27 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

 

so I no longer have a tesla, the "database" in my Enyaq is irrelevant, I was in my VW transporter which has no sat nav. I thought the Esso station you mentioned had closed years ago, it certainly was at one point, in any event that too would have required a diversion off route and then it's not on a junction so in heavy traffic quite awkwrd to get back on to my route. 

I drive a Skoda which simply involves plugging in and then walkign away, I dodn't faff about with payment, plug and charge does that for me. And I think at last you're beginning to grasp my point about time spent filling. At no point since I ditched the Nissan Leaf have I sat waiting for my car to complete a charge. Driving from here to Milton Keynes I stop at Carlisle. I plug in, go to the loo, grab a coffee and then unplug and go. I don't even drink the coffee at the chargepoint, I get on my way. Then I typically stop around the Lancaster area for lunch, Again, plug in, go into McDonalds, grab an (un) healthy meal, eat it, pee and then get on the road. That's it. Why on earth would I want to prolong my long journey by sitting fiddling with my phone or whatever. The only time I do that is if I have to join a meeting on Teams in which case I pull in and do the call while sitting still. If possible I do that at a charger so that I make most efficient use of the time. 

I have made plenty journeys in both vehicles. Regardless of fuel type I tend to stop at roughly the same places for the same time. But in the diesel I need to make an additional stop for fuel because as well as not havign a sat nav the VW also refuses to refill itself. 

 

Still not quite seeing the picture that I'm painting. So lets try and establish a few clarifying points.

 

Were you starting the journey from Livingston? which is the information I gleaned from your posts (tbh they were not very clear about start - finish or routes taken, so assumptions had to be made) Then you said in a later post that it was clear that I was not familiar with A68 and in among all the posts you said somewhere that the Costco was the 1st PFS you came across. So when I tried to work out what was happening, looking at the mapping programs I have I could see that A68 was devoid of PFS and that it joined the Edinburgh bypass on the right of the map and it showed Costco was to the left of that junction, so it seemed logical that you were either intending going south on the A68, or coming north on it. Then I discovered about Costco only having 20 stations (all members only) in the whole of the UK, it become pretty obvious that you would have ignored Sainsburys (the 1st PFS) with Costco only a few hundred metres away because you was a member it would have no sense to use Sainsburys when you would lost on the massive savings that were on offer at Costco, hence why I assumed (logically) that was your intention anyway although you say otherwise.

 

So lets now play devil's advocate here, and this is what my logic was telling me, lets assume you were were driving your EV and needed a charge to make it either to your destination or to home and your EV satnav told you that there was a free charger at say Costco, then you would have had to make the exact same deviation from the bypass, and back again and while the EV was charging, had a comfort break, OK?
Now substitute the EV for your diesel, still needing fuel and you're needing a comfort break, now the ONLY difference between the ICE and EV is the actual time you spent pumping diesel into your tank, then you went off and did your comfort break. So the only difference between those two scenarios is the EV would be charging while you have the break but the ICE adds extra time before your break, OK?

 

Thats is why I say it is unfair to claim the extra time on for queueing and leaving and rejoining the bypass. 

 

If I was doing a trip like that, I would have made a shopping trip to Tesco (I don't have an account at Costco and the nearest one is over 20 miles), done some shopping, then Tesco PFS on the way out of their carpark and back home. Then later on or next day, made that trip and would not have needed to make a stop for fuel (I may have needed a comfort break), and hence why I said about preparation before, so for me that preparation was zero really because I usually have to make two or three trips to Tesco for fresh fruit / veg etc anyway, so no special preparation is needed. But if I needed to make a comfort trip then I would have made that same deviation from the bypass that you made and that extra time on the trip was purely for comfort only.

 

The mention of sitting in the car that I made in the original post, was NOT aimed at you, check what I wrote and I think you will see that I said that some  people may do that.

 

I'm amazed that although the VW transporter has no built-in satnav, that you don't either have an aftermarket screen mounted one or an app on your phone. I chose the TomTom Go510 (even though the Superb does have its own, it does have regular map updates, or POI like PFS and charge locations and also does not have speed camera warnings, which the TomTom does and get regular free updates for life (at least I get them for life as long as my unit keeps working). Had you had something like that, then as you saw from the those screen prints there are a multitude of PFS in the Livingston and Loanhead areas that you might otherwise have been unaware of.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Yes. totally agree outside your brackets. We are getting there. 

 

If we want to be 100% comparable, time to refuel liquid fuel should start ticking the moment car deviate from original route and end upon re-joining original route. It should include any time spent queuing should there be a queue and for long journey, any time spent going to the loo/herding passengers. 

Time to recharge is similar. Time starts from deviate from route and end upon re-joining. 

 

If refuel at petrol station is another stop (for cost), both comfort break + secondary stop should be counted. Same for EV recharging, it's only fair. 

 

But reality is that EV doesn't need this until more than 250 miles or 4+ hours have been driven (if driveway = true), whereas ICE must have minimum of 10min preparation before trip or otherwise when it needs refuelling is non-deterministic. Could be less than 100 miles into the trip and a comfort break isn't needed. 

 

The point is re-energise being slower from 5min (ICE) to 20min (EV) is not important if car is going to be parked for roughly that duration anyway.

5min at petrol station + 15min at service = 20min rapid charging at service.  Similar amount of time not making progress. 

 

No there is NO we are getting there, the points you keep making were never in question, that is a given factor and is understood, If you personally were driving it would make zero difference if you were in ICE or an EV so you tell me, that you would still require a comfort break, correct?

 

When I mentioned about @domhnall saying about plugging in a EV and it charges itself, I was trying to say that UNTIL the cable or the fuel nozzle is inserted that no filling or charging is taking place, from that point you can 100% ignore the EV, I was not ever making any comparisons with the EV, it was all about the true time of filling the ICE tank full stop.

 

Also ignore your claim that an ICE vehicle must have minimum of 10min preparation before trip or otherwise when it needs refuelling is non-deterministic. Could be less than 100 miles into the trip and a comfort break isn't needed, because that is not needed in every case as I have demonstrated. All modern cars like mine have a accurate trip computer, which just like an EV will give you a predicted range figure and a satnav will give a total trip distance, so no guess work involved.

 

Why is it that EV people automatically assume everything is EV bashing, it is NOT. This country is still one that allows people to make a free choice and I'm so happy that we can all enjoy that freedom and I fully respect your choice was to go electric while mine currently given the circumstances is to remain with ICE. If circumstances change than my choice might well change, so why the hell can't you accept that as a fact and stop being an amateur psychologist and making out that you can read my mind, because I keep telling you, you could not be further from the truth if you tried.

 

This is what I say about context, you have to understand how important that is.

 

To coin a phrase, I'm only pointing out the bleeding obvious, honest Gov. 😀

Edited 8 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

I wasn't talking about the simple number of fires, I meant the proportion of fires among that type of vehicle , more ICE vehicles catch fire than EVs but also there's a far higher proportion of ICE cars on the road that catch fire, ie you are more likely to see an ICE on fire. 

Widely reported but ths is from Top Gear on the Swedish study

The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent. MSB has also recently proven a new way to extinguish battery fires fast.

then there's the also widely reported insurance study which shows that Hybrids are most likely to catch fire, followed by conventional ICE cars and then the lowest risk is from EVs

 

https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/

 

 

That is precisely what I said 🙄, the ICE out number the electric cars on the road today, so obviously, you will see more ICE fires than you see EV fires and you are far more likely to see a HEV or PHEV fire than you are a BEV fire simply because they not only have a greater number, but are also far more complicated so there is more to go wrong. 

 

I simply cannot understand why this even being discussed, when it is so blatantly obvious that the balance of probability of a fire between the types is heavily biased to the ICE, but only because there are more of them, but also because more of them are older than the EVs and thus ageing has taken its toll and also poor maintenance plays a major part as well.

 

Why cannot anyone get past this point, it is sadly a real sticking point with so many EV owners/drivers and an accepted fact of life with ICE owners/drivers.

 

I'll say once again, I'm not an EV bashing Luddite, I'm an electrical engineer for crying out loud, so of course I'm going to be highly interested in electric cars, and at the same time I can see drawbacks to them which is in the main part the batteries.

 

 

Edited 8 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

36 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

This country is still one that allows people to make a free choice

Not for much longer!

Just to be different because i am and so are many other people.

I am maybe much more different, i usually have all the time in the world and enjoy charging, the challenge of Charge Place Scotland & no longer fit for purpose chargers.

 

So small car and small battery cars, E-Corsa & now MINI Electric.

Corsa needed charging by 120 miles and the MINI by 100,miles.    (Bigger cars, bigger batteries and more range is different from i post below.)

 

So after 100 miles or there about even though the Corsa could charge up to a 100 kW i was going to 50 kW max chargers.

45-60 mins charging needed to put in 80-100 miles more range.

 

No issues as long as no issues, charger starts on RFID card or tap the Debit or Credit or Phone up and if lucky get answered and get a charger working.

Fine for me, or me and dog, and basically OK with a passenger or 2 if just one charging stop.

 

Places to go, people to see and no flexibility in time, over 80 miles maybe and just got 90 - 120 minutes for travelling and parking i take a fossil fuel vehicle. 

I do take the EV if going to collect someone and have time to go charge and maybe get messed about getting a charge and then am heading on without them having to hang about 40 minutes or more at someplace with no toilets.

Or if available go charge at a Commercial Charger, pay more than it should cost and probable by munchies or drinks where we would not usually bother to. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Still not quite seeing the picture that I'm painting. So lets try and establish a few clarifying points.

 

Were you starting the journey from Livingston? which is the information I gleaned from your posts (tbh they were not very clear about start - finish or routes taken, so assumptions had to be made) Then you said in a later post that it was clear that I was not familiar with A68 and in among all the posts you said somewhere that the Costco was the 1st PFS you came across. So when I tried to work out what was happening, looking at the mapping programs I have I could see that A68 was devoid of PFS and that it joined the Edinburgh bypass on the right of the map and it showed Costco was to the left of that junction, so it seemed logical that you were either intending going south on the A68, or coming north on it. Then I discovered about Costco only having 20 stations (all members only) in the whole of the UK, it become pretty obvious that you would have ignored Sainsburys (the 1st PFS) with Costco only a few hundred metres away because you was a member it would have no sense to use Sainsburys when you would lost on the massive savings that were on offer at Costco, hence why I assumed (logically) that was your intention anyway although you say otherwise.

 

So lets now play devil's advocate here, and this is what my logic was telling me, lets assume you were were driving your EV and needed a charge to make it either to your destination or to home and your EV satnav told you that there was a free charger at say Costco, then you would have had to make the exact same deviation from the bypass, and back again and while the EV was charging, had a comfort break, OK?
Now substitute the EV for your diesel, still needing fuel and you're needing a comfort break, now the ONLY difference between the ICE and EV is the actual time you spent pumping diesel into your tank, then you went off and did your comfort break. So the only difference between those two scenarios is the EV would be charging while you have the break but the ICE adds extra time before your break, OK?

 

Thats is why I say it is unfair to claim the extra time on for queueing and leaving and rejoining the bypass. 

 

If I was doing a trip like that, I would have made a shopping trip to Tesco (I don't have an account at Costco and the nearest one is over 20 miles), done some shopping, then Tesco PFS on the way out of their carpark and back home. Then later on or next day, made that trip and would not have needed to make a stop for fuel (I may have needed a comfort break), and hence why I said about preparation before, so for me that preparation was zero really because I usually have to make two or three trips to Tesco for fresh fruit / veg etc anyway, so no special preparation is needed. But if I needed to make a comfort trip then I would have made that same deviation from the bypass that you made and that extra time on the trip was purely for comfort only.

 

The mention of sitting in the car that I made in the original post, was NOT aimed at you, check what I wrote and I think you will see that I said that some  people may do that.

 

I'm amazed that although the VW transporter has no built-in satnav, that you don't either have an aftermarket screen mounted one or an app on your phone. I chose the TomTom Go510 (even though the Superb does have its own, it does have regular map updates, or POI like PFS and charge locations and also does not have speed camera warnings, which the TomTom does and get regular free updates for life (at least I get them for life as long as my unit keeps working). Had you had something like that, then as you saw from the those screen prints there are a multitude of PFS in the Livingston and Loanhead areas that you might otherwise have been unaware of.

yes I was starting from Livingston but I was addressing the original point you made at some point when this was a semi private argument between you and @Ootohere and yiu suggested that PFS were roadside whereas charging hubs tend to be further away and need a diversion off route. 

All of the PFS were away from my route and would have needed a diversion whereas the charger on my driveway needs no such diversion. I have found over the last 7 years of driving EVs that I tend to take comfort breaks only when on long trips and I choose to just add some charge while I'm doing that. When I;m in the diesel I don't fill up when taking a comfort break because the fuel is much more expensive in motorway service areas. The electricity is not, it costs the same on or off the motorway but if it was excessive there then I would have to divert off the motorway in the EV too.

The VW has no sat nav but of course I could use my phone but I only do that when I need a sat nav, not when I know fine where I am going. 

@domhnall@Graham Butcher  Does seem unaware of the like of Harthill Services East or Westbound / BP, or BP Service station New Bridge BP & MFG Chargers, or West ward from the Gyle / BP.

Aberdeen Bypass, Air port Park & Ride, Shell Re-Charge & MFG, Ionity etc etc.  Aberdeen Tesla Service Centre Chargers etc etc etc. 

 

But Scotland is not England and even England is maybe regions.  As Scotland is many regions.

 

The Daily Record has an article About Chargers and regions and not many Registered BEV,s in an area.

Totally missing again how many BEV,s in Scotland have non Scotland registrations & are in the country without a registered keeper in the region. 

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/areas-scotland-risk-being-unplugged-33819480

 

I take it the figure is one from the DVLA one on Registered Keepers address / location and the VED Class of vehicle. Electric / Hybrids. 

 

 

 

Edited 8 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

6 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Just to be different because i am and so are many other people.

I am maybe much more different, i usually have all the time in the world and enjoy charging, the challenge of Charge Place Scotland & no longer fit for purpose chargers.

 

So small car and small battery cars, E-Corsa & now MINI Electric.

Corsa needed charging by 120 miles and the MINI by 100,miles.    (Bigger cars, bigger batteries and more range is different from i post below.)

 

So after 100 miles or there about even though the Corsa could charge up to a 100 kW i was going to 50 kW max chargers.

45-60 mins charging needed to put in 80-100 miles more range.

 

No issues as long as no issues, charger starts on RFID card or tap the Debit or Credit or Phone up and if lucky get answered and get a charger working.

Fine for me, or me and dog, and basically OK with a passenger or 2 if just one charging stop.

 

Places to go, people to see and no flexibility in time, over 80 miles maybe and just got 90 - 120 minutes for travelling and parking i take a fossil fuel vehicle. 

I do take the EV if going to collect someone and have time to go charge and maybe get messed about getting a charge and then am heading on without them having to hang about 40 minutes or more at someplace with no toilets.

Or if available go charge at a Commercial Charger, pay more than it should cost and probable by munchies or drinks where we would not usually bother to. 

That to me makes perfect sense, the right tool for the right job, sadly though for many people, myself included, I'm limited on both a cost basis and storing basis, limited to a single car, so that also currently means that only an ICE is right for me. For the many short runs I have to make, an EV with home charging makes sense but not economic sense. 

This past week i have been charging each 2nd night at home. 20 miles costing 50 pence. 

 

13 minutes ago, domhnall said:

yes I was starting from Livingston but I was addressing the original point you made at some point when this was a semi private argument between you and @Ootohere and yiu suggested that PFS were roadside whereas charging hubs tend to be further away and need a diversion off route. 

All of the PFS were away from my route and would have needed a diversion whereas the charger on my driveway needs no such diversion. I have found over the last 7 years of driving EVs that I tend to take comfort breaks only when on long trips and I choose to just add some charge while I'm doing that. When I;m in the diesel I don't fill up when taking a comfort break because the fuel is much more expensive in motorway service areas. The electricity is not, it costs the same on or off the motorway but if it was excessive there then I would have to divert off the motorway in the EV too.

The VW has no sat nav but of course I could use my phone but I only do that when I need a sat nav, not when I know fine where I am going. 

OK, the point about PFS was that they do crop up (in England) at least right slap bang at road side on most of the major roads, whereas the main large EV hubs are normally located at a convenient spot where the National Grid passes close by because of the huge power demands when all the chargers are in use, especially if they are of the 300+Kw types, others you will get throttling and power-sharing just as that Gridserve whistle-blower reported and also many other EV drivers on YouTube have likewise reported that they have seen their charging speed drop as other cars are being plugged in.

 

Also if you could wipe the fact that you charge at home so that you wouldn't stop for a charge and think outside your bubble can you then see the point that was making is correct. In other words, the trip being undertaken was to long for your EV (no home charging) without needing to visit a public charger, just as you did with the VW transporter, Both diesel pump and Charger are at the same location and you needed a comfort break (which was what I understood by the way it was written) then the ONLY difference between the EV and the ICE is the real-time filling of the ICE, I'm NOT interested in the overall time of doing both, just added time of filling a tank, the rest will be the same as you will still need time to the comfort break + eating etc in both cases.

It really really is simples, EV,s are clearly not for everyone and their needs and wants.

Just do not get one if you do not want one.  It is as easy as that. 'Just say no!'.

 

Tell your MP your feelings on the 2035 or 2030 timeline ask them to remember and tell Keir, Angela, Rachel, Louise and anyone else.

 

 

Edited 8 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I simply cannot understand why this even being discussed, when it is so blatantly obvious that the balance of probability of a fire between the types is heavily biased to the ICE, but only because there are more of them, but also because more of them are older than the EVs and thus ageing has taken its toll and also poor maintenance plays a major part as well.

The bold bit, I think you need to go back to school and learn how probability works. Or have a look at basic principle behind statistical analysis. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

This is what I say about context, you have to understand how important that is.

 

To coin a phrase, I'm only pointing out the bleeding obvious, honest Gov. 😀

I'm sorry, what context? Are you okay behind the keyboard? Because all I'm reading is a lot of illogical conjectures. 

 

Let's break it down: 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

When I mentioned about @domhnall saying about plugging in a EV and it charges itself, I was trying to say that UNTIL the cable or the fuel nozzle is inserted that no filling or charging is taking place, from that point you can 100% ignore the EV, I was not ever making any comparisons with the EV, it was all about the true time of filling the ICE tank full stop.

Why does this time to refuel matter in the real world? 

Do you teleport to petrol station pump and then teleport back? 

In the real world, only thing matters is when you are not making progress. I'm sure you are keenly aware, because you keep pointing out you are a busy man. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Also ignore your claim that an ICE vehicle must have minimum of 10min preparation before trip or otherwise when it needs refuelling is non-deterministic. Could be less than 100 miles into the trip and a comfort break isn't needed, because that is not needed in every case as I have demonstrated. All modern cars like mine have a accurate trip computer, which just like an EV will give you a predicted range figure and a satnav will give a total trip distance, so no guess work involved.

The idea is not whether you can determine when you need to stop during a trip. The idea is that for sake of our discussion, without prior preparation, you cannot say you can travel 600 miles at start of the trip. The distance you can travel is non-deterministic in the context of our discussion (ah context, you must know a lot about it). Whereas with long range EV and driveway, the trip starting distance can be guaranteed at greater than 250 miles. 

 

For example, Dom's trip started with lowish fuel. Your trip may have started with full tank. That's because you've done aforementioned preparation before the trip during your very busy schedules. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Why is it that EV people automatically assume everything is EV bashing, it is NOT. This country is still one that allows people to make a free choice and I'm so happy that we can all enjoy that freedom and I fully respect your choice was to go electric while mine currently given the circumstances is to remain with ICE. If circumstances change than my choice might well change, so why the hell can't you accept that as a fact and stop being an amateur psychologist and making out that you can read my mind, because I keep telling you, you could not be further from the truth if you tried.

All I'm going with is what you've posted. And you asked whether I agree. I do mostly agree with your statement as I quoted and stated. 

 

At no point in my previous post I even thought you were EV bashing....... strange that you elect to say this...... 

Tesla have released the Model 3 LR RWD and Model Y LR RWD. 

 

Model 3 LR RWD - 436 miles WLTP - £45k 

Model Y LR RWD - 373 miles WLTP - £47k 

 

The Model 3 is 5+ hours and MY is comfortably over 4 hours zero traffic motorway driving in vast majority of UK weather. 

 

The Model 3 is only 14% more than Golf GTI and cheaper than Golf's most expensive trim level. The 3's performance sits in between the two, with similar amount of equipment and more interior space. 

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/golf.html#build

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/model3/design#overview

7 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Tesla have released the Model 3 LR RWD and Model Y LR RWD. 

 

Model 3 LR RWD - 436 miles WLTP - £45k 

Model Y LR RWD - 373 miles WLTP - £47k 

 

The Model 3 is 5+ hours and MY is comfortably over 4 hours zero traffic motorway driving in vast majority of UK weather. 

 

The Model 3 is only 14% more than Golf GTI and cheaper than Golf's most expensive trim level. The 3's performance sits in between the two, with similar amount of equipment and more interior space. 

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/golf.html#build

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/model3/design#overview

 

I rate value by the number of indicator stalks.

 

TESLA 0 Renault Scenic, European Car of the Year 5

 

Just curious what tyres pressure do you have your MY ?

Seen some incredible high numbers stated for some TESLA ie 45 psi when cold, some 42 psi when cold.

 

That helps ones range, having the tyres like bullets losing little to hysteresis.  Little bit of a negative effect on braking distance. though. 

 

Tyre pressure should be as the manufacturer printed in the handbook otherwise the performance will not be the same in terms of rolling resistance is true, but also the grip will be adversely affected and tyres will wear out far quicker. Over inflation will wear out the centre of the tread and inflation will wear out the outer edges and side walls. 

But how many read an OWNERS MANUAL in a Fleet car, hire car, courtesy car or even their daily driver.

 

So Fuel / Charging flap stickers with the Pressures for car load and tyre sixes or B-Pillar is so much more 'Simply Clever'  or GOOGLE the pressures on your phone is easy.

Or as on many Premium Cars or even non premium with Screens and TPMS you just look up  MENU,  Status, Tyre Pressures and you get the choice of tyre size, summer or winter and then it tells you the recommended pressures.

?

Does TESLA have that on the System?   

 

EDIT. Yes...

 

 

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

13 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The Model 3 is 5+ hours and MY is comfortably over 4 hours zero traffic motorway driving in vast majority of UK weather. 

Only problem is you wouldn't get close to that range at motorway speeds.

@Dieselgate Maybe not for you.

 

Me & @lol-lol and others might just do as we often do and pick the correct vehicle travelling at the Motorway or Dual Carriageway speed as no Motorways north of Perth and then get very good efficiency.

 

As it is with these TESLA Model 3 or Y or what ever there is only a driver in them. 

If you are really going to do 5 hours or more driving in a Tesla there is a pretty good chance if you have not enough range a 30 minute stop at a supercharger will be all that is needed. 

 

5 x 65 mph is 325 miles.

5 x 70 mph is 350 miles. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 hours ago, Ootohere said:

This past week i have been charging each 2nd night at home. 20 miles costing 50 pence. 

 

that's expensive, I normally get 330 for a fiver

@domhnall What tariff are you paying or are you generating electric?

 

Or really it is that you get very good efficiency and the length of the trip.

330 miles if you get 4.5 miles a kWh is 73 kWh.

500 pence divided by 73 kWh is 6.84 pence.

 

26.6 kWh i would have used and @ 6.9 pence a kWh that would have cost me £1.84

But to then recharge at 60 pence a kWh to get back doing the same efficiency i would be paying £16.00

 

...............

So is the 6.9 pence a kWh expensive or just the MINI not that efficient doing 5 x 2 miles a day?

 

50 pence divided by 6.9 pence = 7.2 kWh.      20 miles divided by 7.2  = 2.7 miles per kWh.

 

But really more like 3 miles as losses charging on the 3 pin cable..

 

£5 would be 200 miles.

But if i was tailing you and getting 4.5 miles a kWh i would have had to stop to charge at 110-120 miles.

 

I do not get 4.5 miles a kWh though. just 3.7 miles or so.

330 miles at 6.9 pence would be 89 kWh so @6.9 pence that is £6.15.      Sort of Petrol price for a gallon of petrol and maybe 50 miles.

 

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

OK, the point about PFS was that they do crop up (in England) at least right slap bang at road side on most of the major roads, whereas the main large EV hubs are normally located at a convenient spot where the National Grid passes close by because of the huge power demands when all the chargers are in use, especially if they are of the 300+Kw types, others you will get throttling and power-sharing just as that Gridserve whistle-blower reported and also many other EV drivers on YouTube have likewise reported that they have seen their charging speed drop as other cars are being plugged in.

 

Also if you could wipe the fact that you charge at home so that you wouldn't stop for a charge and think outside your bubble can you then see the point that was making is correct. In other words, the trip being undertaken was to long for your EV (no home charging) without needing to visit a public charger, just as you did with the VW transporter, Both diesel pump and Charger are at the same location and you needed a comfort break (which was what I understood by the way it was written) then the ONLY difference between the EV and the ICE is the real-time filling of the ICE, I'm NOT interested in the overall time of doing both, just added time of filling a tank, the rest will be the same as you will still need time to the comfort break + eating etc in both cases.

wipe the fact that I can charge at home?  If we're going to start chaning the facts we can get any outcome you like. If I wipe the fact that there are filling stations then I can conclude that ICE cars are hopeless and will not go anywhere, or you could wipe the fact that public chargers exist  and then conclude EVs can't venture more than half their estimated range from home base. That's just stupid.

 

Charger hubs tend to be located along trunk roads, right beside the likes of starbucks, McDonalds, Costa etc or they are in every single motorway service area thanks to the government monopoly originally given to Ecotricity. That's now opened up and you have Tesla, Ionity, BP, Applegreen, Gridserve and others all providing service. Because petrol filling stations need electricity there's usually not much of an issue installing chargers which is why many filling stations like all of my local BP garages now have banks of ultra rapid chargers . 

This is one of our local filling stations. 

 

this is one that I used at a Shell garage in Thirsk (they offer cut price charging but not petrol after 10pm)

 

 

Basically, I only use public chargers that are either at my destination (hotel or office) or are at the roadside. I simply do not recognise this scenario you describe. Given that it costs £1000 per charger per year to have electricity connected, plus the cost of site rental etc I simply cannot see any investor wanting to build hubs in places that are not highly convenient for passing motorists. 

 

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by domhnall

MFG charging costs 79 pence a kWh. 

 

So 60 kWh @ 79 pence, £47.40 for 4.5 miles a kWh. 270 miles.

 

30kWh for me, £23.70 for 110 miles.

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall What tariff are you paying or are you generating electric?

 

Or really it is that you get very good efficiency and the length of the trip.

330 miles if you get 4.5 miles a kWh is 73 kWh.

500 pence divided by 73 kWh is 6.84 pence.

 

...............

So is the 6.9 pence a kWh expensive or just the MINI not that efficient doing 5 x 2 miles a day?

 

50 pence divided by 6.9 pence = 7.2 kWh.      20 miles divided by 7.2  = 2.7 miles per kWh.

 

But really more like 3 miles as losses charging on the 3 pin cable..

 

£5 would be 200 miles.

But if i was tailing you and getting 4.5 miles a kWh i would have had to stop to charge at 110-120 miles.

 

I do not get 4.5 miles a kWh though. just 3.7 miles or so.

330 miles at 6.9 pence would be 89 kWh so @6.9 pence that is £6.15.      Sort of Petrol price for a gallon of petrol and maybe 50 miles.

 

 

 

hard to say how many mikes I am adding per charge because I don't do long trips every day but the most I ever add at home is around a fiver's worth. Yesterday for example I tarvelled first to Edinburgh and then home and then to Glasgow and home. Last night I refilled for £1.12  (16 kWh at 7p on Intelligent Octopus Go). The other benefot for me is that when I plug the car in thenn the cost of runnign the central heating plummets. 

Last winter our most expensive month for total energy for the house and the car was £131 in January. My wife spent more than that on petrol alone whereas that figure included all my mileage plus the household cost of heating, lighting, cooking etc

I know the price of everything because i pay and no one is helping pay for charging and i am not driving as a commercial / business user.

Funnily they should know as there are Accountants / HMRS involved. 

 

 

Edited 9 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 minute ago, Ootohere said:

MFG charging costs 79 pence a kWh. 

unless you're on Octopus in which cae it is 73p. I wouldn't use them any more than I would buy Shell or BP diesel as it is too expensive. I was just makign the point that charger hubs are't hidden out of the way as @Graham Butcher was saying they often are. Like here at Alnwick, just off the A1 and right beside a BP station. Funnily enough charger hubs go right where filling stations are because that's where they are needed. This one has an excellent gastro pub and McDonalds right beside it so covers lots of dietary tastes.