My standard clutch on 28k miles can't quite handle the power of my stage one remap anymore, as there are times when there is a momentary slip. How does the standard clutch of my VRS compare with a Golf R one? I know I may need to go Helix or Sachs performance clutch to handle the torque, but I am trying to resist that if possible. As the Golf R has a similar engine, but comes out of the box with around 300bhp, I just wondered whether the clutch from the golf would fit in my Octavia? If so, I would have thought it could handle the torque my mapped engine and then I would not have the problem of a stiffer clutch pedal a performance clutch gives you. I have a feeling I will have no choice but to go with a performance clutch, but maybe the more knowledgeable of you out there might know the answer. 

Any uprated clutch will slip under exactly the same circumstances when yours does unless the clutch bleed block AKA clutch peak torque limiter is removed or modified.

 

I bet you it slips when you bring up the clutch pedal faster than normal, be it dumping the clutch for a drag start, snatching an upshift or simply accelerating across a junction to avoid inconveniencing oncoming traffic.

 

The way VAG protects your transmission is to make the clutch slip.

 

"Simply (not) clever"!

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Any uprated clutch will slip under exactly the same circumstances when yours does unless the clutch bleed block AKA clutch peak torque limiter is removed or modified.

 

I bet you it slips when you bring up the clutch pedal faster than normal, be it dumping the clutch for a drag start, snatching an upshift or simply accelerating across a junction to avoid inconveniencing oncoming traffic.

 

The way VAG protects your transmission is to make the clutch slip.

 

"Simply (not) clever"!

Hi JR. No, I don't actually race the clutch up at all.  It momentarily slips if you use the torque of the engine to gain speed in a higher gear with the clutch already up, so I try to avoid doing that of course and I drop it down a gear or two to accelerate instead. If you really floor the gas pedal in a lower gear, there is the odd time when you can just hear the clutch slip a fraction, again with the clutch already up. Most of the time though in lower gears under power, no slip at all. But of course, it will only get worse in the future, that is why I wondered about the Golf R clutch.   

This may help

 

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/golf-r-clutch.343945/

 

I’ve had a revo stage 1 for 40k and not seen any clutch slip at all. The car is on 110k on the same clutch. 
 

i don’t think i have a special clutch, I think its more down to the quality of the remap. With revo I was able to specify I wanted max torque further down the rev range and they were able to do this (Vas motion). 
 

i know I keep hearing people saying the clutches can’t take a remap but we all have the same clutch. The only two differences are the quality of the remap and the use of our right foot! 

The VAG clutches for the petrol TSI engines are not good.  On my previous Red VRS, we had to get the clutch replaced (bite too high and slipping) and the car had only done 32k miles.

I suspect the clutches for the 230 were never designed for the additional power, so any spirited starts or rapid stop/starting will cause them to slip.

Clutch upgrades seem to be a normal thing.

12 hours ago, roaddetective said:

My standard clutch on 28k miles can't quite handle the power of my stage one remap anymore [...] I know I may need to go Helix or Sachs performance clutch to handle the torque[...]. 

I'll be following you down this route, although it's likely it'll be a Sachs performance clutch at this rate. If I'm going to be spending the money on the labour for the garage to remove subframe, gearbox etc., I'd want peace-of-mind that it'll handle the additional torque and not have to be taken out for a while.

 

Saving up for the work probably next year, as at the moment it is very occasional slip - as you say, in higher gears under heavier acceleration. Not often, but it's always in the back of my mind in 4th doing 50mph and pushing the foot down...

Golf R also has weak clutch, and this part is the reason behind its engine is cut at 380Nm, much lower then DSG engine.

 

Stage 1 for RS is usually above 450Nm (some are measured above 500Nm), so you have to go to Sachs Performance or similar (I don't have experience with other). 

 

Take into consider the pedal will be much heavier, and engaging clutch on first and revers will be a bit different, sometimes jerky. This is probably the reason why manuals have lower torque, so they can fit clutch which is soft enough for an average driver.

 

Nevertheless, pros/cons, put the stronger clutch and never look back. Stage1 is pointless with OE clutch in your case.

Oh well guys, it looks like a performance clutch in the near future. I will probably get used to the heavier pedal in time. Hell, I used to drive HGV's in the late 70s and all through the eighties and the pedals were heavy and I got used to those. Thanks for posting back on this guys. When I eventually get the new clutch fitted, I will put some feedback about it on here.  

Just booked the car into VW Group specialists Swindon on the 13th of September for a full Helix clutch kit including a new DMF. He is also fitting a braided hose that goes to the slave cylinder that allows more fluid through and gives the clutch pedal a more OEM feel. Will report my findings once it has all been fitted.

24 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

He is also fitting a braided hose that goes to the slave cylinder that allows more fluid through

 

I'm all ears!

 

FWIW, I've had 3 manual Octavias, all remapped. mk2 pre FL OE clutch was fine, mk2 FL needed an upgraded clutch (and was very very heavy); both were Shark remaps. Mk3 pre FL diesel OE clutch, no issues.

On 16/08/2021 at 09:54, nidza said:

 

I'm all ears!

 

 

Yes that made me laugh as well

 

I know from personal experience (incompetence) that if the hose does not allow all the fluid displaced by the master cylinder to pass then the spindly plastic master cylinder pushrod will snap like a Twiglet. - I had forgotten to release the clamp on the flexible hose after reconnection before bleeding the system.

 

The flexible hose does not present any restriction to the system, the clutch bleed block AKA peak torque limiter has a tiny metered orifice on the return stroke and is very restrictive on the disengage stroke when the poppet valve opens.

 

These same scammers that are selling you something you have no need of saying it will give you more of an OEM feel would say the opposite when trying to sell you braided brake hoses.

 

Compared to a brake system there is barely any pressure in the clutch hydraulic system.

On 16/08/2021 at 09:54, nidza said:

 

I'm all ears!

 

The hose in question is called a braided line billet bleed block, which is £250 on it's own. Just got the details of it when they sent the rather large bill I will be paying. I will just have to trust the garage on this one. 

Edited 17 August, 20214 yr by roaddetective

4 hours ago, stever750 said:

FWIW, I've had 3 manual Octavias, all remapped. mk2 pre FL OE clutch was fine, mk2 FL needed an upgraded clutch (and was very very heavy); both were Shark remaps. Mk3 pre FL diesel OE clutch, no issues.

My last car was a 2011 Mk2 fl Octavia VRS TSI and I had that mapped with a Shark map. Never had a problem with the OE clutch either. 

3 hours ago, roaddetective said:

The hose in question is called a braided line billet bleed block, which is £250 on it's own. Just got the details of it when they sent the rather large bill I will be paying. I will just have to trust the garage on this one. 

 

You can achieve the same with a 4mm drill bit, one of the rare occasions where it is worth getting out the old hand drill so allow 30 seconds instead of 15 (and 30 minutes to find the hand drill last used in the last century )

 

If you end up with an uprated clutch that does not feel any heavier and they end up with a heavier wallet then everyone is a winner.

 

A modified bleed block be it a hand drilled standard one or an expensive shiny alu one is a worthwhile modification but it wont affect the pedal pressure, that is simply a function of the clutch diaphragm force, the ratio of master to slave cylinder diameter and the clutch pedal length, if you have a severely restricted hydraulic line then pedal pressure will be higher when depressing the clutch if you try to do it very quickly, I had that on a Mini with an internally corroded line, the poppet valve opens on the OE bleed block to allow more than enough flow even for a tap dancer!