Skoda want €1400 for a new a/c compressor

[CJay]

I visited my local dealership in my 2010 Octavia vRS to have a noisy pulley checked out, on assessment, they stated that the a/c pulley is gone and that it can't be replaced directly. Instead, the whole compressor assembly needs to be replaced.....at a cost of €1400. I've heard some mad figures coming out of dealerships but that takes the biscuit. The a/c clutch is fine I should add (I asked) so its not that.

 

Can anyone tell me if the a/c pulley is in fact built into the compressor assembly or can it be sourced and replaced separately? Alternatively, any recommendations for an alternative pump instead of the Skoda mandated option?

 

Thanks

[Breezy_Pete]

Petrol or diesel engine? (engine code if poss.)

[CJay]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Petrol or diesel engine? (engine code if poss.)

Should have mentioned...1Z3 CEGA diesel

Edited 11 December, 2020 by CJay

[Breezy_Pete]

Go to this page https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2010-663/2/260-260020/#1 (on a computer rather than a phone) and scroll a long way down the table. Your compressor part number appears to be the first of the ones starting 5N0, namely 5N0 820 803 C manufactured by Sanden, for the date range up to 12th Feb 2012.  Use that part number as the basis for researching the compressor and what can be done other than total replacement.  The diagram shows pulley as a separate part (8) but there's no part number for that in the table.

 

The table - about halfway down - refers to a 'regulating valve' part number 1K0 260 839, from which I infer that this is a clutchless, variable displacement design.

 

You do have to wonder whether an internal failure may have caused the pulley problem, but I'm sure others with more experience of this particular compressor can guide you better than I.

 

[CJay]

Thanks Wino, appreciate it. There are a few variants of the 5N0 820 803 compressor, some research on alternative manufacturers reveals cross-compatibility (C, H, HX) although one would wonder what the difference is between the variants is in terms of reliability. The model on the far has a clutch, I note your reference to the control value, the question is whether is part of the issue of unrelated.

Edited 11 December, 2020 by CJay

[Breezy_Pete]

30 minutes ago, CJay said:

The model on the car has a clutch

Are you sure?

The regulating valve basically does that job.

There is sometimes/always? a sacrificial coupling between compressor and pulley that serves to disconnect shaft from aux belt in the event of compressor seize-up, are you sure that isn't what's failed, and what you're seeing as a clutch?  There's only the one electrical connector that I can see on pictures in the page you linked above, and that is for the control valve, not an electromagnetic clutch.

[Breezy_Pete]

maybe?

[Tech1e]

Sheer plate is not the same as a clutch.

[Tech1e]

So the bigger question is has the sheer plate failed due to the screw coming loose and the splines rounding off, or has the sheer plate failed as it was designed to because the compressor has failed? Until this question is answered, you can't say what repair is required.

[CJay]

32 minutes ago, Wino said:

Are you sure?

The regulating valve basically does that job.

There is sometimes/always? a sacrificial coupling between compressor and pulley that serves to disconnect shaft from aux belt in the event of compressor seize-up, are you sure that isn't what's failed, and what you're seeing as a clutch?  There's only the one electrical connector that I can see on pictures in the page you linked above, and that is for the control valve, not an electromagnetic clutch.

 

I'm sure...in fact the clutch was replaced last year due to failure, a pertinent point that I forgot to mention...

[J.R.]

The shear plate probably hasn't failed, the garage are simply saying that it needs (= they will only fit) a new compressor.

 

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your words, stripped splines (I have suffered a few) are technically a failure of the shear plate but not as you say a failure in the way it is designed to fail.

 

I agree the OP needs to look for himself, more & more people are posting questions on the forum because they doubt the garage yet appear to believe without question what they are told.

[J.R.]

There is no clutch on that vehicle, the shear plate was probably replaced because it had stripped but failed again because the shaft splines were damaged or the replacement shear plate (or even the original splines) was not made to the original tolerances.

 

My replacement shear plate failed after about 6 months, well lets be totally accurate, I had fitted a new Chinese pump, withing 3 months the  shear plate hib stripped, rather than remove & regas I used the original OE shearplate from my old pump that I had kept as a spare, I fitted it with loctite bearing fit. I then sold the car & after 3 months the new owner reports that the aircon has stopped working, my money is on another stripped spline.

 

I speculate that your garage fitted a shear plate & called it a clutch, now it has failed they rightly say albeit using an untruth, that it needs a new pump.

 

Hope the new one is better than the one I bought, in future on any new compresors I will remove the hib & refit it with loctite & tighten the retaining nut correctly.

 

Find a garage that does not tell lies, eg we replaced the clutch (shear plate), the compressor has failed but the clutch we fitted is working fine (shear plate failed again).

Edited 11 December, 2020 by J.R.

[CJay]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

I speculate that your garage fitted a shear plate & called it a clutch, now it has failed they rightly say albeit using an untruth, that it needs a new pump.

...

Find a garage that does not tell lies, eg we replaced the clutch (shear plate), the compressor has failed but the clutch we fitted is working fine (shear plate failed again).

 

I suspect you are correct...this is what was replaced:

 

 

Good advice on a garage...

[J.R.]

Yes that is a shear plate, its relatively easy to see if the hub has stripped, run the engine (AC on or off, it does not matter) and with a bright light look down, you will see the shear plate rotating but the centre nut will be stationary, if its turning then it has not stripped.

 

Another one is cheap, £20 or so and not too hard to fit if you want to give it one last try yourself using loctite.

 

The noise that you heard is the giveaway, it can be like a tinkling of broken glass and is audible if you stop at traffic lights with a wall or shopfront on that side, more apparent to me driving on the right side of the road but it could be reversing onto your drive etc.

 

A Chinese pump is £120 or so and comes with the pulley and shear plate, fitting about an hour plus evacuation & recharge of the system, a Sanden one 2 or 3 times that but with that sort of difference there is no way of knowing if its just a badge & has come from the same factory.

 

I got mine from Maxspeedingrods.

[AndyRG]

Got this off fleebay, mechanic fitted it in just over an hour, 55 quid for pulley 70 for him to do it, 3 bolts and a clip on the pulley 

[CJay]

9 minutes ago, AndyRG said:

Got this off fleebay, mechanic fitted it in just over an hour, 55 quid for pulley 70 for him to do it, 3 bolts and a clip on the pulley 

 

Andy, out of curiosity, what was the problem with the pulley? Was it a worn spline or some other issue?

Edited 11 December, 2020 by CJay

[J.R.]

The pulley does not need replacing, you can buy just the hub & shear plate for less than half the price & it attaches with the 3 button head cap screws supplied.

 

The pulley itself is pretty bullet proof.

 

The weak point is the central shaft & splines on the compressor is a very small diameter & the splined hub is soft aluminium, the initial failure might be from the nut becoming loose or not being tightened properly, there is a history of that, I believe that my replacement hub stripped because it was not made to the same tolerances, who knows, its a gamble but not much money if you DIY and you can avoid all the expense of vacuuming down & recharging.

 

It goes without saying that you should rotate the pump shaft by hand to make sure it turns smoothly.

 

The hub is made in 2 pieces with the centre splined part staked into a recess in the boss, this can make it very hard to remove the old one and that would justify the fitting of a complete pulley & shearplate assembly by a mechanic asked to do the repair.

[AndyRG]

29 minutes ago, CJay said:

Andy, out of curiosity, what was the problem with the pulley? Was it a worn spline or some other issue?

The whole thing was knackered had stripped the inside of the pulley as well as the plate falling to bits lol 

[CJay]

On 11/12/2020 at 15:14, J.R. said:

Yes that is a shear plate, its relatively easy to see if the hub has stripped, run the engine (AC on or off, it does not matter) and with a bright light look down, you will see the shear plate rotating but the centre nut will be stationary, if its turning then it has not stripped.

 

....

 

The noise that you heard is the giveaway, it can be like a tinkling of broken glass and is audible if you stop at traffic lights with a wall or shopfront on that side, more apparent to me driving on the right side of the road but it could be reversing onto your drive etc.

 

I had a close look with a light this morning, the shear plate does not appear to be rotating - at least the black side which faces outwards is not, neither is the centre nut. I can move the plate with a screwdriver so its not locked in position.

 

That 'tinkling glass' sound is quite evident by the way...heres the video:

 

 

Edited 14 December, 2020 by CJay
add video

[J.R.]

In which case the shear plate has failed, have a close look, if the straps have fractured then the pump will have seized, it could be that the fixings have fallen out or the rivets failed.

 

Given how easily the aluminium hub can strip I question whether the shear plate is simply a cush drive coupling and has been incorrectly named, I cant see the straps shearing before the hub strips but yours might prove me wrong.

[CJay]

36 minutes ago, J.R. said:

In which case the shear plate has failed, have a close look, if the straps have fractured then the pump will have seized, it could be that the fixings have fallen out or the rivets failed.

Thanks, on inspection, the straps appear to be intact. Either way, its looking more likely that the shear plate is the problem....however it was replaced a few months back which makes me question the quality of the part (it was £20 off ebay)...

[J.R.]

The only way to tell is to remove it, you can do so leaving the pulley in place for the aux belt, with luck if the splines are intact there will be enough to grab hold of to remove the centre shaft nut, otherwise its down to butchery.

 

They are a robust part which dont take much load, the centre spline is a weak point but not the straps, rivets etc, as I said I have my doubts whether they really are a shear plate.

 

Remove the cover between the inner wing protector and the undershield and you will be able to inspect it visually.

[CJay]

I wanted to update this thread...I finally got a chance to check the compressor and I can confirm that one of the shear plate straps has broken. I attempted to remove the plate and in the process, messed up one of the hex bolt heads . I tried using a bolt extractor tool to remove the nut to no avail, there wasn't enough depth in the bolt to get good contact. Its awkward enough working in the driveway using axel stands and my gut tells me that I should bring it to a pro. The new kit I got included a hub..what are my chances of drilling out the bolt, binning the old hub and replacing both the pulley and the shear plate in one go? Is there a circlip holding it in place?

Edited 14 June, 2021 by CJay

[J.R.]

I just checked my spare pulleys & hubs, yes you can do what you propose, the hub has to be removed to access the cirlip retaining the pulley & bearing.

 

First job is to remove the centre hub shaft nut while you still have something to hold onto, hopefully the splines wont be stripped, if they are then its really difficult in situ & with limited tools & once I managed to bend the pump shaft, its a very small diameter.

 

As long as the pump shaft can turn freely when the hub is removed you have a very good chance of doing an effectve repair, use some bering fit or whatever on the splines as one of my new compressors stripped its hub & the same happened to its replacement which appeared to fit well, probably made of cheese.

[CJay]

22 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I just checked my spare pulleys & hubs, yes you can do what you propose, the hub has to be removed to access the cirlip retaining the pulley & bearing.

 

First job is to remove the centre hub shaft nut while you still have something to hold onto, hopefully the splines wont be stripped, if they are then its really difficult in situ & with limited tools & once I managed to bend the pump shaft, its a very small diameter.

 

As long as the pump shaft can turn freely when the hub is removed you have a very good chance of doing an effectve repair, use some bering fit or whatever on the splines as one of my new compressors stripped its hub & the same happened to its replacement which appeared to fit well, probably made of cheese.

Thanks JR, appreciate the insight.