generation mix was on 19 November 2023 between 4:30am and 5am, at 69%.
• 20 April 2023 saw the highest ever solar generation record at 10.971GW.
• 2023 was the greenest year on record, with carbon intensity averaging 149 grams of CO₂ per kWh. The lowest carbon intensity record of 27 gCO₂/kWh was achieved on 18 September 2023.

 

Half way round the world countries like Australia, rich in coal, has transformed at a stunning rate.....

Petroleum will still get supplied by Russia and the Saudis who can pump it for as low as $20 a barrel and there will be buyers for it but as lithium batteries and solar panels have been dropping by more than 20% per year, year on year, it is only a matter of a few years that engines running on petroleum will be more costly than electric ones not to mention the continually much higher servicing costs too....... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Errr...   That info is all about increased sustainable energy and reduced coal use, or reduced oil use overseas.

 

Do you have any uk based evidence of reducing hydrocarbon use as opposed to increased sustainable generation and specifically related to cars as per this topic?  And I'm not talking about sales numbers of EVs.

 

Thanks 

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by skomaz

2 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Errr...   That info is all about increased sustainable energy and reduced coal use, or reduced oil use overseas.

 

Do you have any uk based evidence of reducing hydrocarbon use as opposed to increased sustainable generation and specifically related to cars as per this topic?  And I'm not talking about sales numbers of EVs.

 

Thanks 

The article quoted is from UK National Grid.

In which carbon intensity is said to be lowest on record. Use of hydrocarbon raises carbon intensity.

Cars charge off the grid most of the time.

56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The article quoted is from UK National Grid.

In which carbon intensity is said to be lowest on record. Use of hydrocarbon raises carbon intensity.

Cars charge off the grid most of the time.

 

Again not what I asked... 

 

The comment was 'hydrocarbons to be burnt is a rapiy dying sector'...   And i asked for specifics related to vehicles...   Ie evidence that transport as a whole is burningess hydrocarbons and that hydrocarbon supply for transport is a rapidly dying sector...   but no evidence has yet been provided, only comments re sustainable generation of electricity... 

39 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Again not what I asked... 

 

The comment was 'hydrocarbons to be burnt is a rapiy dying sector'...   And i asked for specifics related to vehicles...   Ie evidence that transport as a whole is burningess hydrocarbons and that hydrocarbon supply for transport is a rapidly dying sector...   but no evidence has yet been provided, only comments re sustainable generation of electricity... 

There's millions of vehicles around the world that are now either full EV or hybrids.

Ergo that means millions fewer vehicles burning fossil fuels.

It's just counting. It's not rocket science. 

13 minutes ago, @Lee said:

There's millions of vehicles around the world that are now either full EV or hybrids.

Ergo that means millions fewer vehicles burning fossil fuels.

It's just counting. It's not rocket science. 

 

There's also lots more vehicles on the roads around the world...   Ergo there might not be a rapidly dying hydrocarbons to be burnt sector...   It might be holding steady or increasing... 

 

All I'm asking for is direct evidence of a reduction in the hydrocarbons to be burnt sector but no one has provided it yet...   I'm sure you understand why I'm asking as you've asked simarly re other subjects 😀

 

After all it's not like we've all been posting threads about petrol filling stations closing here there and everywhere...   Or posting about the UK or the world using less hydrocarbons for transport. 

 

I'm not being funny I'd just like to see some evidence behind the statement otherwise how do I and others know it's valid. 

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by skomaz

57 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

There's also lots more vehicles on the roads around the world...   Ergo there might not be a rapidly dying hydrocarbons to be burnt sector...   It might be holding steady or increasing... 

 

All I'm asking for is direct evidence of a reduction in the hydrocarbons to be burnt sector but no one has provided it yet...   I'm sure you understand why I'm asking as you've asked simarly re other subjects 😀

 

After all it's not like we've all been posting threads about petrol filling stations closing here there and everywhere...   Or posting about the UK or the world using less hydrocarbons for transport. 

 

I'm not being funny I'd just like to see some evidence behind the statement otherwise how do I and others know it's valid. 

 

I don't think you're being funny either. 

Borderline trolling perhaps but definitely not being funny. 

You play the same act in my Single Market topic which you alluded to.

I don't know if you're trying to play Devil's advocate sometimes which I could understand but if that's the case, you do a bad job of it. 

 

Edited 5 February, 20242 yr by @Lee

Of the 32.2 million cars licensed in Great Britain at the end of 2021, 18.7 million were petrol powered (the same number compared to the previous year), 11.2 million were diesel powered (down 3 per cent compared to the previous year) and 2.3 million alternatively-fuelled (up 43 per cent compared to the previous year).

Source: Department for Transport table VEH1103

 

By the end of June 2023, petrol and diesel cars still dominated British roads. In fact, 59% of cars on the road were petrol and 35% were diesel. In terms of real numbers, there were 19,243,306 petrol cars and 11,498,138 diesel cars registered in the UK in 2023. There are 7% fewer diesel cars on the road now compared to two years ago.

How about electric or plug-in hybrid electric cars? In mid 2023 there were 2,718,386 EVs in the UK, a 14X increase since 2014. In June 2023, 8.3% of cars in the UK were fully or partially fueled by electric power. Hybrid electrics are by far the most popular, with 1,468,350 on the road in 2023.

 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain

9 hours ago, skomaz said:

Again not what I asked... 

Let's break down what you asked: 

 

13 hours ago, skomaz said:

Do you have any uk based evidence of reducing hydrocarbon use

10 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The article quoted is from UK National Grid.

 

13 hours ago, skomaz said:

reducing hydrocarbon use as opposed to increased sustainable generation

10 hours ago, wyx087 said:

carbon intensity is said to be lowest on record. Use of hydrocarbon raises carbon intensity.

 

13 hours ago, skomaz said:

and specifically related to cars as per this topic?

10 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Cars charge off the grid most of the time.

 

It is EXACTLY answer to what you've asked: More EV + greener grid = less hydrocarbon burnt. 

 

But you have decided decline in petrol station is the only correct answer to your question. In that case, this is the first one in UK: https://www.businessinsider.com/shell-gas-station-electric-vehicle-charging-hub-london-uk-2022-2

20 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Let's break down what you asked: 

 

 

 

 

It is EXACTLY answer to what you've asked: More EV + greener grid = less hydrocarbon burnt. 

 

But you have decided decline in petrol station is the only correct answer to your question. In that case, this is the first one in UK: https://www.businessinsider.com/shell-gas-station-electric-vehicle-charging-hub-london-uk-2022-2

 

No it's not the exact answer...   Read again.

 

As for your second statement...   I haven't...   It was an example.

 

All of the above provides no evidence of reduced vastly reduced Hydrocarbon use.  Where are the hydrocarbon use figures that would show hydrocarbons to be burnt is a dying sector.

 

I'm not sure why you are missing the point I'm asking???

 

And just to be clear I'm not anti EV...   I'm actually considering an MG4 as a possible replacement as and when my daughter takes on the hybrid Swift we have.

Edited 5 February, 20242 yr by skomaz

I watched a rather well know EV Youtuber with a vid at the weekend talking about cheap charging with his provider and he actually said it was very windy and good for renewables and he was plugging in and charging.

 

My thought was how many Wind Farms on shore or off are near where you actually are and it is more important that the wind is blowing where the renewable electricity is generated.

Not how it works though, there are those that do not need energy produced anyplace near them, yet they get cheap power and those near the turbines might well not because they are not with Octopus or have not got Smart Meters.

 

As to the reduction of ICE vehicles on the roads and less fossil fuels.  This year a percentage of new cars will be Electrified and a growing percentage each year.

As long as cars are getting scrapped and taken off the roads then maybe emissions drop.

Real world is that a lot of cars in the UK no matter how many millions are parked up and not moving most of the time, that includes Light Commercials but light commercials might possibly be more used than passenger cars, and they do tend to use more fuel / diesel. 

 

Commercial Use Cars and Vans going EV in higher numbers will help a fair bit, and might well get charged more using off peak charging. 

 

Smug!

Cheaper for him than actually erecting his own turbine so when the wind blows around his home he can glow.

 

 

 

Edited 5 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

Decline in hydrocarbon tax receipts.  This tax has been broadly the same for many years, wnet down loads in pandemic and is now at a lower level than was in noughties....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284323/united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts-fuel-duty/

 

13 minutes ago, Rooted said:

 

Real world is that a lot of cars in the UK no matter how many millions are parked up and not moving most of the time, that includes Light Commercials but light commercials might possibly be more used than passenger cars, and they do tend to use more fuel / diesel. 

 

 

At least George seems to understand the point I'm getting at...

13 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Decline in hydrocarbon tax receipts.  This tax has been broadly the same for many years, wnet down loads in pandemic and is now at a lower level than was in noughties....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284323/united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts-fuel-duty/

 

 

Thanks...   That's a bit more of an answer to my question...   But a 3% change is hardly rapidly dying...