https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-truth-about-electric-cars-dispatches

 

channel 4 tonight 8.30pm

i wonder if they will tell us the truth

44 minutes ago, 310golfr said:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-truth-about-electric-cars-dispatches

 

 

i wonder if they will tell us the truth

 

 

Doubt they ever will.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...its too shocking!!!!.....

 

 

TAXI....!!!...🤣

I bet it's along lines of "charging experience sucks, cars are great"

7 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I bet it's along lines of "charging experience sucks, cars are great"

 

Plus the "raw materials used & the processing of the them to make the batteries is environmentally unfriendly".

As is it with all vehicles and the Internal Combustion ones have been given an end of first registration date on new ones, but that is only in a small part of the world and because of a carry on with lots of lies and cheating about emissions.

 

So as it is there is still the German and US manufacturers & some others more bothered about how fast they can make cars can go rather than building lighter and more efficient for using on roads.

Just caught a 5 min fragment where they took a newish MG and a 9yr old 1st gen Leaf for a run down the motorway at 70mph.

 

An expert university of Warwick battery scientist explains the importance of keeping charge levels within a window of 80% max to 20% min to prevent accelerated battery degradation. It was backed up by advice printed in the MG user manual.

 

So they started at 80% and tested how far it would take them to get to 20%

 

The MG managed 72 miles using 80% to 15%.

The Leaf went 17 miles before the presenter chickened out thinking it would run out completely.

 

Maybe the Leaf had done over 200,000 miles as many EV fans seem to claim they often do. Never mind, it can be repurposed to power someone's house for an hour or two, or be sent to one of those yet to exist battery recycling centres along with our blue bin rubbish that go to a mythical place where it gets put in a container bound for Malaysia

 

Thank goodness there are so many in the UK that look and sound as though they are going to be driving an EV anytime soon.

 

 

 

Edited 22 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

11 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Plus the "raw materials used & the processing of the them to make the batteries is environmentally unfriendly".

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

 

10 hours ago, xman said:

So they started at 80% and tested how far it would take them to get to 20%

 

The MG managed 72 miles using 80% to 15%.

The Leaf went 17 miles before the presenter chickened out thinking it would run out completely.

It does highlight the biggest problem for EV's: poor the high speed efficiency. First-gen and badly built ones are mostly city runabouts. 

 

Even expensive 90+ kWh cars like Ford SUV mustang and Audi e-tron are pretty bad at this metric because they have such a large frontal surface area and poor drag coefficient. 

 

Efficiency is king. For EV to replace petrol, we need more aerodynamic cars, not bigger and bigger batteries. 

Their efficiency at any speed is more than double that of an internal combustion engined vehicle.

 

The improvements in aerodynamic efficiency have pretty much all been made in recent decades, any further improvements will be de minimis reducing frontal area will always have a major effect, we need to get back to sensible sized passenger vehicles, ones that can carry a family of 5 and still park in a standard single garage and allow the passengers to exit, ones where you can see over the roof and wash it with a sponge not requiring a stepladder.

 

A large frontal area does not equate to a poor drag coefficient, you could build a half scale vehicle and it would have exactly the same drag coefficient.

 

Drag coefficient is a bit of a con trick, what is relevant and what should be used is CDA, the coefficient multiplied by the surface area, I guarantee you that when a manufacturer boasts how good the CD is on their new vehicle the CDA will be significantly worse than preceeding vehicles.

 

 

Below freezing this morning and it was lovely with the EV to just defrost while heating the cars battery and interior before setting off that cost a few pence in electric at home, 

heated seat and steering wheel on, then top up the battery free while shopping.

US Gallons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, J.R. said:

The improvements in aerodynamic efficiency have pretty much all been made in recent decades, any further improvements will be de minimis reducing frontal area will always have a major effect, we need to get back to sensible sized passenger vehicles, ones that can carry a family of 5 and still park in a standard single garage and allow the passengers to exit, ones where you can see over the roof and wash it with a sponge not requiring a stepladder.

 

I very much agree with this. I'm 5'11 (or there abouts) and still require a stepladder and a good set of sponge curling skills (new Olympic sport) for sliding it across the roof of our Dacia Duster...

 

Anyway, back on topic... electric cars etc. 

Edited 23 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

So, who watched the show? Someone must've?

I watched it and some was relevant and some was just WTF as far as i was concerned.

 

The charger number / statistics were good, the Co-founder of ZapMap should know her stuff.

Sadly ZapMap are very poor at updating Charge Place Scotland cost to charge, new chargers etc, but when i email them they say it is because CPS / SWARCO are not sharing Info.

 

Somehow not sure if the figures on UK chargers and statistics actually included Scotland but i suspect not.  

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

 

 

Very interesting link, thanks.

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

 

It does highlight the biggest problem for EV's: poor the high speed efficiency. First-gen and badly built ones are mostly city runabouts. 

 

Even expensive 90+ kWh cars like Ford SUV mustang and Audi e-tron are pretty bad at this metric because they have such a large frontal surface area and poor drag coefficient. 

 

Efficiency is king. For EV to replace petrol, we need more aerodynamic cars, not bigger and bigger batteries. 

 

 

ANY vehicle will benefit from proper aerodynamics.....

 

In fact I started a big thread on it years ago when I started retro-fitting more undertrays to my car to give it better aero..

 

The funny thing is that most of the parts exist for the "eco" versions, & on the current Polo & MK8 Golf VW have coated the whole underside....I reckon they have been reading my threads as they are top in Google for the subject on the MK7 Golf..

 

Here's one of them, most info in the first 8 posts:-

How to retro-fit skid trays, aerodynamic under trays, & stone guards to a MK7 Golf | GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum

 

Fitting the rear window fins which is another well known aero mod  as it reduces turbulence around the rear screen sides

How to retro-fit the rear window spoiler fins to a Mk7 Golf Estate/Variant/S.W. | GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum

 

Lower rear arm covers & the Mk8 aero covers:-

How to retro-fit the Mk8 rear suspension aero covers or stone guards to a Mk7 Golf. | GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum

 

Tiguan subframe cover:-

How to retro-fit the front subframe cover from the VW Tiguan (2016->) | GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum

 

Decreasing the frontal cross sectional area via lowering the car, reducing the width of the tyres, not fitting mudflaps that stick out beyond the tyre, reducing the wing mirror size ........

 

The other way is to smooth the underside air flow...so cover up all those cavities etc...ever seen the underside of a Tesla or Ferrari??...smooth & totally covered from bumper to bumper...

@fabdavrav The underside of almost all EV's are worth looking under.

Be them designed as vehicles that are EV only or ones that come as EV / Hybrid or ICE models.

Edited 23 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Re car aero & mainly the Cd value....

 

How many of you remember the Vauxhall Calibra??....One of the design features was incredibly low drag of 0.26 on the 2WD early models when it came out in June 1989..

 

Later cars with the bigger engines & 4x4 16V, V6, turbo models had a worse Cd of 0.29, due to changes in cooling system, underbody, use of spoked wheels & other minor changes.

 

I mean the Tesla model S from 2012 was only 0.24Cd....!!...

 

Automobile drag coefficient - Wikipedia

 

 

Edited 23 November, 20214 yr by fabdavrav

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

Re car aero & mainly the Cd value....

It's not just Cd that matters but CdA which includes the effective frontal area too - making the vehicle lower and narrower also reduces drag, but wouldn't be popular as too many people like high and wide SUVs now.

Usually a car is to get people about so it is good people can have free choices if they get to select what they drive.

 

With many drivers / owners it is to do with practicality and comfort usually and that vehicles are to suit their transport needs. 

That will not always mean a large vehicle is what they want or get. 

If they get a SUV size / Crossover vehicle and like it then they might replace that with another like for like, or maybe not.

They might have more than one vehicle for use in different circumstances.  

Edited 23 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

A smaller estate should do us fine, but living up a lane we both like the higher seating position of an SUV that makes it easier to see over hedges for oncoming vehicles (especially on one particular bridge). The SEAT Leon ST we had was a great car and we almost replaced it with the 4x4 version, but went with the Karoq for higher seating position. We stayed SUV-ish with the ID.4, but TBH there wasn't an alternative to an SUV with a battery at the time we were looking. We have a reason for an SUV and SWMBO does feel safer in it.

Edited 2 December, 20214 yr by Luckypants
spotted spelling mistake

The truth about an old EV.

 

 

 

To be fair, he was driving it really conservatively to achieve 66 miles out of a battery that have lost 4 health bars. 

 

My 7 yo Leaf have lost 1 battery health bar, I place it at 50 miles of any-road any-southern-England-weather totally-reliable dependable range. 

I would like to know what one being driven conservatively with a driver and 3 adult passengers as many are when Private Hire / Taxis to see what the early Leafs can do on a full charge.

 

Still not much idea if maybe 40% of the journey is just the driver.

Airport Transport type thing, no fare paying passengers on one leg of a journey.

 

 

Edited 25 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

47 minutes ago, roottoot said:

many are when Private Hire / Taxis

Cite needed. I'm presently sat in a bay window overlooking a main route between a housing scheme and the local town centre, and in and out of Glasgow 3 days a week. I'm yet to see an EV (and few PHEVs) on taxi or private hire work.

But sit in Dundee and that is a whole different story with Yellow Nissan Leaf early and later cars and many other EV,s.128 licensed.  Angus also for EV taxis. But then the public charging infrastructure is there and Taxi firms have their own charging hubs.  As it is in Glasgow actually has the infrastructure  where free charging is available. There are proper EV Taxi cabs around the city.   In Dundee there are also fleets of Food Delivery and Couriers using EV,s.  

Edited 25 November, 20214 yr by roottoot