Xenon headlights - adaptive aim sticking

[nickcoll]

I am very happy with the light that comes out of my Xenon headlights when they are correctly aimed, but the offside light often sticks pointing much further to the right (maybe by 30 deg) than it should be.

 

This is most visible in misty conditions when you can sometimes see that it is pointing into the hedge of country roads rather than down the road. It doesn't do this all the time, but it is quite often incorrectly aimed. When I go round corners the aim shifts along with the nearside headlight, but still at the same incorrect angle to where it should be pointing.

 

I am confused about what is happening because I could understand it better if it was permanently stuck pointing at one angle to the right, but as I say its aim does move along with the other one as I drive down twisty roads. 

 

I have tried changing the setting for the headlights in the driving more control but that unsurprisingly doesn't make any difference.

 

Any thoughts on how to resolve this?

[langers2k]

It's suppose to...

 

It's known as city mode and should be active up to about 30mph/50kph if I remember correctly.

 

If it's working above that speed, the AFS controller might need an update. I think there were some problems with some AFS software versions...?

[varaderoguy]

Temporary Work around - put the headlights into manual mode.

[nickcoll]

4 hours ago, langers2k said:

It's suppose to...

Not sure I understand what you are saying - are you saying that the offside headlight is meant to point at 30 deg away from straight ahead, and from the direction the nearside headlight is aiming? Surely not...?

[ScoutCJB]

21 minutes ago, nickcoll said:

Not sure I understand what you are saying - are you saying that the offside headlight is meant to point at 30 deg away from straight ahead, and from the direction the nearside headlight is aiming? Surely not...?

 

The headlights have a series of modes - At certain speeds (i dont know the threshold) for town driving headlight aim changes to illuminate the sides of the road more.  Additionally at motorway speed the beams adjust up slightly to illuminate the road ahead more

Langers2K is suggesting that one light may be stuck in city mode so its purposely illuminating the side of the road more and the controller may need flashing / update.  Its a good theory.

 

Do the lights self test properly when switched on - ie they go up down / left right?

 

[ScoutCJB]

Borrowed from online 2015 manual

 

 

Edited 14 January, 2021 by ScoutCJB

[ScoutCJB]

double post - sorry

Edited 14 January, 2021 by ScoutCJB

[langers2k]

I think the image ScoutCJB only really covers high beam assist. Oh - seems like they removed it?

 

The owners manual doesn't say much:

Quote

The Xenon headlights (hereinafter referred to as just system) use the driving data to automatically ensure the for the best possible light cone in front of the vehicle.
The system will automatically operate in the following modes: urban, extra-urban, motorway, rain, fog, adjusting the lighting direction of the headlights for road illumination around bends.
The system works as long as the light switch is in position Auto.

 

This gives an idea of what the car is trying to achieve with different light modes:

 

It's somewhat limited as it can only move the two xenon projectors up/down and left/right. It can't actually change the cut off shape on an MK3 Octavia.

 

In practical terms, this means:

- urban (town) - moves the drivers headlight down and towards the opposite curb to maximise the beam width

- extra-urban (country) - normal light pattern

- motorway (expressway) - raises the lights slightly to get a longer beam

- rain/fog - does something to minimise glare, not sure exactly what

- cornering lights (dynamic swivel) - moves both headlights left/right as you go round bends

 

The behaviour you're describing tallies with urban/town/city mode and should be active to around 30mph/50kph. If it's still happening at higher speeds, then something maybe wrong with the system, possibly a software update is required.

 

So yes, I'm saying it's normal for the drivers headlight to swing right (RHD cars) at low speeds and it'll be very noticeable in mist

 

Ages ago, I logged the headlight movement on my MK2 Octavia (AFSII xenons) which clearly showed the urban, extra-urban and motorway modes plus cornering lights: https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/392736-adaptive-xenon-headlights-possible-on-fl/

[nickcoll]

Thanks for all that information, but I don't really understand why one of the headlights (only) would ever shift 30 deg to the offside, or directly into the oncoming traffic.

 

I should also have made it clear that this was not the behaviour when the car was new, that I am pretty certain that this is not the correct or normal behaviour, and that once pointing out of line it doesn't moves back to point in the same direction as the nearside light. I think the offside light is sometimes sticking in a misaligned position.

 

In the past the headlights would follow the road correctly with both lights pointing in the same direction at all times. This is no longer the case.

 

After changing the Xenon bulbs about nine months ago I did have the headlights realigned but I should say that at times prior to this I also noticed the misalignment although it is not easy to tell if you are not in misty or slightly foggy conditions (in thick fog the headlights are not on main beam so again it is less easy to tell where they are pointing).

 

I have just checked and the headlights do perform their dance after the car has started, but it seems more sluggish than it used to be. I have got so used to them doing it that I don't notice it any more. I will pay more attention over the next few days when I start the car after dark.

[ScoutCJB]

11 hours ago, langers2k said:

I think the image ScoutCJB only really covers high beam assist. Oh - seems like they removed it?

 

 

Posted the wrong pic so changed it 

 

 

Edited 15 January, 2021 by ScoutCJB

[ScoutCJB]

9 hours ago, nickcoll said:

Thanks for all that information, but I don't really understand why one of the headlights (only) would ever shift 30 deg to the offside, or directly into the oncoming traffic.

 

I should also have made it clear that this was not the behaviour when the car was new, that I am pretty certain that this is not the correct or normal behaviour, and that once pointing out of line it doesn't moves back to point in the same direction as the nearside light. I think the offside light is sometimes sticking in a misaligned position.

 

In the past the headlights would follow the road correctly with both lights pointing in the same direction at all times. This is no longer the case.

 

After changing the Xenon bulbs about nine months ago I did have the headlights realigned but I should say that at times prior to this I also noticed the misalignment although it is not easy to tell if you are not in misty or slightly foggy conditions (in thick fog the headlights are not on main beam so again it is less easy to tell where they are pointing).

 

I have just checked and the headlights do perform their dance after the car has started, but it seems more sluggish than it used to be. I have got so used to them doing it that I don't notice it any more. I will pay more attention over the next few days when I start the car after dark.

 

Why did you have to have the aim re-aligned?  There shouldn't be any issue really at all.  Additionally i thought the headlights have to be set up using software (maybe possible with VCDS) as the lights have to be put into some sort of programming mode before being adjusted - is this how they were done?

 

As the issue has been going on for a while would you say its getting worse?  Wondering if the motor that drives the projector lens is duff

[nickcoll]

7 minutes ago, ScoutCJB said:

 

Why did you have to have the aim re-aligned?  There shouldn't be any issue really at all.  Additionally i thought the headlights have to be set up using software (maybe possible with VCDS) as the lights have to be put into some sort of programming mode before being adjusted - is this how they were done?

 

As the issue has been going on for a while would you say its getting worse?  Wondering if the motor that drives the projector lens is duff

 

Re-alignment is often needed after replacing the Xenon lamps. Yes, I am sure that the headlamps were put into learn mode before adjustment (by the main dealer).

 

I think it is getting worse but I don't think the motor is duff as the beams do move together, it's just that the offside one is sometimes pointing 30 deg (or so) to the right of where it should be.

[langers2k]

9 hours ago, nickcoll said:

I don't really understand why one of the headlights (only) would ever shift 30 deg to the offside, or directly into the oncoming traffic.

 

Because that's how it's been designed to work  It's exactly as I mentioned above, to give a shorter wider beam at low speeds. It'll give better illumination of both curbs within an urban environment and won't cause glare to other drivers given it also drops the headlight slightly.

 

On my MK2 it was very noticeable regardless of weather conditions. Mostly at 20-35mph when the light would move between modes or if I stopped behind another car and I could see the light slowly return to the 'normal' position on their bumper 

 

9 hours ago, nickcoll said:

I have just checked and the headlights do perform their dance after the car has started, but it seems more sluggish than it used to be.

 

As the start up routine is working (checks the projector motors and projector position sensors) and you have no faults on the dash, it feels like the system is working normally. The AFS system is pretty good at picking up faults as it'll then enter a 'safe mode' where the lights drop to their lowest position.

 

Just now, nickcoll said:

I think it is getting worse but I don't think the motor is duff as the beams do move together, it's just that the offside one is sometimes pointing 30 deg (or so) to the right of where it should be.

 

To be honest, it feels like you've noticed something that's always been happening but now you can't un-notice it.

 

You might want to give some more information at what speeds you're noticing the effect?

 

You can also use VCDS to check for faults and log the headlights during a drive, depending where you are, a local member might be able to help 

[nickcoll]

Thanks for the helpful information.

 

I have to say that from new I never noticed it being so wide to the right at any time. Are you sure it is meant to do this when on main beam? That doesn't sound like it is appropriate really to me.

 

I can understand your suggestion that it might help at low speeds and when on dip beam, but this behaviour is happening at all speeds and on high beam as well. It doesn't move back to the straight ahead when I am travelling more quickly along normal roads, which is obviously the time when it is an issue, as effectively I only have one headlight illuminating the road ahead of the car, and the other one is shining into the offside hedgerow.

 

From what you are saying there must be two motors, one which moves the whole assembly and one which moves the lamp within that assembly in order that it can do what you say at low speeds. Does anyone know whether you can fix or replace a sticking motor that moves the lamp within the assembly?

[langers2k]

As you have bi-xenon's there is one projector per side which has two motors to move it. Both only move the projector and nothing else.

 

I doubt it's a sticking motor as there is a feedback system. If the headlight is suppose to point forwards (higher speeds) but is pointing right, the system will know and flag up a fault.

 

Obviously if the projector is flapping around on bumps etc, then a motor may have become disconnected but that seems very unlikely in your case.

 

 

Given you've confirmed it's happening at higher speeds, I'll refer you back to my original reply:

17 hours ago, langers2k said:

It's known as city mode and should be active up to about 30mph/50kph if I remember correctly.

 

If it's working above that speed, the AFS controller might need an update.

 

I'm sure I recall some other drivers having the same issue ages ago and the 'fix' was a software update for the AFS master which dictates where the headlights should point

 

[nickcoll]

15 minutes ago, langers2k said:

As you have bi-xenon's there is one projector per side which has two motors to move it. Both only move the projector and nothing else.

 

I doubt it's a sticking motor as there is a feedback system. If the headlight is suppose to point forwards (higher speeds) but is pointing right, the system will know and flag up a fault.

 

Obviously if the projector is flapping around on bumps etc, then a motor may have become disconnected but that seems very unlikely in your case.

 

 

Given you've confirmed it's happening at higher speeds, I'll refer you back to my original reply:

 

I'm sure I recall some other drivers having the same issue ages ago and the 'fix' was a software update for the AFS master which dictates where the headlights should point

 

Thanks for the above. The light is not moving around on bumps.

 

I have checked for faults being flagged up via the infotainment system but nothing shows there. I will get it hooked up to a diagnostic system and see if a fault is shown there.

 

I will also try the main dealer to see if they can update the AFS master.

 

[Ecomatt]

4 minutes ago, nickcoll said:

Thanks for the above. The light is not moving around on bumps.

 

I have checked for faults being flagged up via the infotainment system but nothing shows there. I will get it hooked up to a diagnostic system and see if a fault is shown there.

 

I will also try the main dealer to see if they can update the AFS master.

 

Mine does exactly the same and is perfectly normal operation. I can visibly see the offside light move back to a forward position when I have stopped. It is how it is designed. If you want the module updated, I would find a good independent garage who has access to the odin. A main dealer will sting you for an undate. However if no faults have flagged your lights are working fine. The sensors that check the lights are very sensitive and if the lights were not working, it would flag up a fault, no matter how out of align they were.

[ScoutCJB]

2 hours ago, nickcoll said:

 

Re-alignment is often needed after replacing the Xenon lamps. Yes, I am sure that the headlamps were put into learn mode before adjustment (by the main dealer).

 

12 hours ago, nickcoll said:

 

After changing the Xenon bulbs about nine months ago I did have the headlights realigned but I should say that at times prior to this I also noticed the misalignment although it is not easy to tell if you are not in misty or slightly foggy conditions (in thick fog the headlights are not on main beam so again it is less easy to tell where they are pointing).

 

 

Ah, you said Xenon bulbs in your other post hence why i wondered why it would need aligning.  If it went into Skoda they should have done the alignment correctly but you never know.  Out of curiosity why was it replaced and which one/s. 

 

[nickcoll]

One of them failed after about six or so years of use and I replaced both because that seemed sensible in the circumstances. The new ones seemed slightly brighter than the old ones, but it is very hard to say for certain.

[ScoutCJB]

Xenon bulbs do have a form of shelf life in that they go through a colour shift after a certain amount of usage and they will appear to be more blueish - that blueish tinge translates into less light on the road.  Do you know if you also had new bulbs when you had new lights?  To a degree you can get buildup on the parabolic lens that makes it look misted and any chips / hazing on the lights would decrease light output dependant on how bad it was.

[octavia5]

As a wild suggestion, if the nearside light in the UK are supposed to move to the left but your offside light is moving to the right are your lights perhaps set to EU mode - I believe the light setting can be changed in the info unit for when you drive on the continent.

[langers2k]

3 minutes ago, octavia5 said:

As a wild suggestion, if the nearside light in the UK are supposed to move to the left but your offside light is moving to the right are your lights perhaps set to EU mode - I believe the light setting can be changed in the info unit for when you drive on the continent.

 

Offside (drivers) moving right is correct in the UK and other RHD countries as it's to light the opposite curb/pavement. The nearside (passenger) side curb/pavement will already be well lit due to the kickup in the beam cutoff.

 

Travel mode disables all AFS functionality, drops the aim slightly and only self levels for cars with xenons 

[nickcoll]

1 hour ago, ScoutCJB said:

Xenon bulbs do have a form of shelf life in that they go through a colour shift after a certain amount of usage and they will appear to be more blueish - that blueish tinge translates into less light on the road.  Do you know if you also had new bulbs when you had new lights?  To a degree you can get buildup on the parabolic lens that makes it look misted and any chips / hazing on the lights would decrease light output dependant on how bad it was.

As I said, the bulbs/lamps were changed, not the lights. As you suggest, it is possible that the colour temperature changed with the new bulbs and that made it seem like they were brighter.

[nickcoll]

18 minutes ago, octavia5 said:

As a wild suggestion, if the nearside light in the UK are supposed to move to the left but your offside light is moving to the right are your lights perhaps set to EU mode - I believe the light setting can be changed in the info unit for when you drive on the continent.

That is not a bad suggestion, but because they never move back at higher speeds to the correct position I doubt it is the cause of the problem. It is certainly possible that there could be two faults combined - EU mode along with the motor to move the lamp within the assembly being sticky, but I am more inclined to believe that it is the motor sticking by itself. Also the left hand light definitely has the correct pattern and aim for RHD. I doubt it is possible for the two lights to be in different modes.

[ScoutCJB]

1 hour ago, nickcoll said:

As I said, the bulbs/lamps were changed, not the lights. As you suggest, it is possible that the colour temperature changed with the new bulbs and that made it seem like they were brighter.

 

Youve said the Xenon lamps needed replacing in 1 post, then later said it was the Xenon bulbs in another post.  I took lamps to be physical headlight units but I think you actually meant bulbs.

So all that was replaced was the bulbs, nothing else?  If thats the case they shouldn't have needed re aligning at all as the bulbs are held in place and there is no physical movement of the bulb.

 

If the lamps perform the start up test correctly and both lights do the same action at the same time i'd struggle to see why it then sticks when driving - or is one lamp quicker than the other?  As Langers2k says you would get a dash warning if there were issues and they would go into fault mode where the lights essentially point to the floor - that happened on my Oct 2 when moisture got into the levelling sensor plug.

 

What happens if you set headlights manually instead of Auto on the switch as Varaderoguy states - I think this turns the lighting feature off.