Hi all,

I've just had a dual mass flywheel and clutch replacement due to premature DMF failure (clunking with mileage at just over 20k!) Have wrote previous posts in relation to this so won't repeat myself.

 

However, the DMF and clutch replacement has caused issues with my stop and start technology! Has anyone else had issues with this? Once the battery is warm and stop-start is running, the engine growls and cuts out via the stop start. Have tried contacting Skoda.

 

They say my vehicle has a single flywheel and NOT stop start technology. They are wrong on both of these points. The original flywheel is a dual and it had stop start from new. Anyone got any advice as to what the hell is going on?

 

New flywheel and clutch is sweet but it's caused these problems. I don't want to be in a position of having to put the old parts back in, getting a refund off of my gearbox specialist and getting a dmf and clutch replacement for double the price via a Skoda dealer. I'm literally at a loss.

 

For reference my vehicle is a 2015, 1.4 tdi (roughly 90bhp). 

 

Thanks.

 

Attached is a video link. The stop start causes the car to do this. Then I have to repeatedly cycle the keys and hope for the best until it works. Even then there is a dreadful growl from the air intake area that you cannot really hear on the video. When the stop start isn't playing up this dreadful growl is likewise not there.

 

https://streamable.com/azeree

 

As said I am at a total loss. Skoda themselves say my vehicle has a single flywheel and no stop start!! If Skoda don't have the right information I've no idea what to do. The original flywheel is 110% a dual!

Edited 24 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan
More info

Martin,

have you checked your VIN with what's on record.  AFAIK your VIN should list all that was on the car from factory.

 

Given what Skoda (which Skoda, a dealership or Skoda UK?) have told you don't go by just your vehicle's registration cross check it against your VIN.  Where you standing in front of the screen that gave the information about the car to check details were keyed in correctly?  Mistakes are made, just for once the computer in the car (should) be more trustworthy.

 

Presumably when the new DMF was fitted a scan was done and if you have a record of this it will give you the VIN from the computer, also I'd have thought but don't know, that the new parts might need coding into the system?

 

If you enter your vehicle's registration into somewhere selling car parts it should bring up lots of details about your car to check also a government site like check MoT / road tax will give you more info.

 

You know what I'm going to put next - check your car battery is in a good state of charge for the computers (means very little that the car starts and lights seem bright) and that the battery connectors are secure and firm.

Edited 24 August, 20214 yr by nta16

Do you have a stop/start button just above the headlight switch?

When you turn the ignition on this switch should NOT be lit.

The switch has a round arrow outside an 'A'.

To turn the stop/start off you need to push the button and it lights up.

You will need to do this every time the ignition is turned on as it defaults to ON after every time the ignition is switched off.

 

To start the car you need to push the clutch in.

If the clutch is pushed in the stop/start doesn't work.

 

Your video suggests a starting problem. It starts then cuts out.

 

If you try to start the car without the clutch in do you get a message on the MFD on the dash?

 

Is the switch to sense if the clutch is pushed in working?

 

Judging by the number of times you have tried to start the car would suggest that the battery is good at the minute.

 

1 hour ago, MartinMMorgan said:

Once the battery is warm

Do you mean once the engine is warm? 

 

1 hour ago, MartinMMorgan said:

stop-start is running, the engine growls and cuts out via the stop start

Try turning the stop start off?

 

 

When trying to start the car do this:-

Ignition on, but don't start it.

Count to five.

Clutch in, then start the engine but don't touch the throttle.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

Martin,

battery is good for turning over at the minute, with more false starts it shows why it's best to have the battery in a good state of charge and continued failed starts will bring the battery down, so whilst the car isn't in use check the battery is a good state of charge or get it there otherwise you might cure the problem but not be able to start the car.

 

If you can remember next time to to video in horizontal to get full width of dash and perhaps even the stop/start button.

 

When you say your engine growls do you perhaps mean the alternator, is that near your air intake?

 

AGF makes some good points, just confirm that you are pushing the clutch in and not touching the accelerator at each attempted start, as the rev counter jump up.

 

Hi guys, to answer your questions, the battery is in good working order. I have a stop start button to the side of my steering wheel (it's not illuminated on startup). 

 

My mechanic temporarily disconnected the stop-start but to no avail.

 

What I mean in explaining my situation is that my stop-start does not kick in instantly from when starting the engine. It's only automatically engaged when having driven so far (apparently due to the battery voltages and sensor detection etc relating to the stop-start system - this has always been the case and never posed an issue before. I drive so far, maybe a mile or so, then the system starts cutting my engine out as and where needed providing the stop start light isn't illumanited. This never posed an issue until now. Now when the engine is cutting in and out my car just doesn't want to start; it growls and revs proceed to go up half way to it's normal rev range, before cutting out)

 

As far as I know all sensors etc are in good working order. None of these issues were present beforehand when I took the car to the garage to have the work done. It's only been since I've had the work done. My mechanic is trying to cross reference the new parts put on as best as they can.

 

Skoda were provided the VIN in addition to the reg, though they are insistent my vehicle doesn't have DMF nor stop-start when it has both! 

 

I've no warning or codes whatsoever when starting the vehicle. 

 

The video doesn't pick it up well but the dreadful growl on startup also was not there before.

 

My mechanic contacted me this evening and they said upon starting the car from cold none of the issues were present. Though after driving around the block, once stop-start starts to kick in at junctions etc, the above issues are there again.

 

I am at a loss with it all to be honest. 

 

I've no problems in terms of preference with stop-start.  Though I shouldn't really have to lose out on a feature that never caused any issues before.

 

I struggle to understand how a new flywheel and clutch has brought the above issues about.

 

I drove maybe 15 miles (if that) before having to turn back - I'd only picked up my vehicle 40 minutes prior. The mechanic still has my vehicle and are working as best as they can. I'm honestly at a loss though with it all and am unsure as to what's brought all this about. They've ran the vehicle for fault codes and I am assuming they would've double checked the battery by know too. 

 

In relation to coding I've no idea as to whether the clutch and DMF needs coding or has been coded. I've never heard of the transmission area needing coding before if I am honest.

 

50 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

Do you have a stop/start button just above the headlight switch?

When you turn the ignition on this switch should NOT be lit.

The switch has a round arrow outside an 'A'.

To turn the stop/start off you need to push the button and it lights up.

You will need to do this every time the ignition is turned on as it defaults to ON after every time the ignition is switched off.

 

To start the car you need to push the clutch in.

If the clutch is pushed in the stop/start doesn't work.

 

Your video suggests a starting problem. It starts then cuts out.

 

If you try to start the car without the clutch in do you get a message on the MFD on the dash?

 

Is the switch to sense if the clutch is pushed in working?

 

Judging by the number of times you have tried to start the car would suggest that the battery is good at the minute.

 

Do you mean once the engine is warm? 

 

Try turning the stop start off?

 

 

When trying to start the car do this:-

Ignition on, but don't start it.

Count to five.

Clutch in, then start the engine but don't touch the throttle.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Martin,

have you checked your VIN with what's on record.  AFAIK your VIN should list all that was on the car from factory.

 

Given what Skoda (which Skoda, a dealership or Skoda UK?) have told you don't go by just your vehicle's registration cross check it against your VIN.  Where you standing in front of the screen that gave the information about the car to check details were keyed in correctly?  Mistakes are made, just for once the computer in the car (should) be more trustworthy.

 

Presumably when the new DMF was fitted a scan was done and if you have a record of this it will give you the VIN from the computer, also I'd have thought but don't know, that the new parts might need coding into the system?

 

If you enter your vehicle's registration into somewhere selling car parts it should bring up lots of details about your car to check also a government site like check MoT / road tax will give you more info.

 

You know what I'm going to put next - check your car battery is in a good state of charge for the computers (means very little that the car starts and lights seem bright) and that the battery connectors are secure and firm.

 

Edited 24 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

9 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin,

battery is good for turning over at the minute, with more false starts it shows why it's best to have the battery in a good state of charge and continued failed starts will bring the battery down, so whilst the car isn't in use check the battery is a good state of charge or get it there otherwise you might cure the problem but not be able to start the car.

 

If you can remember next time to to video in horizontal to get full width of dash and perhaps even the stop/start button.

 

When you say your engine growls do you perhaps mean the alternator, is that near your air intake?

 

AGF makes some good points, just confirm that you are pushing the clutch in and not touching the accelerator at each attempted start, as the rev counter jump up.

 

 

Hi buddy, I did rev it in the video as that was the only way to get the car to turn over in the end. I don't normally rev or touch the accelerator mind. I normally just press the clutch pedal and turn the key as you mentioned. And with the growl I've no idea. It's right next to the air intake system and something is growling nastily when the car is playing up. This growl is not there when the above issues are not present.

 

I am also conscious of the battery as you stated. Particularly given repeated startups will drain it. 

Edited 24 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

2 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

My mechanic temporarily disconnected the stop-start but to no avail.

How?

 

1 minute ago, MartinMMorgan said:

something is growling nastily when the car is playing up.

Sounds like an inlet pipe is not connected/sealed properly.

 

 

6 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

Now when the engine is cutting in and out my car just doesn't want to start).

So you start the car and drive.

Then after a while when you stop the car, but not turn the engine off, the stop start will automatically stop the engine.

But the car will NOT automatically restart the engine when you push the clutch in?

Do you get a message in the MDF saying you need to start the car manually, eg. with the key?

 

Thanks, AG Falco

18 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

Sounds like an inlet pipe is not connected/sealed properly.

 

Or (partially) blocked?

 

Stop/start could have been disconnected at the battery connection (I forget exact details now).

 

Is it the clutch pedal that dictates the start or not or some tie-in at clutch area itself?

 

17 hours ago, AGFalco said:

How?

 

Sounds like an inlet pipe is not connected/sealed properly.

 

 

So you start the car and drive.

Then after a while when you stop the car, but not turn the engine off, the stop start will automatically stop the engine.

But the car will NOT automatically restart the engine when you push the clutch in?

Do you get a message in the MDF saying you need to start the car manually, eg. with the key?

 

Thanks, AG Falco

Hi, there's a connector lead that you can disconnect the stop-start via. That's how we disconnected that. And yeah, I get a message telling me to start the vehicle manually. However, even in instances like the the car isn't starting up. Even when stop-start is working it's repeatedly cycling and having the same issues that are seen in the video when I am cycling the key manually.

 

stop start is working in the sense I put the clutch in and it's trying to start itself. However the vehicle keeps cutting out. 

 

Update: Having the old clutch and flywheel put back in this Friday due to the problems the new parts are causing. Apparently the part supplier has my reg listed as non stop-start which would explain the issues with stop-start.  Mechanic seems confident once the old parts are back in I won't have any trouble besides those I started off with (clunky flywheel). Apparently the non stop-start flywheel and clutch doesn't pick up the sensors etc relating to the stop-start system. I don't understand it all myself. To make things worse though Skoda don't supply a DMF directly. I tried contacting them and the dealerships nearby. So the only option I will have is to have a new clutch and single flywheel conversion done at the local dealership for a cost of £1500! Apparently the DMF was a common fault and thus no longer provided by Skoda. This is all providing the bull**** that's came after having the new clutch/flywheel fitted are gone. I'll only know this Friday once the original parts are put back in. I'm getting refunded for the clutch/flywheel cost I originally paid (£650) but my head is in the shed! Tick tock and I won't know until this Friday and even then if it's not fixed I'm stuck in a predicament of having to go to Skoda to solve even more issues on top. Meant to be on holidays with the misses at the moment and I've all this crap to stress over and to make matters worst if Friday doesn't go to plan, I'll have to wait until Monday to contact the dealership!

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

I'm guessing that you and/or your independent garage that you have used, are not willing to buy what Skoda is now providing to do a DMF>SMF conversion and so save some cash and that garage be able to sort you out properly?

36 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I'm guessing that you and/or your independent garage that you have used, are not willing to buy what Skoda is now providing to do a DMF>SMF conversion and so save some cash and that garage be able to sort you out properly?

No, Skoda have said it requires coding once the conversion is done. So I'm hoping once the original parts are put back in my vehicle by the independent garage that the above problems will not be present. The Independent garage said they will refund the £650 the day I collect my car. Then I will go down the route of having Skoda do the clutch replacement and flywheel conversion asap. I'm not trying to cost cut or anything of that sort. Just panicking in case these issues that have occurred - as a result of the new clutch and flywheel being incompatible - still being an issue. I can only hope once the original parts are reinstalled that my car will be back to normal minus the flywheel knock. I honestly don't know what to do or say should the cutting out etc still be there come Friday when I collect my car. Otherwise it's more money again to figure out what's gone wrong on what should have been a routine clutch and flywheel change.

 

The Independent garage bought the clutch kit and DMF directly from LUK, so have not intentionally mucked up I don't believe. From what they said it was sold to them as being compatible (was cross referenced with my reg and VIN), but that despite being visually identical, the new parts aren't compatible with the stop-start system; thus incompatible and incorrectly advertised.

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

I was just looking at this from another way, VW Group seem to have messed up this DMF integration into this platform, so doing what I suggested would keep most of extra cost/earnings away from Skoda dealership, a good local VW Group Indie would have the knowledge and licenses to recode your car in exactly the same way as Skoda would do, that is still an option for you.

 

Everyone wants/aims to only spend what is required to complete most tasks - dealerships have massive overheads which customers tend to end up paying for - that is all.

4 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I was just looking at this from another way, VW Group seem to have messed up this DMF integration into this platform, so doing what I suggested would keep most of extra cost/earnings away from Skoda dealership, a good local VW Group Indie would have the knowledge and licenses to recode your car in exactly the same way as Skoda would do, that is still an option for you.

 

Everyone wants/aims to only spend what is required to complete most tasks - dealerships have massive overheads which customers tend to end up paying for - that is all.

Totally get where you are coming from buddy. I am just trying my best to get it sorted. Being 25yrs old and a full time uni student makes finances difficult enough as it is. I regret taking my car to have the clutch and flywheel changed. It should've been straightforward. I'll be lumbered with the costs should the cutting out etc and stop start problems still be an issue once the original clutch and flywheel is put back.... I don't agree with this part mind but there we are ain't it. In a **** situation I am. The Independent garage appear confident all will be back to normal once the original parts are back in - minus the original slight flywheel knock. We will soon see....

 

PS. Daft part is that the new clutch and flywheel make my car drive sweet despite the problems it's caused - when it ain't causing the above problems. The irony. 

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

Martin,

you've got to get the right parts to keep the computers happy.  You have now found what I found, that the stop/start and battery management systems and extremely invasive to the car overall.

 

What you need to get to the bottom of is your car registration if it really doesn't tie up with the Skoda UK records and perhaps your VIN.  Check your VIN on your V5C and actually on your car, in however many places it is on the car.  Type your car reg, into parts suppliers websites, Opie Oil as just one example and check the information matches what you have.

 

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

 

https://www.vehiclestats.co.uk/Home/About?Length=4

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

 

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/

   

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by nta16

I can see that you don't feel like ending up turning this "one stop shop" into a potentially "three stop shop", but maybe looking forward, check out exactly where your local VW Group Indie is located and aim to give them your business if/when necessary.  These business tend to rely on word of mouth more than normal local garages, so doing the right job in the right way is high on their minds.

 

 

2 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I can see that you don't feel like ending up turning this "one stop shop" into a potentially "three stop shop", but maybe looking forward, check out exactly where your local VW Group Indie is located and aim to give them your business if/when necessary.  These business tend to rely on word of mouth more than normal local garages, so doing the right job in the right way is high on their minds.

 

 

 

Yeah exactly. It's not the clutch and flywheel replacement that bothers me. It's the unknown with everything else that has come in the meantime from a garage mess up. A part of me wants to demand the garage fix the problems they've caused. They're trying their best though and if they are going to put the old parts back and give me a full refund, I can't say much I don't think no matter how much I feel I have a right to. 

@rum4mo If Skoda UK have the car registration as without stop/start then they too might have ordered the wrong parts.

 

5 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin,

you've got to get the right parts to keep the computers happy.  You have now found what I found, that the stop/start and battery management systems and extremely invasive to the car overall invasive.

 

What you need to get to the bottom of is your car registration (if it doesn't) not tying up with the Skoda UK records and perhaps your VIN.  Check your VIN on your V5C and actually on your car, in however many places it is on the car.  Type your car reg into parts suppliers websites, Opie Oil as just one example and check the information matches what you have.

 

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

 

https://www.vehiclestats.co.uk/Home/About?Length=4

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

 

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/

   

Thank you buddy for the links. All my details add up, though certain parts stores do hold incorrect info. Why I've no idea. The VIN matches all over my vehicle. It's confused me as to how this mess up has occurred. The parts store had my vehicle down as a non stop-start  and others even had it listed as a single mass flywheel despite it being a dual (single once the conversion is done). Skoda have informed me the dual flywheel is a common fault and the conversion is standard across this model now, which may be why some part stores have my car listed as a single mass flywheel

Opie Oils, yes it even allows you to find out other peoples engine numbers, which can be handy!

Martin,

I'm confused, have I got it wrong, I thought you'd put that Skoda (UK or dealership) had your car down as not having stop/start.?

 

If the DMF isn't faulty just jerky you could leave it in to save spending more money.

 

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by nta16

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

@rum4mo If Skoda UK have the car registration as without stop/start then they too might have ordered the wrong parts.

 

Then they would need to sort that supply error out, I'm sure that it happens now and again, this might be where "CAR DATA" comes into it's own, when I had a very late VW Passat 4Motion, the first time I ordered parts for it, my local VW parts man handed out a CAR DATA printout and advised me to hold onto that and use it when requesting parts, from that point on, and that was in maybe 2001 or 2002, I've always made sure that I request a printout of CAR DATA for every new car we, as a family have bought, some times it takes visiting a second dealership if the service/parts people are younger/not interested as they don't always know where to find that info on their system.

Blimey how many pages are these CAR DATA printouts, my 1977 printed paper 'Parts Catalogue' is 341 pages I can't see any place wanting to use that much paper and ink.

 

29 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin,

I'm confused, have I got it wrong, I thought you'd put that Skoda (UK or dealership) had your car down as not having stop/start.?

 

If the DMF isn't faulty just jerky you could leave it in to save spending more money.

 

Apparently certain aspects of Skoda do. Skoda UK don't, but Skoda EU (Germany) and SOME local dealers do. VW have the incorrect info down also. I'm unsure as to why they are all conflicting. Today has been a right Ballache and mine field so my apologies for confusion buddy 

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

30 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin,

I'm confused, have I got it wrong, I thought you'd put that Skoda (UK or dealership) had your car down as not having stop/start.?

 

If the DMF isn't faulty just jerky you could leave it in to save spending more money.

 

Also I've been tempted buddy. It is literally just a slight knock hidden behind the tickover (not overly noticeable) and a jerky experience with the clutch. Praying my car will be back like it was this Friday with the original parts back in it. If so, I think I may wait till I've no choice but to change (thus convert) the dmf to single via Skoda or whatever. 

Edited 25 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

Martin,

no worries or apologised needed, I'm old, I've  literally lost the plot of this, I'll have to wait for the edited version to be released.  

 

Another thing you've learnt, and I can confirm many times over, is that all databases have errors and omissions, just because they're on a computer of some sort doesn't make them an exception.

 

And from experience I can tell you cross reference lists tend to be even worse with errors and omissions from the source databases copied and even perhaps some new ones added.  Parts manufacturer's and suppliers databases, catalogues and websites can have errors for years even if they've been notified of the error, with tens of thousands of items listed and crosslinking even if it's corrected at one part it can remain wrong at others, and worst still people seem to accept it more easily because it's on "a computer"!

 

I recently spent two hours going through cross-reference database sorting a correct oil filter for a mate after he ordered from three different motor factor shops who got for him three different makes and numbers filters but they were the same as each and wrong.  But I've also ordered wrong parts for myself and for others by making an error or not doing enough cross-checking with with enough reliable sources of info.