IMHO the Furby handles fine for what it is. Mine's got a tuning box on it and I don't think it's beyond the standard suspension or dangerous in the slightest.

God help you if you ever drive a big engined Capri :eek:

May I suggest perhaps finding the actual limits rather than assuming it's close because there's some body roll - you may find the limit's further away than you think.

Also, as far as torque steer goes, mine never torque steered when standard (though there was a strut brace from day 1 pretty much so maybe that helps), and only now does it with the box on full and the foot to the floor!

Also' date=' as far as torque steer goes, mine never torque steered when standard (though there was a strut brace from day 1 pretty much so maybe that helps), and only now does it with the box on full and the foot to the floor![/quote']

Torque steer is normally caused by un-equal drive shaft lengths and there is not much you can do about that really.

Hi Goochie,

Actually, I did own a Capri 3.0GT and that handled without all the aforementioned of the vRS... despite that big lump up front. I don't remember it that well, but I do recall that you had to rely more on its roadholding. And that brings me to another issue - I wonder how many people are confusing handling with roadholding :(

Good comment regarding the limits. Finding the limits is exactly the point, it's simply not sensible to try given its lack of composure at less than 7 or 8 tenths. I don't think you'll find those limits until your ploughing or the car is driving you.

Incidentally, I fitted a strut brace yesterday but I'll have to wait and see if that has made any difference. I like to see how various components change things rather than bung everything on all at once and not really know which did what best.

The manner in which a car lets go at the limit is the key. My old boss had an XKR which, had phenominal levels of grip. That meant that the limit was very difficult to find, the car was well balanced but what let go first was the sideways grip of the tyres - thats something that is a little less easy to predict than a lot of body roll followed by the car feeling light (as I guess you have with the Fabia)

I guess the best way of describing the limits would be to say it is the point of no-return usually for a small hatch thats the point at which the hedge starts to seem very close to the windows.

Point of no return expertly describes it :eek:

The Capri was a TERRIBLE handling car - it was on cart springs!

I've a friend who used to have a mk1 MR2 years ago - he always laments selling it and recently had a go in a mint one with a view to buy - needless to say having driven modern (and pretty run-of-the-mill) cars the MR2 rated pretty poorly - I'm sure another go in a Capri would feel the same way. Times have changed!

It is true that your expectations change as times move on. I moved from an Integra type R to a MK4 Astra - the Astra felt pretty poor. From that I went to the Octavia which felt even worse!

Having now driven the MK5 Golf GTi and, of course the 350Z it makes me wonder if the ITR was really that good. Sure, it was at the time but I doubt it was much different to the new Focus, for example.

Know what It's a disconnected feeling some cars give you and not necessarily what it will do. Some cars you have to learn them to get the 'feeling' of what it will do: brake late, power out. Other's slow in, fast out and so on.

I drove a friends Merc SLK350 about two months ago and it's roadholding was excellent. You would have to be pushing it some to unstick it, or because of the excellence of its roadholding, find the limit of its handling. He said that he wouldn't trust it at all. Gave him an uneasy feeling that if it did let go, it would be big time trouble, despite the electronic control he said.

Modern cars such as the above have so many electronic controls. Yep, they've come a long way since some of those cars we drove that we thought were fast

For those contributing to the post... thanks! Disparaging and sarcastic remarks directed at me are regretable and speaking candidly, quite unnecessary.

Many apologies - although I did 'state' tongue in cheek at the end of my post.

The thing is 'vRS' model name or not you have to think who are the likely purchasers of a Fabia going to be? I think Skoda did a good job with the overall package when you consider who they are targetting that particular model at.

...... who are the likely purchasers of a Fabia going to be? I think Skoda did a good job with the overall package when you consider who they are targetting that particular model at.

I believe it was actually targeted at mid 30's career women - obviously those too poor to afford a Mini

I believe it was actually targeted at mid 30's career women - obviously those too poor to afford a Mini

:popcorn:

I believe it was actually targeted at mid 30's career women - obviously those too poor to afford a Mini

you would be mad to buy the mini over the fabia VRS. it's way over priced for what it is and it don't even come standard with a cd player!

I am driving a Mini cooper with S suspension and it's a really nice car but not a touch on what you get in the FABIA!

also in the mini it deos sgrip well in bends but it's way uncomfortable, gives you back ache, headaches and also it feels un nerving as it moves alot on the road due to pot holes and stuff like that.

I can also imaging if it let go just once you would be either in a hedge or the wrong way round! i'd say it was dangerous for that to happen!

I prefered the handling on my 1.2 16v dynamique clio better than the mini's as it was more comfortable and just as quick through the corners!

you would be mad to buy the mini over the fabia VRS. it's way over priced for what it is and it don't even come standard with a cd player!

I am driving a Mini cooper with S suspension and it's a really nice car but not a touch on what you get in the FABIA!

also in the mini it deos sgrip well in bends but it's way uncomfortable' date=' gives you back ache, headaches and also it feels un nerving as it moves alot on the road due to pot holes and stuff like that.

I can also imaging if it let go just once you would be either in a hedge or the wrong way round! i'd say it was dangerous for that to happen!

I prefered the handling on my 1.2 16v dynamique clio better than the mini's as it was more comfortable and just as quick through the corners![/quote']

Thing is with the Mini is it's amazing resale. I don't think any mass produced car holds it's value better.

Fabia may well have above average resale values (for the while) but the Mini is class leading at the least.

But yes, I too chose the Fabia

Thing is with the Mini is it's amazing resale. I don't think any mass produced car holds it's value better.

Fabia may well have above average resale values (for the while) but the Mini is class leading at the least.

But yes' date=' I too chose the Fabia [/quote']

true but only cos of there classic designs!

Also the mini is not a 4 seater nor is it a proper 2+2 as the back leg space is tiny and me being 5'7 there is still no space for legs!

you could buy a octy VRS for the same price as a mini cooper!

although the mini cooper S would be a great track car! but not soo good on the roads as the surfaces are not good enough to drive around a car with skateboard suspension!

I prefer the setup of suspension to be in between rock hard and soft!

I thought I would go and explore the utter tosh handling today in an objective way on one or two of may favourite roads.

Torque steer. Not a problem in the standard car. Mine shoves 280lb/ft and over 190bhp and in the first two gears you get the occasional tug through the wheel when the surface is uneven or the car is heeled over. From third up, it is fine. What it does is white line a bit, but with 205 tyres on a small front drive car, what do you expect?

Inconsistent transitions are quite noticable if you allow the weight transfer to occur too quickly. This happens in all cars, road or track. It is just how quickly you can move then about that changes. Overdriving the car is the problem and the same would apply in an F1 car if you overdrove it.

Stability at the limit. Well I tried it on bumpy B roads and smooth open roads. On the smooth open roads, the car eventually runs into understeer unless you hoik it into the corner and settle weight over the outside rear wheel. If you do this, it will keep a pretty consitent turn going with nicely balanced slip front to rear. Hoik it too quickly and the dampers let the car bounce back unloading the rear outside wheel. Again, a problem only if the car is being overdriven. Tighter primary damping would really help here. On the b roads, I tried one favourite combination. You come off a small hump back bridge at 30mph and negotitate an undulating left hander for around 100-150 yards exiting onto a gentler but equally uneven set of swithcback curves. The car is happy to exit the left hander at just a smidge over 60mph near fully loaded on the right hand rear wheel (here the extra grunt and flat torque output of the remap helps keep the weight transfer settled rearwards at higher speeds than the standard car can manage) and happy to keep the whole plot in contact with the ground through the excellently sighted swithcbacks until the straight opens out. Car happy here to build to 90-100mph on the swithcbacks with no hint of instability or imbalance. Goes exactly where you steer it. The soft suspension allows it to keep keyed into the road where my mates Cooper S would be airborne. He reckons 80 at the end of the switchbacks is too much in the Cooper S (maybe he has a bigger brain than me, but driving it, I can see why he would think this). The only bit of this road that then catches out the chassis is the broken surface uphill twisty section. Here the damping cannot respond quickly enough and the car patters and understeers if you push into the corners too much on the gas. Its the D word again.

It handles reasonably well IMO. It is not a race car, and being a light short wheelbase car with a heavy engine, it does show up as understeer if you push it too much, but on the other hand, if you adapt your drive to get the best from it, it rewards with pliant and stable handling and an ability to cover ground at a quite silly pace.

Once you get beyond the limit of adhesion, things start to go awry. The laws of physics dictate that the car will initially understeer in a neutral or on throttle condition. The weight of that engine also makes the front dig in if you lift off violently mid corner, so the car will swing quickly out at the back if you are clumsy. Having said that, we are talking about what it does when the driver has been a plum, not how it handles.

Driving it with a bit of forethought is, I find, a pretty rewarding experience. You cant just chuck it at the road and let it sort out heavy handed inputs, it wont. It will handle well if driven well. Into corner off the throttle or maybe just a hint of trail braking. Before it gets properly sideways, get it hoiked in (steer and accelerate) to transfer weight rearward and load outside rear tyre,

keep throttle subtle so as not to let front wash out. Enjoy.

Handling is a thing for which we all have our preferences. To dismiss the Fabia as Utter Tosh is just plain wrong. Now if you had said the way it handles is not to my taste....

Ann Onnymod

omg someone with a brain!

nice one Ann Onnymod!!

it is definitly true...you drive all cars the same...most cars you can transfer techniques but maybe the fabia you just have to alter things!!

good review pal!

I believe it was actually targeted at mid 30's career women - obviously those too poor to afford a Mini

:rofl:

I better not go back to a Fabia vRS then - and a fitness regime required to get rid of my manboobs, don't want to get mistaken for a 30's career woman!

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this thread is a little harsh on the car. If I drove the vRS as I would the Scooby, it'd crash, BUT if I use a little grey matter, and adapt the style of driving, it handles perfectly well, and I'm not talking about simply gripping the road.

Until someone allows me to use their P911 GT3 RS to re-gauge my views on proper handling, I'll keep saying the same, that in my opinion, for a small car with a heavy engine, it handles fine, up to and (slightly) over legal speeds, on all road types.

Nice one Ann Onnymod, as a few have said to get the best from the fabia and a lot of font wheel drive cars with heavy lumps upfront is a sutle style of driving. You just CANT chuck it at a bend and expect it to stick, set it up properly and use the correct technique and you can really crack on.

I thought I would go and explore the utter tosh handling today in an objective way on one or two of may favourite roads.

What a load of tosh. Objective means impartial. How can you be impartial when you own the very car that's the subject of the post... and a modified version at that? What you should have said was subjective, meaning personal, or slanted. And what's this about your favourite roads? It means roads you know... again, subjective. I would have been more impressed with a summary of the handling taken from roads that you didn't know. Now that would have been OBJECTIVE.

Just so happens that the timing couldn't be better to publish a real OBJECTIVE report:

I fitted a Seat strut brace on the car yesterday. Last night a friend and myself took the car for a drive to see if the strut brace had improved it. This friend is well known in Welsh rallying circles. He hadn't driven the car before, so at his request, he drove the car down a road somewhat unfamiliar to him (that he hadn't been on for quite some time). However, it is a road known to me and many others here in Wales as the Tally. His conclusion (objective) was that the car was underdamped, (compression just adequate, but rebound poor) resulting in too much pitch and roll. Changing the springs to lower the ride height might improve matters he said - but not by much, but changing both springs and shocks was the only way to go.

Compared to his own front wheel drive car - a diesel Seat - he reckoned that torque steer was more pronounced, while understeer just plain way, way too much.

Right now, it's not to my taste, nor to my colleague. But I will be working on it and post as the mods to improve it are added.

Shame about those who have to lower the tone to talk about genitalia. They obviously don't have the same size ball as ann onnymod:eek:

Excellent summary modoc!

My Fabia does most of the the things I want it to do.

it will be improved to my taste as funds allow.

Atm it will do, and overall, it's a bloody good car as standard. imho.

What you should have said was subjective, meaning personal, or slanted.

Just like your original post then?

Modoc, can I ask you a straight(ish) question?

You, with rally driving friends, and personal rally driving experience, with an apparently well-based knowledge on handling of cars of all types... why did you have the pre-conceived idea that a car based on the Polo, with a heavy steel diesel engine, short & narrow wheel-base and high roof-line, would be able to satisfy your own requirements of a sports car, for everyday use?

Do yourself a a favour; sell the vRS, get a 2nd hand de-badged 330D tourer. It'll be a sleeper and ought to handle better.

What a load of tosh. Objective means impartial. How can you be impartial when you own the very car that's the subject of the post... and a modified version at that? What you should have said was subjective, meaning personal, or slanted. And what's this about your favourite roads? It means roads you know... again, subjective. I would have been more impressed with a summary of the handling taken from roads that you didn't know. Now that would have been OBJECTIVE.

To answer your questions one at a time, I can be impartial regardless of ownership of the car. I wrote an assessment of the cars handling capabilities. I clearly stated that I felt there were inadequcies that could be rectified by improving damping (as your friend identified). Other aspects of the car are less than excellent as well, for example, the brake feel is carp near the limit. The car is modified only in the last two weeks. Prior to that it was standard for many months. Only the engine has been modified.

My favourite roads are essential to form an objective opinion. On these roads, I am able to push the car hard in relative safety and analyse its behaviour. I am able to compare how it behaves with other cars I own and have owned over the same roads and some of these are track day specced specials, some luxury saloons, so I have a broad base to refer against. I can try friends cars down there as well. If it was unknown road, it would be pointless as the experience would be in isolation and no terms of reference or previous car experience could be drawn on to form an objective comparison. It would also be dangerous as I would not go 95%+ on roads I dont know. NO ONE, no matter how talented, can safely push a car on roads they dont know, just check out how many WRC drivers go off in any given season even with a co-driver.

I write my findings as someone who has owned the car for a number of months and has taken the trouble to assess objectively and subjectively what makes it tick and how to drive it to get the best from it over a big variety of road conditions. It was incidentally a good friend over winter, a few lary grip variation induced veers off left or right (easily confused with toque steer) notwithstanding.

Just so happens that the timing couldn't be better to publish a real OBJECTIVE report:

I fitted a Seat strut brace on the car yesterday. Last night a friend and myself took the car for a drive to see if the strut brace had improved it. This friend is well known in Welsh rallying circles. He hadn't driven the car before' date=' so at his request, he drove the car down a road somewhat unfamiliar to him (that he hadn't been on for quite some time). However, it is a road known to me and many others here in Wales as the Tally. His conclusion (objective) was that the car was underdamped, (compression just adequate, but rebound poor) resulting in too much pitch and roll. Changing the springs to lower the ride height might improve matters he said - but not by much, but changing both springs and shocks was the only way to go.

Compared to his own front wheel drive car - a diesel Seat - he reckoned that torque steer was more pronounced, while understeer just plain way, way too much.

[/quote']

I concur with your friends assessment of the damping absolutely. When it has 30,000 on the clock, compression will be inadequate as well. Springs, I guess so but only at the expense of some compliance which I like in a road car. Objective is it? Well not having driven your car or his own car down this road, how can he compare the behaviour in given, known circumstnaces? He cant. He can only get a feel for how it behaves, at some decent but not full on pace.

And your friends diesel Seat? It a similarly powered and weighted item? Of course it understeers, nearly everything with a tax disc does, but driving the car with consideration to the weight up front makes it manageable. till not seeing torque steer as a problem even with 280lb/ft making its way down the driveshafts. Latest tyres are 4 of Continental Sport Contact 2.

Right now' date=' it's not to my taste, nor to my colleague. But I will be working on it and post as the mods to improve it are added.

Shame about those who have to lower the tone to talk about genitalia. They obviously don't have the same size ball as ann onnymod:eek:[/quote']

Now we are getting there. It is not to your taste and this is of coure a SUBJECTIVE aspect. Go on, admit it, the handling is fine for a warm hatch, but you just dont like it.

So how has the strut brace worked out? This you can be objective about as I am sure you took the trouble to see how it drove down a given stretch of road and after fitting repeated the route to objectively define the improvement.

I would suggest that while you have the spanners out, a set of powerflex bushes may be a good idea as well as I get the impression that the bushing contributes to a vaguenss under braking.

And I am Ann so I dont have one ball let alone two. Learn some manners before addressing a lady.

Ann Onnymod

My Fabia seems to go round corners fast enough for me to get a severe beating from the wife!