8 hours ago, Lee01 said:

 

Nice that you're keeping up the long tradition of this thread going off topic 👍

But is it ? As commented above in such a scenario even those of you with solar would be fsked. If the roof survived the blast then the huge decrease in sunlight caused by a dust cloud would likely render the charging useless.

 There are places for hydrogen, but most of which are more suited for electricity/batteries: 

 

https://www.liebreich.com/the-clean-hydrogen-ladder-now-updated-to-v4-1/

This source has a very clear "register of interest" page, on it there is multiple fuel cell investments. The Bio page shows an impressive broad spread of knowledge and recognition. I would like to think he knows what he's talking about. 

 

For cars, he wrote: 

Quote

The one area in which hydrogen cars win is that you can refuel them quickly during long trips. Is this a killer app? I don’t see it. Most of us do so few trips over 250 miles each year that the disadvantage of the odd enforced charging stop will pale into insignificance by comparison to the enforced weekly trip to a hydrogen fuelling station. By the time EV charging is as ubiquitous as internet bandwidth, those who do drive over 250 miles at a go a bunch of times per year (and I am one of them) will get used to doing slightly longer natural breaks, which will also be good for road safety.

 

For domestic heating, he wrote: 

Quote

Heat pumps multiply, hydrogen divides. If you are looking at using the UK’s primary winter source of zero-carbon energy, offshore wind, heat pumps are not just a bit more efficient, they are about six times more efficient. Using wind power to generate hydrogen, and then using that for heat, would have a system efficiency of around 50%. Using the same power via a heat pump would have an average coefficient of performance of 3.

Even the most committed hydrogen boosters seem to be admitting that when it comes to new homes, heat pumps win. But they are spreading all sorts of misinformation about heat pump retrofits, claiming they require replacing all your radiators, re-insulating your home, replacing your grid connection. The fact is that modern heat pumps work at 50C or above, just like properly-installed boilers (most UK boilers are not properly installed, they are set to excessive circulating temperatures so they are hugely inefficient). Octopus Energy is looking to install heat pumps for £5,500 a time. Keep your heat pump chugging along in the background, responding to peaks and troughs in supply and demand, you won’t overload the local grid and you’ll help smooth demand for power.

 

Came up when I was looking at heat pumps. I'm experimenting with 45c flow temperature this winter (down from 50c last winter). So far with 4c outside yesterday it still warmed up the house nicely and more than quick enough. 

 

With last part of heat pump quote, I've heard of this concept before. Where the whole house can be considered a thermal storage. Can use it to store (eg. 1c higher to 0.5c below) energy and running heat pump smartly to help match demand to supply. 

Octopus Cozy tariff is similar concept, applied dumbly using variable time of use tariff pricing. https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus

39 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I'm experimenting with 45c flow temperature this winter (down from 50c last winter).

I appreciate this is drifting somewhat off topic but does the same apply to your hot water? 45c sounds quite low to me.

Just been watching this video about the Tesla Robo Cab and Robo Van, anyone here prepared to trust these autonomous vehicles? 

 

 

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

52 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

I appreciate this is drifting somewhat off topic but does the same apply to your hot water? 45c sounds quite low to me.

It's a modern condensing combi boiler (about 12-15 years old though, hence researching heat pump for replacing it between it before 20 years old). I'm hoping to get the boiler upgrade scheme (BUS).

 

I can independently set flow temperature for central heating and hot water. 2 dials one for each, display shows precise temperature that has been set.

 

Hot water I've set at 50c and it's more than hot enough for me. Not sure whether it goes through the condensing part. Yes, 45c is a bit low by the time it gets to upstairs shower and wife prefers scorching hot showers. (I may have tried at 45c )

Central heating does go through the condensing part, so the lower temperature the higher efficiency. Just like heat pumps.

 

 

 

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by wyx087

51 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Just been watching this video about the Tesla Robo Cab and Robo Van, anyone here prepared to trust these autonomous vehicles? 

 

 

 

A 2 door will not get a licence to carry passengers in the UK

 

I can see possibilities for airport car park shuttles for the buses  if the roads between were closed off to traffic

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Stonekeeper

46 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

It's a modern condensing combi boiler (about 12-15 years old though, hence researching heat pump for replacing it between it before 20 years old). I'm hoping to get the boiler upgrade scheme (BUS).

 

I can independently set flow temperature for central heating and hot water. 2 dials one for each, display shows precise temperature that has been set.

 

Hot water I've set at 50c and it's more than hot enough for me. Not sure whether it goes through the condensing part. Yes, 45c is a bit low by the time it gets to upstairs shower and wife prefers scorching hot showers. (I may have tried at 45c )

Central heating does go through the condensing part, so the lower temperature the higher efficiency. Just like heat pumps.

 

 

 

 

Just beware of legionella - I think any water 'stored' (eg in pipes / tanks) needs to be kept at around 60 degrees to prevent it - and I have a vague recollection that incudes DHW supplies.

1 minute ago, skomaz said:

Just beware of legionella - I think any water 'stored' (eg in pipes / tanks) needs to be kept at around 60 degrees to prevent it - and I have a vague recollection that incudes DHW supplies.

Thanks, yes it is a concern for stored DHW.

 

This is regularly mentioned for heat pump water tanks, so I'm well aware. It is only for stored hot water that stays unused for days. It is acceptable to have ~50c water in the hot water tank + heat cycle to kill off germs once a week if the tank gets refreshed every day.  (correctly sized tank)

 

Legionella isn't a concern for combi boiler or heat storage device such as Heat Geek mini (https://newarkcylinders.co.uk/heatgeekministore/) or zero-emission boiler (ZEB: https://www.tepeo.com/the-zeb/). Water is constantly moving throughout the system and there's no water storage.

 

The heat geek mini is very new, it is sized as combi replacement (with an outside heat pump). I'm really interested in it as I no longer have the space for the 200 L DHW tank required by the BUS grant.

 

As mentioned in the hydrogen ladder webpage, UK boiler install are often not done correctly. There is a lot of myths and typical install oversize the boiler without heat loss measurement because there is no penalty with gas boilers and people don't complain when rooms heat up very fast. This mindset of not doing measurements and oversizing must change for heat pumps to succeed like they do in Norway/Sweden.

 

 

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Came up when I was looking at heat pumps. I'm experimenting with 45c flow temperature this winter (down from 50c last winter). So far with 4c outside yesterday it still warmed up the house nicely and more than quick enough. 

 

With last part of heat pump quote, I've heard of this concept before. Where the whole house can be considered a thermal storage. Can use it to store (eg. 1c higher to 0.5c below) energy and running heat pump smartly to help match demand to supply. 

Octopus Cozy tariff is similar concept, applied dumbly using variable time of use tariff pricing. https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

It's a modern condensing combi boiler (about 12-15 years old though, hence researching heat pump for replacing it between it before 20 years old). I'm hoping to get the boiler upgrade scheme (BUS).

 

I can independently set flow temperature for central heating and hot water. 2 dials one for each, display shows precise temperature that has been set.

 

Hot water I've set at 50c and it's more than hot enough for me. Not sure whether it goes through the condensing part. Yes, 45c is a bit low by the time it gets to upstairs shower and wife prefers scorching hot showers. (I may have tried at 45c )

Central heating does go through the condensing part, so the lower temperature the higher efficiency. Just like heat pumps.

 

 

 

I've been doing the same for the past two winters. I've settled on 50C flow temp (oil boiler will not go lower) which seems to work OK for my house and radiator set up and 52C for DHW, which like yours has a long run to the shower. Oil combi boilers are not as fast to react as gas and have a small buffer tank, which is down to 45C by the time the burner lights but provides sufficiently hot water in winter. 

What the lower flow temps have shown is one radiator is incorrectly fitted so does not get fully warm and one small one in the utility is undersized. I'm confident now that a heat pump will work in our property when its time to replace the boiler. The other upside to these experiments is a tank of oil lasts 2 months longer than before, 🙂 

4 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

A 2 door will not get a licence to carry passengers in the UK

 

I can see possibilities for airport car park shuttles for the buses  if the roads between were closed off to traffic

According to Autocar, Tesla do not plan to sell the Robotaxi in the UK.

& when eventually there are Autonomous vehicles and Private Hire / Taxi / Hackney Carriage / Hansom Cabs there will be a brave new world.

 

No Licensed TAXI DRIVER in a LICENSED AUTONOMOUS CAB.    So that is one seat not required.

Who knows if there will be 2 passenger or 3 passenger vehicles with 2 doors and a rear hatch.  Or 2 doors, one at the front and one at the rear and the car can pull up at a pavement front on or back on. 

 

Actually who knows anything about the actual future of personal or public transport maybe 20 years on?

 

PS,

Haymarket Media Group / Autocar / What Car have no idea what Elon Musk or TESLA might or might not do in the future.

So anything they say or publish is from what they are told or find out.

Actually as far as factual stuff their journalists and editor gets lots wrong even with cars they actually are driving and not driving long enough or trying to see how stuff works.

 

PPS. @Graham Butcher  Maybe TESLA will not sell them, they might just run their vehicles and own them and place them at suitable locations.

They do not have to be as they are now when the Laws an Councils Rules on Hire Cabs, or Delivery Vehicles are changed in the UK. 

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Actually who knows anything about the actual future of personal or public transport maybe 20 years on?

 

You can virtually guarantee that if a driver less 2 seat taxi turns up at a pub at 11pm at some point half a dozen are likely to get in it🤣

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

& when eventually there are Autonomous vehicles and Private Hire / Taxi / Hackney Carriage / Hansom Cabs there will be a brave new world.

 

No Licensed TAXI DRIVER in a LICENSED AUTONOMOUS CAB.    So that is one seat not required.

Who knows if there will be 2 passenger or 3 passenger vehicles with 2 doors and a rear hatch.  Or 2 doors, one at the front and one at the rear and the car can pull up at a pavement front on or back on. 

 

Actually who knows anything about the actual future of personal or public transport maybe 20 years on?

 

PS,

Haymarket Media Group / Autocar / What Car have no idea what Elon Musk or TESLA might or might not do in the future.

So anything they say or publish is from what they are told or find out.

Actually as far as factual stuff their journalists and editor gets lots wrong even with cars they actually are driving and not driving long enough or trying to see how stuff works.

 

PPS. @Graham Butcher  Maybe TESLA will not sell them, they might just run their vehicles and own them and place them at suitable locations.

They do not have to be as they are now when the Laws an Councils Rules on Hire Cabs, or Delivery Vehicles are changed in the UK. 

Apparently they say that Elon Musk has said that they will not be available in the UK, and apart from that, they are only 2 seaters so are useless for families and it is requirement for UK taxis and a bit of Google magic reveals the following, all of which currently rules out any chance of them coming to these shores.

 

I would have expected similar rules in the USA and most of the other countries as well?

 

Taxi Vehicle Licence

Vehicle specifications

Hackney Carriage specifications

The vehicle must meet the following specifications:

• Saloon vehicles shall not be more than 6 years old when first licensed and shall not have undertaken more than 60,000 miles.
• Transit vehicles shall be no more than 8 years old when first licensed
• London type taxis shall not be more than 10 years old when first licensed
• The age of vehicles will be judged by, so far as can be ascertained, the date of manufacture or first DVLA registration of the vehicle
• Vehicles shall have at least four doors and should not have an engine capacity of less than 1274cc
• They are to be suitable for carrying not less than 4 passengers in comfort with adequate luggage space
• Seating should be padded
• Slatted wooden seats are considered inadequate
• Where seats are continuous, 1ft 4ins. measured horizontally along the front of each seat should be allowed for each passenger
• Any vehicle which is constructed or adapted to seat more than 8 passengers cannot be licensed as a private hire vehicle

& what if a 6 seater turns up. 

 No driver just a Bouncer.

 

There will be no Pubs or 11 pm or 1 AM in the morning pick ups.

No Smoking outside either while pubs still do exist.             

@Graham Butcher  You just take things too serious i think. 

 

Open your eyes and your mind, and think before mentioning the rest of the world. 

 

Uber cars were allowed up to 16 years old.

Things change. 

 

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

I wonder if there's anything in the Automated Vehicles Act (NB not EV specific legislation)  passed in May of this year that would be applicable to "for hire" scenarios


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/self-driving-vehicles-set-to-be-on-roads-by-2026-as-automated-vehicles-act-becomes-law

Footnote: Appears this may be the relevant section

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2024/10/part/1/chapter/2/enacted

@Graham Butcher New World, New Technology, New Laws.

Technically such vehicles wouldn't be Taxis so therefore current Taxi legislation wouldn't apply  ;o)

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Winston_Woof

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher  You just take things too serious i think. 

 

Open your eyes and your mind, and think before mentioning the rest of the world. 

 

Uber cars were allowed up to 16 years old.

Things change. 

 

 

Of course things change  but then I don't have the powers of Mystic Meg who was supposed to be able to foresee the future, and neither do you.

25 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Of course things change  but then I don't have the powers of Mystic Meg who was supposed to be able to foresee the future, and neither do you.

I don’t need a Crystal Ball, the legislation for operators for vehicle use without user in charge (ie. a “robotaxi” type vehicle has already been passed)

39 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

I don’t need a Crystal Ball, the legislation for operators for vehicle use without user in charge (ie. a “robotaxi” type vehicle has already been passed)

I don't believe that legislation and the terminology relates to taxis but the autonomous driving of cars fitted such equipment, like the Tesla autopilot. Legal jargon can be very confusing I admit, but I could not find any sign of the mention of hackney carriages, private hire, taxi or for hire in that document, I may wrong on that however, so we shall have to wait for further developments.

Edited 14 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I don't believe that legislation and the terminology relates to taxis but the autonomous driving of cars fitted such equipment, like the Tesla autopilot. Legal jargon can be very confusing I admit, but I could not find any sign of the mention of hackney carriages, private hire, taxi or for hire in that document, I may wrong on that however, so we shall have to wait for further developments.

Correct there is no mention of taxis, hackney cabs etc  but that's because (IMHO but I'm not a qualified lawyer) it appears to supercede (or at least gives the Secretary of State the option by further legislation to be specific), existing vehicle & driver licensing with a new category specifically for Automated Vehicles , ie licensed Operators of no user in charge journeys to replace those activities currently undertaken by licensed taxi drivers in licensed vehicles etc..

ie



 

So rather than outright banning them why not concentrate efforts on somehow "filtering" the emissions to reduce them? Gets rid of waste whilst producing power.

Burning rubbish now UK’s dirtiest form of power

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3wxgje5pwo

Please remember differences with England / Wales & Scotland, and Taxi Licencesand Private hire / Uber.

Differences between London and other Cities or Councils.  Much the same but sometimes quite different rules and regs.

But a cars a car, but not all suitable, 4 passenger min and 4 doors and sometimes no window tints, and sometimes Executive Transport with total privacy glass, and stretched limos.   Then Motorbike Taxis, transporters but they appear to be having Insurance issues with paying customers.  But then we have Trikes doing Tourist / Visitor trips into the countryside in the 4 countries of the UK. 

 

................

On the radio this morning was a discussion over very large Pick Up trucks being imported to the EU and UK on an industrial scale.

Not EU Type Approved vehicles brought in under the IVA which is intended for Individual specialist vehicles, Agricultural, Emergency services, Custom, Modified, Kit builds etc.  

There are authorities or organisations concerned about the loop hole allowing vehicles in that will not meet EU / UK emission tests, safety tests etc.

 

Radio 5, Wake up to money.

@46 minutes.

http://bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0023xrn

 

 

 

Edited 15 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

14 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Please remember differences with England / Wales & Scotland, and Taxi Licencesand Private hire / Uber.

But a cars a car, but not all suitable, 4 passenger min and 4 doors and sometimes no window tints, and sometimes Executive Transport with total privacy glass, and stretched limos.   Then Motorbike Taxis, transporters but they appear to be having Insurance issues with paying customers.  But then we have Trikes doing Tourist / Visitor trips into the countryside in the 4 countries of the UK. 

 

 

 

 

Acknowledged on the difference  however the new Automated Vehicles Act 2024 appears to contain wording (as shown above) that would allow the Secretary for State to supercede these requirements by Introducing a new Operators License in specific circumstances


NB Aye I saw that  about Motorcycle Taxis (especially in London where they are ideal) 😞

Dundee Council encouraged EV Taxis, allowed use of Council Car Parks and Chargers, while next door Angus Council were years behind approving EV Taxis.

There were Dundee Licensed Taxis taking passengers out of Dundee and to Angus.

Angus Taxi Drivers with an EV had to hold a Licence / Plate for Dundee and go from their home location to do their trade in Dundee.

It was a farce. 

 

................

There are still Limo Bike / Taxi services, and then there are like this.

Edited 15 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

We have had electric taxis for a while now in Chelmsford.