L&K Superb is an Awesome Car, but the Driver's Seat is Awful

[RoyF]

Hi folks, I recently bought a year old Superb L&K. I absolutely love the car in all respects but two weeks in I began to get lower back problems which have only gotten worse. Now totally ruining my driving experience. I've bought a few seat cusions to no avail. Then visits to Dunelm and got various memory foams but after some amount of effort, not really solving the problem. I did some Google searches which highlighted this is a known issue for some Superb drivers as a few threads / posts on this topic. I'm 6ft and average build. 

 

I know one option is to try and get an upholsterer to rebuild the seats but again, no guarantee of success there. So my plea for help on this Foum is, has anyone who's encountered this problem found a solution that I may have missed or should consider trying? Has anyone fitted an alternative seat and if so, what make? 

 

Thanks, Roy   

[budster]

Before doing anything drastic, have you tried going through the steps in this guide:

https://www.physiomed.co.uk/uploads/guide/file/21/Physiomed_Sitting_Guide_-_Driving_Digital.pdf

[RoyF]

Thanks Budster, excellent document. Will have a fuller read of this.

Honestly though, I've been through possibly every combination of seat position settings plus the foams etc. I have a historical lower back disc injury so I guess this won't help either.

[DB72]

I have had this almost exact problem since January and tried various solutions with differing degrees of success so I feel your pain (literally).  Firstly...Is your car a dsg or manual gearbox ?

[RoyF]

DB72, mine's an auto.

 

Photo attached of my current extra foams setup. Helps somewhat but not the solution.

 

Thinking this through, it feels like the seat base is too firm, flat and wide for me, with little give and its side bolsters don't prevent me sliding around when going around a corner. So this may be overworking and straining my lower back etc muscles. The foams I've tried help the latteral sliding, more work need on the lumbar and base parts.  If I can't get this sorted soon I'll have to seriously consider looking for another car and take the loss on the chin. Gutting as every other aspect of the Superb is fantastic.

[UndertheRadar]

Quite a few years ago I severely damaged my spine in two places. So I get very finicky about comfortable seats. I find the seat more than comfortable, but the car itself rolls that much in Normal suspension setting that as you say, you have to hold yourself in the seat. This sets off my lower back and eventually my neck and leg goes on me. 
I have fixed this problem with an uprated rear anti roll bar. Sounds like a boy racer type fix, but it prevents the roll that necessitates the need to try and hold yourself on bends and turns. 
The seat I have quite low, with the base slightly raised at the front and the backrest is quite straight with very little recline. Wheel is up and out towards me, which leaves my wrist sitting nicely on the top of the rim. 

[DB72]

4 minutes ago, RoyF said:

DB72, mine's an auto.

 

Photo attached of my current extra foams setup. Helps somewhat but not the solution.

 

 

I don't think there is an ideal solution I'm afraid.  It seemed to me that due to the accelerator pedal being a bit too far to the right compared to the seat being pushed to the left (due to right hand drive conversion), the right side seat base bolster was pushing my right leg/hip up, resulting in hip discomfort.  I found that the further back I had the seat base, the less of a problem it was (apart from steering wheel not extending far enough out) and also if I had the seat base tilted back that made it worse.  It seems that if I get myself sat in just the right position in/on the seat then it's actually quite comfortable (until the next time I get in and I'm not quite in the right place again).  I have found that placing the heel of my right foot quite far over to the left (sometimes almost to the left edge of the brake pedal but in front of it) helps too.  It seems that these seats are very comfortable if your body frame size/width is just right but I think if you're either too narrow or too wide it can cause this problem.

 

I also have a historical back problem so I did often wonder how much was the car the problem and how much was me, and after visiting a physio again and strengthening certain muscles the car did get a bit less uncomfortable, so yes your back problem won't be helping but I guess that isn't as easy as mine to treat if it's a disc problem rather than muscular.

 

There have been several times I have considered getting rid of the car but having been to a car supermarket to sit in various alternatives, a lot of them feel as bad (or worse) and when I get back in mine then it doesn't feel as bad and nothing else can give you as much car for the same money.

 

I have also tried to resolve the issue by making a leather trimmed and shaped cushion to effectively raise the seat base up so the base bolsters aren't as obtrusive with a view to perhaps getting a better version made professionally.  It kind of works but bugs me that I had to do it so I do keep trying to get comfortable without it.  I can try to upload a photo of the cushion if you're interested because I made two so may be able to send you one to try out just incase it works for you.

 

I still may end up going to a seat trimmer and getting them to shave off some of the seat base side bolster but am still slightly reluctant incase it still doesn't fully solve the issue.

 

 

[Redboy]

I don't suffer from a back injury or problems and I find the seats don't cause discomfort. I would hazard a guess that the flat broad seat base and leather causing these problems.  My VRS Octavia with leather seats and particularly the Golf GTI with cloth ones, had narrower bases,  and their side bolsters supported and hugged me effectively. The Superb L&K even in DCC sport mode, causes me to hold the steering wheel a bit tighter around twisting A or B roads, to prevent lateral movement, as the bolster doesn't hug me. I am 5'10" and 11 stone.  Perhaps if I was 18 stone I would might fill the seat and be held by the bolster more firmly.  It's a great car particularly regarding much lower road noise levels than my previous cars. However it's definitely more at home on straight roads, capably soaking up Britain's potholes. 

[RoyF]

1 hour ago, UndertheRadar said:

Quite a few years ago I severely damaged my spine in two places. So I get very finicky about comfortable seats. I find the seat more than comfortable, but the car itself rolls that much in Normal suspension setting that as you say, you have to hold yourself in the seat. This sets off my lower back and eventually my neck and leg goes on me. 
I have fixed this problem with an uprated rear anti roll bar. Sounds like a boy racer type fix, but it prevents the roll that necessitates the need to try and hold yourself on bends and turns. 
The seat I have quite low, with the base slightly raised at the front and the backrest is quite straight with very little recline. Wheel is up and out towards me, which leaves my wrist sitting nicely on the top of the rim. 

 

Thanks I'll revisit that seating position and see if it helps

[RoyF]

1 hour ago, DB72 said:

 

I don't think there is an ideal solution I'm afraid.  It seemed to me that due to the accelerator pedal being a bit too far to the right compared to the seat being pushed to the left (due to right hand drive conversion), the right side seat base bolster was pushing my right leg/hip up, resulting in hip discomfort.  I found that the further back I had the seat base, the less of a problem it was (apart from steering wheel not extending far enough out) and also if I had the seat base tilted back that made it worse.  It seems that if I get myself sat in just the right position in/on the seat then it's actually quite comfortable (until the next time I get in and I'm not quite in the right place again).  I have found that placing the heel of my right foot quite far over to the left (sometimes almost to the left edge of the brake pedal but in front of it) helps too.  It seems that these seats are very comfortable if your body frame size/width is just right but I think if you're either too narrow or too wide it can cause this problem.

 

I also have a historical back problem so I did often wonder how much was the car the problem and how much was me, and after visiting a physio again and strengthening certain muscles the car did get a bit less uncomfortable, so yes your back problem won't be helping but I guess that isn't as easy as mine to treat if it's a disc problem rather than muscular.

 

There have been several times I have considered getting rid of the car but having been to a car supermarket to sit in various alternatives, a lot of them feel as bad (or worse) and when I get back in mine then it doesn't feel as bad and nothing else can give you as much car for the same money.

 

I have also tried to resolve the issue by making a leather trimmed and shaped cushion to effectively raise the seat base up so the base bolsters aren't as obtrusive with a view to perhaps getting a better version made professionally.  It kind of works but bugs me that I had to do it so I do keep trying to get comfortable without it.  I can try to upload a photo of the cushion if you're interested because I made two so may be able to send you one to try out just incase it works for you.

 

I still may end up going to a seat trimmer and getting them to shave off some of the seat base side bolster but am still slightly reluctant incase it still doesn't fully solve the issue.

 

 

 

Interesting point you make that the seating realtive to wheel and pedals is not ergonomically neutral ie not all are on a common center line. That would explain in part the pulling effect I get on my lower LH buttock side. I'll try your seat position settings also and yes, please do let me see a photo of the support you made.

[RoyF]

38 minutes ago, Redboy said:

I don't suffer from a back injury or problems and I find the seats don't cause discomfort. I would hazard a guess that the flat broad seat base and leather causing these problems.  My VRS Octavia with leather seats and particularly the Golf GTI with cloth ones, had narrower bases,  and their side bolsters supported and hugged me effectively. The Superb L&K even in DCC sport mode, causes me to hold the steering wheel a bit tighter around twisting A or B roads, to prevent lateral movement, as the bolster doesn't hug me. I am 5'10" and 11 stone.  Perhaps if I was 18 stone I would might fill the seat and be held by the bolster more firmly.  It's a great car particularly regarding much lower road noise levels than my previous cars. However it's definitely more at home on straight roads, capably soaking up Britain's potholes. 

 

I guess me being on the slim side doesn't help and I agree with your assessment of the seat base design causing me to slide around. Theres no doubt that most folks who have no back issues will find the Superb's seats are fine.

[RoyF]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, these are most helpful and very much appreciated.

[freelunch]

It took quite a while before I found the seating position that suits me best. Then, I took advantage of the three memory buttons – I am the only driver. Each position is subtly different than the other two: more lumbar support, more seat tilt, seat back straighter...

 

It helps me during a long trip to change the seating position a bit.

[DB72]

22 hours ago, RoyF said:

 and yes, please do let me see a photo of the support you made.

 

Roy... These are the cushions I made which may help you.  They don't offer any lumbar support but do lift you up so the seat base side bolsters aren't as severe.  They also give extra padding to the seat base but this can be both good and bad as they may exaggerate the roll of the car because you are on more padding, but I'm happy to send you one if you want to give it a try.  I made two for the front seats but my partner doesn't use the passenger seat one so it is going spare. 

 

[RoyF]

DB72, thanks for uploading the photos and good to see how others tackle their seating issues. The support pad looks very much in keeping with the seat design and are nicely done. I think my needs require more of a LH bolster and lumber support. What I've got padded at present helps and is snug but feels awkwarly intrusive. But I'm now also convinced its as much an ergonomic alignment issue too.

 

I have an old classic Triumph Stag and have just been out on a 10 mile drive this afternoon, absolutely no back issues at all with the seats feeling nicely supportive and neutral. They are pretty basic being a 50 year old design but are comfy. 

So the more I consider this, the realisation is I may need to look for something else. When this current lockdown ends in a couple of weeks I plan to go look at a Volvo S90 and take it from there. In the meantime I will continue to try and find something that works with the foams etc.

 

 

[DB72]

20 minutes ago, RoyF said:

I plan to go look at a Volvo S90 and take it from there.

 

When I was recently weighing up potential alternatives I thought the S90 and V90 looked like a possibility, particularly as I noticed two with differing seat versions.  There was one with upright bolsters and one with flatter bolsters which I think are a bit more like old fashioned flatter seats so please come back to update this post if you do find a solution or alterative car that you find comfortable. 

[RoyF]

12 minutes ago, DB72 said:

 

When I was recently weighing up potential alternatives I thought the S90 and V90 looked like a possibility, particularly as I noticed two with differing seat versions.  There was one with upright bolsters and one with flatter bolsters which I think are a bit more like old fashioned flatter seats so please come back to update this post if you do find a solution or alterative car that you find comfortable. 

 

Yes will do. I've scheduled to view and test two S90s, a T4 Momentum and a T5 Inscription on 3rd Dec on the hopeful assumption the lockdown is lifted as planned.

[budster]

15 hours ago, RoyF said:

 

Yes will do. I've scheduled to view and test two S90s, a T4 Momentum and a T5 Inscription on 3rd Dec on the hopeful assumption the lockdown is lifted as planned.

+1 for the Volvo. In the end I decided to trade in for a V60, which has identical seats to the V90 I believe.

No issues since, seats are super comfy with a gazillion ways of adjusting and the pedals, certainly in the V60, are not offset. Rest of the car is really good too. 

A shame to get rid of the Superb as, in every other way, it lived up to it's name. 

Be interested to know how you find the V90. 

[RoyF]

Been experimenting with more foams etc and think I may have found something that works reasonably well. Certainly the best by far for me and maybe can be of help to others.

 

Piece from a 'memory' foam and cut to 500 x 230 x 52mm. Standard foam block I bought is 560 x 500 x 52mm. Cost circa £10.

 

I still use a piece of 40mm dia pipe insulation in the cavity where the seat back meets the base. Then the foam pad over this. I found that if you position the foam forward slightly so that you are sat on its lower leading edge, then this seems to be more comfy. The material stiction from the foam pad keeps it positioned relative to the seat and then it shapes itself nicely to your body shape. Really improves lateral support and stops sliding when driving around corners. 

 

The nice part about this memory foam is it'll compress to almost nothing with little load applied yet stay supportive in the other areas. I'd been using standard seat foams mostly before and of course these feel much firmer and are somewhat less compliant.

 

That said, I'll still be checking out the Volvos end of next week....

 

 

 

[DB72]

31 minutes ago, RoyF said:

31 minutes ago, RoyF said:

Been experimenting with more foams etc and think I may have found something that works reasonably well. Certainly the best by far for me and maybe can be of help to others.

 

Piece from a 'memory' foam and cut to 500 x 230 x 52mm. Standard foam block I bought is 560 x 500 x 52mm. Cost circa £10.

 

I still use a piece of 40mm dia pipe insulation in the cavity where the seat back meets the base. Then the foam pad over this. I found that if you position the foam forward slightly so that you are sat on its lower leading edge, then this seems to be more comfy. The material stiction from the foam pad keeps it positioned relative to the seat and then it shapes itself nicely to your body shape. Really improves lateral support and stops sliding when driving around corners. 

 

The nice part about this memory foam is it'll compress to almost nothing with little load applied yet stay supportive in the other areas. I'd been using standard seat foams mostly before and of course these feel much firmer and are somewhat less compliant.

 

That said, I'll still be checking out the Volvos end of next week....

 

 

 

If that's the sort of thing that helps you Roy, Argos have a "Lumbar Car Back Support Cushion" for £15 which may be of use.  I tried it and it didn't work for me but your issue seems to be different.

Edited 23 November, 2020 by DB72

[Woodside99]

Volvo seats are miles ahead of skoda.  wife has 2018 superb sportline 280  and I recently test drove a 2020 volvo V60 T5  and the seats are incredible. trouble is it doesnt have the power/speed of the 280  so I cant decide.

 

I bought a Jag XF year or so ago and the seats were  awful/terrible/disgusting - I complained to Jaguar as its a common theme also - and they couldnt care less  - gave me so much backache I sold it at a loss and went back to my 2005 saab 9-5 which is comfier and only volvos match the saab for comfort.

 

I tried a superb l&K  and seats dont have any give - sat on the car not in it - so I can understand your problem.  the volvo will sort your problem.

 

 

[RoyF]

On 24/11/2020 at 19:31, Woodside99 said:

Volvo seats are miles ahead of skoda.  wife has 2018 superb sportline 280  and I recently test drove a 2020 volvo V60 T5  and the seats are incredible. trouble is it doesnt have the power/speed of the 280  so I cant decide.

 

I bought a Jag XF year or so ago and the seats were  awful/terrible/disgusting - I complained to Jaguar as its a common theme also - and they couldnt care less  - gave me so much backache I sold it at a loss and went back to my 2005 saab 9-5 which is comfier and only volvos match the saab for comfort.

 

I tried a superb l&K  and seats dont have any give - sat on the car not in it - so I can understand your problem.  the volvo will sort your problem.

 

 

 

Coincidently I bought a Jaguar XE 18 months ago, utterly horrendous seats, even much worse than the Skoda, which again I didn't properly realise during the test drive. Like you I sold that on a few months later at a loss. 

 

Am looking forward to checking out the two Volvos next week.

[RoyF]

On 23/11/2020 at 16:22, DB72 said:

 

If that's the sort of thing that helps you Roy, Argos have a "Lumbar Car Back Support Cushion" for £15 which may be of use.  I tried it and it didn't work for me but your issue seems to be different.

 

Thanks, but like you, standard pre-made lumbar supports haven't really worked for me, hence trying the foams etc. My Skoda seat needs both extra lumbar and side bolster support.

 

I've an arrangement which makes driving acceptable for now but alas, I won't tolerate that long term.

[IJWS15]

I had a slipped lumbar disc several years ago and the only place I could sit for more than 10 minutes was in the car (a Honda Accord).  Months of exercises sorted the disc out and now my lower back is fine.

 

The lumbar support in the Superb is a little low for me but I haven't found a car that isn't, even Volvo's (and my father has had a sequence going back to the '71 144 I learned to drive on, currently he has an S90), I generally find the superb comfortable.

 

My advice would be to get the lower back problem properly sorted - See a physio, not a chiropractor.  Chiropractors business depends on repeat visits and the one I saw hadn't a clue despite being shown the MRI diagnosis of a cervical spine issue.

[RoyF]

2 hours ago, IJWS15 said:

I had a slipped lumbar disc several years ago and the only place I could sit for more than 10 minutes was in the car (a Honda Accord).  Months of exercises sorted the disc out and now my lower back is fine.

 

The lumbar support in the Superb is a little low for me but I haven't found a car that isn't, even Volvo's (and my father has had a sequence going back to the '71 144 I learned to drive on, currently he has an S90), I generally find the superb comfortable.

 

My advice would be to get the lower back problem properly sorted - See a physio, not a chiropractor.  Chiropractors business depends on repeat visits and the one I saw hadn't a clue despite being shown the MRI diagnosis of a cervical spine issue.

 

Similarly I prolapsed a compressed disc in 1992 and could write a book about subsequent treatment for that. A daily stretching routine keeps me mobile now though. I'm informed that no further treatment can improve it as such other than a vertibrae fusion which I shall give a miss. So for me I have to find an adequately supportive car seat that works.