@sepulchrave Nail on the head.   

All cars have the OEM plugs first, and if you have a failure with them are you going to chance the same again?

If you do and the same thing happens and luckily the engine has not been wrecked will you again use what came as the OEM plugs?

 

Plug getting cooked due to the fundamental design of the head, manifold and engine management / map.

 

Yet by using different plugs from the OEM ones you can have the same engine that burned the tip then run with different plugs with a different reach that do not expire in the same way.

Better still you can run the likes of a APR Stage 1 map and the different plugs and not burn the tip off a plug and not have the excessive oil use issue.

Edited 1 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

7 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@sepulchrave Nail on the head.   

All cars have the OEM plugs first, and if you have a failure with them are you going to chance the same again?

If you do and the same thing happens and luckily the engine has not been wrecked will you again use what came as the OEM plugs?

 

Plug getting cooked due to the fundamental design of the head, manifold and engine management / map.

 

Yet by using different plugs from the OEM ones you can have the same engine that burned the tip then run with different plugs with a different reach that do not expire in the same way.

Better still you can run the likes of a APR Stage 1 map and the different plugs and not burn the tip off a plug and not have the excessive oil use issue.

What’s the bias on NGK plugs they are a good solid plug, every winter without fail (standard engine standard tune) I would get emission warning lights when booting it while using the denso plugs, it’s unfair to use the statistics of failure rates to NGk plugs because most garages fit them futhermore I doubt any plug would be able to withstand the abuse the failed plugs received with engines burning oil, gumming up the plugs on those standard rubbish coil packs , half the reason those plugs get gummed up is due to that yet when someone un biased to them comments that just because certain people don’t run them they are a waste of money , I’ll let you in on a little secret if you run the R8 coil packs you don’t have to start gapping the plugs to within an inch of there life 

8 minutes ago, thomasaspin said:

What’s the bias on NGK plugs they are a good solid plug, every winter without fail (standard engine standard tune) I would get emission warning lights when booting it while using the denso plugs, it’s unfair to use the statistics of failure rates to NGk plugs because most garages fit them futhermore I doubt any plug would be able to withstand the abuse the failed plugs received with engines burning oil, gumming up the plugs on those standard rubbish coil packs , half the reason those plugs get gummed up is due to that yet when someone un biased to them comments that just because certain people don’t run them they are a waste of money , I’ll let you in on a little secret if you run the R8 coil packs you don’t have to start gapping the plugs to within an inch of there life 

I never knew that spark plugs would cause such a debate lol. So is it best to get a new coil pack to? All I want to do is make sure my car doesn't misfire and knacker my engine up.

Nothing melts plugs faster than detonation, the coil pack upgrade together with Iridium plugs will provide the best protection against it, the new E10 unleaded fuel should also help provide additional protection.

9 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Nothing melts plugs faster than detonation, the coil pack upgrade together with Iridium plugs will provide the best protection against it, the new E10 unleaded fuel should also help provide additional protection.

Thanks. Do you have a link for the coil pack I need?

@GUESTY You do not need to uprate the standard coils.  Just need 4 correctly functioning coils.

You can uprate if you want to.

 

Like everything vRS the threads are all here to just do a search for.

People come here with issues then later they are giving advice....They learn quick.

 

It is 12 years since the Euro 5 emission SEAT Ibiza Twincharger came out there has been lots learned in that time about keeping them running well or tuning them and still keeping them running.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/425593-misfire-cylinder-four

@thomasaspinHas his R8 Coils fitted and Denso plugs, but we were let into a secret. That was they were not fit and forget.

Maybe they did need gapping.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/465359-fabia-vrs-mk2-coilpacks

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/345369-misfire

 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/324010-coil-packs-and-uprated-coils

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/416603-vrs-coil-packs

 

 

The recommended petrol is 98 Ron Super unleaded for a 1.4 TSI / TFSI m that is 98 ron.

No retailers sell 98 ron in the UK so it is 97 ron or 99 ron that is available.     

 It shows on your fuel flap.

 

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/need-help-faqs/fuel

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

12 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@GUESTY You do not need to uprate the standard coils.  Just need 4 correctly functioning coils.

You can uprate if you want to.

 

The recommended petrol is 98 Ron Super unleaded for a 1.4 TSI / TFSI m that is 98 ron.

No retailers sell 98 ron in the UK so it is 97 ron or 99 ron that is available.     

 It shows on your fuel flap.

 

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/need-help-faqs/fuel

 

Yeah I already put esso super in. So I will just get 4 denso skj20cr-a8 and that will be fine then? Any other good maintenance tips?

@GUESTYGood, the Esso is now 99 ron minimum.

 

?

How many miles has your car done.

Is it a 2012 with a CAVE or CTHE engine?

 

Just watch for any drop in the coolant level as can show the Waterpump / Supercharger Magnetic clutch might need replacing.

The 2 belts need inspecting anyway if you have the oroginal water pump and belts.

 

If tuning or modifying or upgrading Twinchargers is of interest then this is might be the best advice for those in the UK from @Mickmartin.

 

In Scotland http://ecotune-scotland.co.uk know all about Twinchargers.

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

NGK have a longer life but don't provide the same spark quality as the Denso ones. That's the difference. 

 

I can commit to changing plugs every year, so I have Denso.

That said. You will need upgraded NGK if you are mapped

@AmusedMussel

Maybe @Mickmartinwill look in on this thread and say what plugs he is now running his Stage 2 mapped twincharger with.

 

NGK as a manufacturer of spark plugs are not really the issue as many have used them for years in vehicles.

When i first started working on cars & bikes 50 years back there were Champion or NGK to choose from in garages.

 

The issue is their application with the Twinchargers and that VW Group have never admitted an issue with the OEM plugs on engines they produce that can have issues.

 

So NGK will blame 'User Error' or Dealership fitters error'  rather than addressing the Elephant in the room.  VW Group's head in the sand.

 

The NGK that many use for remapped cars are fair enough, but when used in a sporting way like track, hillclimbs, sprints or just fast driving they can have a short life.  5,000 miles or less. Or one plug can, the other 3 might be fine.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/237997-bkreix-or-bkr8eix-spark-plugs   

*Worth remembering the REVO stage 1 map was terrible and more than 1 member posting in this thread ended up with dead engines.

There were posts / threads about actions concerning REVO being deleted from this forum.*

My post at bottom of page 1, 13th October 2013.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/246959-ngk-bkr-7eix-2667

 

A NGK bkr6eix thread.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/340481-anybody-tried-them

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

What I've said is still true. Across numerous applications the consensus is a cleaner and higher powered spark from the Denso spark plugs, but they don't have as long a life.

 

You can apply that knowledge to a twincharger and make a judgement call for yourself really. Would rather my car had no misfires at all for a solid year than i could run it for 2 years and it'll miss a beat occasionally.

 

Side note though: I've never known an engine be so affected by different brands of fuel before. I had to fill with 97 Esso the other day, had no 99 nearby and it HATES it. Even with the Denso plugs (about 3k old) it misfires a smidge on idle (not picked up with a OBD, but I can hear it)

 

The uprated NGK plugs are a recommendation of most mapping companies, wouldn't stray from that. That's all I meant by running them on a remapped car.

@AmusedMusselIs the ESSO Super Unleaded in your area not now 99 ron (Minimum) ?

 

 

Can you explain please why you say DENSO plugs do not have such a long life as NGK plugs?

 

The Service Life of the NGK's or the DENSO is said to be 60,000 miles.   The VW Group Service Schedule for Spark Plugs is given as 40,000 miles / 4 years / 2nd major service.

 

Plugs can go 40,000 miles or 60,000 miles.   

They might not be lasting that long in a 1.4TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW, or a remapped engine. 

 Or 1 plug might not.

I had 4 DENSO plugs that were in a Twincharger for 30,000 miles & it was running stage 1,

using 99 ron and occasionally 102 ron.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/426905-2013-vrs-dead-any-advice

 

95 Unleaded or 97/99 Super Unleaded.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/314283-super-unleaded-and-normal

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

I ran denso for almost a year at a gap of 0.4mm as the plugs implied on the box the gap should not be adjusted and they did run fine for probably 8 months or so then the misfires started back so moved to NGK BKR7(2667) and haven’t really looked back, no misfires, no rough idle and most likely   by pure luck Ive never had an coil issues. 
 

Went stage 2 in December 2019 and was recommended by RTMG that I gap the NGK’s to 0.8mm as I was running more power  so I immediately done so and all was good, never had any issues whatsoever apart from clutch slip in 2nd gear when red lined in “s mode”, that is solved by changing gear a bit earlier and rarely cause me issues.

 

I had a friend running stage 2 by Ecotune on his forged 1.4 tfsi running 280 bhp, early teething problems seen him returning back to Ecotune to get the map adjusted a couple of time but they did sort eventually, credit to them. 
 

Again I can only go on my experience with plugs on these cars and from what knowledge I’ve learned online from other users and I wouldn’t discredit Denso however personally it would be NGK for me as I’m running R8 coils with the BKR7’s these days without a hitch, I never gapped these new plugs as left them at 0.6mm with the new coils and they have been absolutely fine.

 

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by Mickmartin

11 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@GUESTY You do not need to uprate the standard coils.  Just need 4 correctly functioning coils.

You can uprate if you want to.

 

Like everything vRS the threads are all here to just do a search for.

People come here with issues then later they are giving advice....They learn quick.

 

It is 12 years since the Euro 5 emission SEAT Ibiza Twincharger came out there has been lots learned in that time about keeping them running well or tuning them and still keeping them running.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/425593-misfire-cylinder-four

@thomasaspinHas his R8 Coils fitted and Denso plugs, but we were let into a secret. That was they were not fit and forget.

Maybe they did need gapping.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/465359-fabia-vrs-mk2-coilpacks

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/345369-misfire

 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/324010-coil-packs-and-uprated-coils

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/416603-vrs-coil-packs

 

 

The recommended petrol is 98 Ron Super unleaded for a 1.4 TSI / TFSI m that is 98 ron.

No retailers sell 98 ron in the UK so it is 97 ron or 99 ron that is available.     

 It shows on your fuel flap.

 

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/need-help-faqs/fuel

 

The denso plugs where gapped to 0.6mm on standard coil packs you absolute helmet 

@thomasaspin You must remember well when you had not even managed to get to be a helmet.  You managed to have some howlers.

You should remember what you had when having issues.

 

 

Edited 2 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

On 02/02/2021 at 10:59, e-Roottoot said:

@AmusedMusselIs the ESSO Super Unleaded in your area not now 99 ron (Minimum) ?

 

 

Can you explain please why you say DENSO plugs do not have such a long life as NGK plugs?

 

The Service Life of the NGK's or the DENSO is said to be 60,000 miles.   The VW Group Service Schedule for Spark Plugs is given as 40,000 miles / 4 years / 2nd major service.

 

Plugs can go 40,000 miles or 60,000 miles.   

They might not be lasting that long in a 1.4TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW, or a remapped engine. 

 Or 1 plug might not.

I had 4 DENSO plugs that were in a Twincharger for 30,000 miles & it was running stage 1,

using 99 ron and occasionally 102 ron.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/426905-2013-vrs-dead-any-advice

 

95 Unleaded or 97/99 Super Unleaded.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/314283-super-unleaded-and-normal

 

 

 

 

Aye it was a 97 RON fuel, because I cringed a little when I realised it was the only one around. Normally fill with Momentum.

 

Every car forum has the exact same discussion. NGK vs. Denso.

I tend to stick to Denso as its widely accepted that they burn hotter but not for as long. And I am perfectly capable of changing my own plugs. 

 

Had the exact same discussion on the 350Z forum, the GT86/BRZ forum and interestingly enough a Mazda3 forum. 

It was this station in Accrington. Definitely said 97 on the nozzle.

Uprated coil packs are a wise precaution, they'll give a more consistent and fatter spark, particularly at high RPM where any misfire will become detonation and quickly melt the plug ground, the Iridium electrode itself is not generally the point of failure, it's an artifact of stratified direct injection coupled with high boost pressures, these engines run so lean that detonation is almost certain once the ECU loses control of the point of ignition.

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

Uprated coil packs are a wise precaution, they'll give a more consistent and fatter spark, particularly at high RPM where any misfire will become detonation and quickly melt the plug ground, the Iridium electrode itself is not generally the point of failure, it's an artifact of stratified direct injection coupled with high boost pressures, these engines run so lean that detonation is almost certain once the ECU loses control of the point of ignition.

Another reason why fuel is very important^

run mine on both fuels, it's happy with either.

They run rich when cold and just bumbling around, especially a CAVE vRS on the factory engine management / map.

 

Hence healthy ones often have a sooty tail pipe and after giving them a bit of hard acceleration there can be a blast of soot out of the exhaust system if it has not been getting much of accelerations going on for a while.

 

The issue is often below 3,500 rpm under hard acceleration so with supercharger and turbo both in use.

 

95 ron being used might never be an issue to the driver and plenty run just that and could not care less.

Plenty had issues running 95 ron, or 97, or 98 when you got it, or with 99. 

But when you had the plugs oiling, then 3 cleaning with some driving and heat the one plug that gets carboned up it the one that is prone to failure.

 

Not anecdotal just how it has been for over a decade now.

 

There have been cases of standard twinchargers failing a MOT, even a first MOT if not done at a Skoda Dealership MOT Station, 

even failing at a MOT station and passing if retested at a Skoda or VW Dealership. 

People learn after it happens once.

 

Then Modified / remapped ones can have a failure, or sometimes a examiner says the car has been modified even when not.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/480567-14-twin-charged-emissions-failure

 

 

I see an old car i had failed a MOT yet again on the examiner not knowing it had side / position light that are also the DRL's, 

and again they failed it on emissions.

When i had it and the examiner tried to fail it because it had a decat which it did not i just changed the switchable APR map and said go try it again. 

That was a pass.  As were the sidelights,

 

Edited 3 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

13 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

They run rich when cold and just bumbling around, especially a CAVE vRS on the factory engine management / map.

 

Hence healthy ones often have a sooty tail pipe and after giving them a bit of hard acceleration there can be a blast of soot out of the exhaust system if it has not been getting much of accelerations going on for a while.

 

The issue is often below 3,500 rpm under hard acceleration so with supercharger and turbo both in use.

 

95 ron being used might never be an issue to the driver and plenty run just that and could not care less.

Plenty had issues running 95 ron, or 97, or 98 when you got it, or with 99. 

But when you had the plugs oiling, then 3 cleaning with some driving and heat the one plug that gets carboned up it the one that is prone to failure.

 

Not anecdotal just how it has been for over a decade now.

 

This is nuts, if they run as rich as you say then they'd never pass an MOT.

Full boost and hard acceleration makes sense as that's when the mixture would be leaning off the most and therefore the hardest to ignite leading to detonation.

My read of the oiling up would be due to localised overheating of the piston crown leading to pinched rings and smeared ring lands.

Bear in mind I've seen just about every kind of engine failure mode there is with both two and four stroke engines over four decades and I can tell you there's nothing new under the sun.

Yes, there's no science in wittering on about plug brands, it's all anecdotal.

@sepulchrave  Nail on the head, some did not.   

But take them in hot and the mot is done with the engine running so hot when it goes on the rollers and then gets the probe up the tail pipe then an easy pass.

 

Or if  a fail, take it out get it to operating temp and in and retest and a pass.

 

What makes a difference is actually running cars and getting them tested or just sitting and saying to some one that is nuts.

 

You have seen everything under the sun, have you ever opened the bonnet of a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW twincharger or even driven one?

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/480357-over-fuelling-emissions-high-cave

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/317251-skoda-fabia-rs-2012-rough-idle

 

 

A 1.2 TSI. so OT.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462665-mot-failure-fast-iddle-emissions

 

 

Lucifers Ultimate Guide Part 1 & 2 are in the pinned thread at the top of the Mk2 Fabia Section if anyone fancies reading it.

 

 

 

Edited 3 February, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

27 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@sepulchrave  Nail on the head, some did not.   

But take them in hot and the mot is done with the engine running so hot when it goes on the rollers and then gets the probe up the tail pipe then an easy pass.

 

Or if  a fail, take it out get it to operating temp and in and retest and a pass.

 

What makes a difference is actually running cars and getting them tested or just sitting and saying to some one that is nuts.

 

You have seen everything under the sun, have you ever opened the bonnet of a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW twincharger or even driven one?

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/480357-over-fuelling-emissions-high-cave

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/317251-skoda-fabia-rs-2012-rough-idle

 

 

A 1.2 TSI. so OT.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462665-mot-failure-fast-iddle-emissions

 

 

No, I'm not really a 'driver' per se, but I can fix anything that has moving parts.

 

What's nuts is that you just WILL NOT permit any view that varies slightly from your own, and that your own view is based upon historical ownership of one of these mythological beasts together with masses of anecdotes gathered from the Internets, then randomly pasted and smeared over every thread you consider faintly relevant.

 

My experience is that an engine is an engine and that I'll work on anything if it pays properly.

 

My guess is you that needed professional help back then and that it cost you a lot of money.