Hi Guys,

 

I took my car into a garage last year for some work to be done and the mechanic swapped the wheels front to back which I'd never done before and since then then wheels have been shaking.

 

I then took it to a tyre shop for all 4 wheels to be rebalanced, didnt fix it, then I returned, they said I had a buckle in a couple of the alloys which makes no sense because I didn't feel it at all before and the mechanic says there's nothing to be found wrong with the car otherwise. I eventually went back to the tyre shop a couple of times for rebalancing because the tyre shop said the weights keep falling off and VW alloys don't hold weights properly which STILL hasn't fixed the problem which made me think it was tyre related.

 

So I waited until the tyres were worn out and in need of replacement and hoped for the best. Now I have two brand new front tyres on, its 10x worse!!!

 

I know its a long shot but does anyone have any ideas what's wrong? Its due in for a clutch & flywheel on thursday and i'm not a huge fan of the idea of paying the best part of £1,000 for this shaking to continue.

 

Thanks in advance,

Tom

Edited 23 March, 20215 yr by Tomjones1995

If the rear alloy()s were damaged, IE had a buckle you would be at pains to notice it on the rear, although the vibration would still be there and might cause rear wheel bearing failure.

 

Moving the rear wheels to front of car has simply made the buckled alloy(s) noticeable. 

 

You seem to have ruled out the tyres. Flat spots from an emergency brake will produce same effect as a buckled alloy, so new tyres won't have this.

 

I suspect it is not the wheel balancing. I have lost weights on newly sprayed alloys and it didn't make too much difference compared to buckled alloys. The bigger inch the alloy the worse the effect.

 

You could take the wheels to spin them on wheel balance machine. Use flat screwdriver to get out stone chips out of tread.

 

Even a slight buckle will show a wobble and to be honest I would send it to scrap yard and look for a new alloy(s) (pair).

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

If the rear alloy()s were damaged, IE had a buckle you would be at pains to notice it on the rear, although the vibration would still be there and might cause rear wheel bearing failure.

 

Moving the rear wheels to front of car has simply made the buckled alloy(s) noticeable. 

 

You seem to have ruled out the tyres. Flat spots from an emergency brake will produce same effect as a buckled alloy, so new tyres won't have this.

 

I suspect it is not the wheel balancing. I have lost weights on newly sprayed alloys and it didn't make too much difference compared to buckled alloys. The bigger inch the alloy the worse the effect.

 

You could take the wheels to spin them on wheel balance machine. Use flat screwdriver to get out stone chips out of tread.

 

Even a slight buckle will show a wobble and to be honest I would send it to scrap yard and look for a new alloy(s) (pair).

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for replying.

 

What I can't understand is how can it be worse after the tyres are replaced? That part of it makes no sense to me

Maybe the extra weight of the new tread made it worse?

Or are the new wheels Extra Load XL?

If vrs 16" spider alloys 205 45 16 I believe the load values are 83 (no side wall reinforcement) or 87 (with reinforcement, XL).

 

Just now, bmbmdmb said:

Maybe the extra weight of the new tread made it worse?

Or are the new wheels Extra Load XL?

If vrs 16" spider alloys 205 45 16 I believe the load values are 83 (no side wall reinforcement) or 87 (with reinforcement, XL).

 

Yes they are XL. Does that make a difference?

A bit of guess work but...XL would keep their shape to the alloy better. If the alloy is warped then they would follow and keep their warped shape better, perhaps? Plus heavier (making the wobble worse). Imagine a centrifuge unbalanced (or washer with too much weight one side), it will shake badly.

 

The non XL tyre will have more plyability/deform better keeping s more circular shape?

 

On a side note

  I have had XL and non XL wheels and the non XL accelerate better due to less weight in tyre. There is a noticeable difference in weight.

If you get a flat tyre on non XL and continue to drive then your alloys will be wrecked (50p) as the circle becomes a poly sided shape.

I would start looking for new alloys and if the seller offers to drop them off at your house I would walk away as there is no come back.

11 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

A bit of guess work but...XL would keep their shape to the alloy better. If the alloy is warped then they would follow and keep their warped shape better, perhaps? Plus heavier (making the wobble worse). Imagine a centrifuge unbalanced (or washer with too much weight one side), it will shake badly.

 

The non XL tyre will have more plyability/deform better keeping s more circular shape?

 

On a side note

  I have had XL and non XL wheels and the non XL accelerate better due to less weight in tyre. There is a noticeable difference in weight.

If you get a flat tyre on non XL and continue to drive then your alloys will be wrecked (50p) as the circle becomes a poly sided shape.

 

I'm guessing the XL's would be better on the back then?

 

And what's your thoughts on alloy wheel reconditioning?

 

Thanks

Edited 23 March, 20215 yr by Tomjones1995

XL good for cornering, carrying heavier loads, trailers. I think most of weight in Fabia VRS diesel is up front though.

 

You will still have a problem at rear if you put to back just less vibration. 

 

Alloy wheel reconditioning - not sure. Wouldn't heating and cooling weaken the alloy. Probably expensive.

 

I think 16" alloys are a lot cheaper than 18" (half price). I bought a second set for winters and got 4 good ones for £250 with two ok tyres. Needed refurb that I did myself. 

 If someone selling then agree to take to tyre balance shop and slip them some money to spin them. The tyre balance machine will often state whether they can be balanced or not. But you will see a wobble side to side if the alloy is bent and will cause problems on your car.

 

Clutch flywheel kit  cost £650 fitted when I got mine done

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

XL good for cornering, carrying heavier loads, trailers. I think most of weight in Fabia VRS diesel is up front though.

 

You will still have a problem at rear if you put to back just less vibration. 

 

Alloy wheel reconditioning - not sure. Wouldn't heating and cooling weaken the alloy. Probably expensive.

 

I think 16" alloys are a lot cheaper than 18" (half price). I bought a second set for winters and got 4 good ones for £250 with two ok tyres. Needed refurb that I did myself. 

 If someone selling then agree to take to tyre balance shop and slip them some money to spin them. The tyre balance machine will often state whether they can be balanced or not. But you will see a wobble side to side if the alloy is bent and will cause problems on your car.

 

Clutch flywheel kit  cost £650 fitted when I got mine done

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice 👍

 

I'l try and take the car tomorrow morning to a tyre shop to find out if there is indeed a buckle on any of the alloys because I agree with you it's looking likely.

 

I also did have for a while like a sort of pulsating 'thud this thud when braking hard which I put down to warped discs on front but perhaps it's been buckled alloys all this time.

 

I'l keep you posted

 

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated

Okay, so I've been to another tyre shop today to confirm that their is in fact a buckle on BOTH front alloys though only slight (I watched them balance it myself as proof) and they rebalanced them as well for me but their is still a shaking??

 

Could there be anything else or is it just the slight buckle of the two fronts?

 

Thanks,

Tom

If the wheels are buckled then that explains everything, you didn't notice when they were on the back but left like that would have worn the tyres and wheel bearings much faster.

I'm puzzled as to why they'd try and balance buckled wheels. Balancing them is a waste of time because they are toast.

19 minutes ago, TMB said:

I'm puzzled as to why they'd try and balance buckled wheels. Balancing them is a waste of time because they are toast.

 

Tyre fitters are mindless automata, it's still possible for the wheel to be rotationally balanced even though it wobbles.

41 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

If the wheels are buckled then that explains everything, you didn't notice when they were on the back but left like that would have worn the tyres and wheel bearings much faster.

Yeah it certainly seems that way. The original tyre shop I went to informed me this morning that all of my alloys have buckles so if that's to be believed, then perhaps the alloys which are now on the rear are in better condition than the fronts which as you say, would explain why I didn't feel it until now.

 

8 minutes ago, TMB said:

I'm puzzled as to why they'd try and balance buckled wheels. Balancing them is a waste of time because they are toast.

Completely agree, they mentioned last year that I had a buckle on one front wheel, so I went and swapped it with the full size spare in the boot which they reckoned at the time was good BUT that alloy is the worst one now! 

 

Safe to say guys, i'l be deciding pretty soon whether to replace or recondition these alloys ASAP

 

9 hours ago, Tomjones1995 said:

I'll be deciding pretty soon whether to replace or recondition these alloys ASAP

 

I'm not surprised they are all buckled. 205/45R16 tyres are not suitable for UK roads...there's too many potholes. The low sidewalls don't provide the rims with enough cushioning...hence all the buckles.

 

With the 1.9TDI I would go for something like this with 195/55R15 (or oversize 195/60R15) tyres. The 5.5Jx15 ET40 rims are a standard fitment on the latest VW Polo. The ride will be so much more comfy and potholes won't bend the rims.

 

Alcar 4055 5.5Jx15 ET40 5/100 57.1 Steel Rim

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-4055#20346887

 

	ALCAR 4055
Rim type	5-hole steel wheel
Size	5½ x 15
Bolt pattern	5 x 100.00 x 57.00
Offset	40.00

mytyres.co.uk price £ 34.⁴⁰

 

Vredestein Quatrac 195/60R15 88H

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m138b0s7993p202144/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_-_195_60_R15_88H_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

 

 

Edited 25 March, 20215 yr by Carlston

18 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

I'm not surprised they are all buckled. 205/45R16 tyres are not suitable for UK roads...there's too many potholes. The low sidewalls don't provide the rims with enough cushioning...hence all the buckles.

 

With the 1.9TDI I would go for something like this with 195/55R15 (or oversize 195/60R15) tyres. The 5.5Jx15 ET40 rims are a standard fitment on the latest VW Polo. The ride will be so much more comfy and potholes won't bend the rims.

 

Alcar 4055 5.5Jx15 ET40 5/100 57.1 Steel Rim

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-4055#20346887

 

	ALCAR 4055
Rim type	5-hole steel wheel
Size	5½ x 15
Bolt pattern	5 x 100.00 x 57.00
Offset	40.00

mytyres.co.uk price £ 34.⁴⁰

 

Vredestein Quatrac 195/60R15 88H

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m138b0s7993p202144/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_-_195_60_R15_88H_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice, but steel rims aren't for me. I'd be leaning more towards buying second hand like for like replacements for my existing alloys.

 

 

Thanks for the help,

Tom

4 hours ago, Tomjones1995 said:

 

Thanks for the advice, but steel rims aren't for me. I'd be leaning more towards buying second hand like for like replacements for my existing alloys.

 

 

Thanks for the help,

Tom

 

My comments apply to both steel and alloy rims.

 

Edited 26 March, 20215 yr by Carlston

12 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

My comments apply to both steel and alloy rims.

 

Oh right, In that case I'll bear it mind.

 

Thanks again,

Tom

Try a set of these, Tom ....

 

 

Had the same, the much higher loads on the front tyres, weight and weight transfer magnified the tyre weakness, thought my newish wishbone bushes may have gone at first (was shaking down hill) had them balanced and put on rear and new on front, OK now

On 26/03/2021 at 16:16, TMB said:

Try a set of these, Tom ....

 

 

Only just seen your message haha. I could make my own each year after the winter

On 02/04/2021 at 08:09, anton said:

Had the same, the much higher loads on the front tyres, weight and weight transfer magnified the tyre weakness, thought my newish wishbone bushes may have gone at first (was shaking down hill) had them balanced and put on rear and new on front, OK now

Yeah my alloys didn't buckle until I changed my mechanic to a chap who lives nearer to home.

He's down the beaten track a bit and the road is TERRIBLE! Safe to say I've reported it to the council and hopefully they'll resurface it now so I don't have to change mechanics again because he's a good lad.

 

I've also done front to back a few times including with these XL tyres and it's still hurrendous to the point one of my droplink nuts unscrewed itself!

 

Out of curiosity, a question to everyone, what size alloys are compatible for a MK1 fabia/ Polo 9n platform?

 

Would running 17" or 18" be an issue for the Speedo?

 

Thanks in advance,

Tom

2 hours ago, Tomjones1995 said:

Out of curiosity, a question to everyone, what size alloys are compatible for a MK1 fabia/ Polo 9n platform?

 

5/100 57.1 Alloy Rims

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/hlinikove-disky/c/alloyWheels?q=%3AscoreDesc%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BII%2B%282006-2010%29%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BII%2B%282010-2014%29%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BIII%2B%282014%2B%29%3AcarType%3ARapid%2B%282012-2020%29%3AcarType%3AScala%2B%2F%2BKamiq%2B%282019%2B%29%3AcarType%3ARoomster%2B%282006-2010%29%3AcarType%3ARoomster%2B%282010-2015%29%3AcarType%3AKamiq%2B%282019%2B%29%3AcarType%3AScala%2B%282019%2B%29&text=#

12 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

5/100 57.1 Alloy Rims

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/hlinikove-disky/c/alloyWheels?q=%3AscoreDesc%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BII%2B%282006-2010%29%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BII%2B%282010-2014%29%3AcarType%3AFabia%2BIII%2B%282014%2B%29%3AcarType%3ARapid%2B%282012-2020%29%3AcarType%3AScala%2B%2F%2BKamiq%2B%282019%2B%29%3AcarType%3ARoomster%2B%282006-2010%29%3AcarType%3ARoomster%2B%282010-2015%29%3AcarType%3AKamiq%2B%282019%2B%29%3AcarType%3AScala%2B%282019%2B%29&text=#

 

Thanks for the link 👍

 

Does changing the alloy wheel size affect the accuracy of the speedo at all do you know?