WLTP

Way less than predicted.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

WLTP

Way less than predicted.

 

 

 

A bit basic and many cars have more than 3 option. SCENIC has 4 and in all but ECO you can do some configuring. ECO limits to 71 mph, hardly a tight limit but is still a bit of a pain sometimes.

Some cars have regen on the gearstick, oft only low or high, Megane and Scenic have 4 levels on paddles, left paddle raises, right paddle lowers. Level 1 is no reg which is great for freewheeling and preserving momentum then a low medium and high but not quite one pedal driving.

 

I am already exceeding tge WLTP of the Scenic by about 5%, as I already do in the Zoe. Highish tyre pressures help, bit of drafting sometimes. Both the Zoe and Scenic have one or two kwh below zero percent. Only seen the turtle once in well over 3 years.

 

This is not strictly all about electric cars, but much of what Harry is talking about is also applicable to electric cars and so here are his thoughts about the state of the car market.

 

 

17 hours ago, Ootohere said:

WLTP

Way less than predicted.

 

 

 

WLTP (which applies to all cars not just EVs) is not meant to show what you can get in the real world but to provide a figure from a standardised test so you can compare one car with another. So long as you realise that then it's a useful measure. But I regularly exceed WLTP on the Enyaq in daily driving. Was getting 5.5 m/kWh this morning

 

20 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

WLTP (which applies to all cars not just EVs) is not meant to show what you can get in the real world but to provide a figure from a standardised test so you can compare one car with another. So long as you realise that then it's a useful measure. But I regularly exceed WLTP on the Enyaq in daily driving. Was getting 5.5 m/kWh this morning

 

 

Is your 2nd enyaq the 80 ?

 

I bit the bullet and decided to go for an ev with an Enyaq 60 in Sept. So far very happy with it but i haven't yet been far.

 

Seems to suit my average weekly mileage of around 100. to the point where i don't see the need for a7kw charger at home.

 

Do you think I will change my mind when i drive 256 miles to Devon next summer?

 

Once i get there for a fortnight stay i have destination charging for tootling around whilst there too.

@domhnall I did and do know all about how for comparisons.

 

Pretty much all the BEV WLTP,s are battery gross or net, say 50 kWh and say they do 5 miles a kWh.  So 50 x 5 =250.

 

But as we know that might really really for many not even be 4 miles a kWh, so 50 x 4 = 200.

But really really the average is 3.7 miles a kWh, so 185.  

maybe at worst in UK cold weather 3.5 miles a kWh. 175 when doing OK.

 

Great to compare once you know which are nearer to the Possible, Tesla, your Skoda or what ever, and Stallantis vehicles maybe nothing like the WLTP figures. 

 

 

 

Maybe like the the websites for ICE vehicles where people put in their fuel use there is something for EV,s in the UK.

 

Where people log miles and the vehicles efficiency, Real World.

It would be great to see which of the EV,s on UK roads that exceed WLTP figures over days, weeks, months, the seasons.

 

Obviously there are some magazine / publications doing Team Tests, Convoy journeys showing how much less than the WLTP published figures they get not driving to a WLTP regime & out on roads.

 

 

Edited 4 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Pretty much all the BEV WLTP,s are battery gross or net, say 50 kWh and say they do 5 miles a kWh.  So 50 x 5 =250.

Do WLTP public battery size? I thought it only tested for range.

 

I wish using gross battery capacity should be illegal. Nissan Leaf 24 kWh is 24 kWh gross, in actual fact usable is just less than 22 kWh when new. Usable is all that matters to the end user.

The Manufacturers give the not clear what the battery size is to potential buyers.  Gross or Usable. 

Nobody is checking their homework among the EU Commissioners.

The World Wide Harmonised Testing, is that ridiculous that the World other than EU / Europe -UK could not care less about the cheaters. 

42 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Do WLTP public battery size? I thought it only tested for range.

 

I wish using gross battery capacity should be illegal. Nissan Leaf 24 kWh is 24 kWh gross, in actual fact usable is just less than 22 kWh when new. Usable is all that matters to the end user.

 

Zoe ZE50 implies 50 kWs, actually 52 usable and actual 55 kWs if you want to run in to the Turtle Zone and get another dozen or so miles.

 

9 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

WLTP (which applies to all cars not just EVs) is not meant to show what you can get in the real world but to provide a figure from a standardised test so you can compare one car with another. So long as you realise that then it's a useful measure. But I regularly exceed WLTP on the Enyaq in daily driving. Was getting 5.5 m/kWh this morning

 

Yes, we all get that the idea is a means of comparison to help buyers decide which model to opt for, but when it seems that most people are actually getting nowhere near those figures then you have to ask, what is the point of them. It also begs the question about how can we trust anything else that they claim about a vehicle, like its CO2 figures, the amount NOx etc. Surely it would more beneficial if they were more realistic and gave figures that most drivers could actually achieve and maybe slightly better, then we could all make far better informed decisions when selecting our next cars and that could all be then for the right reasons. 

I think we sometimes forget that we on this forum are a very very small percentage of car owners in the UK. 
 

Not only that but those amongst us discussing in this specific thread/theme are a small percentage of that small percentage. 
 

 

The voice from the outer world, well Cornwall, has got a 6 months ban for speeding, wonder if it was in an EV ?

Is it you have to either have several speeding tickets for the 10% plus 2,3, 4 mph or be clocked at over 30 mph over this nominal plus 10% + 2 mph etc 

Think it might be the former as he said this last court session for speeding gave him another 4 points taking him to 13 point in total hence the 6 month ban. 

 

Sorry to hear it has curtailed his livelihood and especially sorry to hear he has cataracts which need to be treated but sounds like he was not adhering to systems that most professional drivers have.  One can see truck drivers playing the percentages ie driving at what we see on our speedometers as 53 or 54 in a 50 mpg zone.  The know there actual speed is probably 51 or 52 and within tolerance.

 

It would be nice to hear him praise the systems that EVs particularly have ie digital instrumentation, Google maps, traffic signal reading, and over speed warning.  Even sped limiting, my Scenic will not do over an indicate 71 mph in ECO mode and it has a top speed of only 90 mph.     

 

A story of education for many of us who need to driver for our jobs which I will take away.  The days of my motorcycle buddies doing the near 120 miles from Bristol to Ivybridge or Plymouth in not much over an hour, it is about 120 miles, or the M25 orbital, 117 miles, in an hour are long gone.  Just sit back stay within the limits, calibrate your speedometer with GPS and do not get in to the situation of this wally.   Keep speeding on the race track please.  

 

 

Some police forces only allow 1mph over the limit. My car has the capablity of having a digital speedo as well on display. I also have 2 different GPS speedos which are 4mph lower than the cars ones, so I drive by the GPS ones and have done so for years. Agreed, stay within the limits and protect your license, makes perfect sense. 

Which police forces in the UK only allow 1 mph over the posted / max speed limit and ticket/ prosecute / apply fines or offer a Speed Awareness Course?

 

There was a trial in Scotland on the stopping and advising and maybe having people fined for the Speeds Different from those applied in England & Wales. 

It ran for 1 year and was extended for a while longer.

........................

No Driver Awareness Course options for Speeders,

So No Ex Senior Police Officers like in England running companies providing these courses.   A Loads of money maker for these...

 

 

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

AI  is giving the results of Google / Search Engine keywords these days. 

Results need looked closer at, or maybe a memory of what happened when, what actually happened not what could happen as published by the media.

43 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

My car has the capability of having a digital speedo as well on display.

Yes and? A digital speed is more precise but not more accurate than an analogue using the same base sensor.

42 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

Yes and? A digital speed is more precise but not more accurate than an analogue using the same base sensor.

Correct but the most precise and accurate is the GPS based ones on my TomTom satnav and NextBase dashcam, both of which agree with each other 100% and they are what I generally use. When I use my ACC to maintain a maximum speed, I always set it to 31mph for a 30 limit, 42 for a 40 and 53 for a 50mph limit and then the GPS reads within the posted speed. I have yet to receive a speeding ticket and have been professionally driving for almost 60 years now,

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

My speedo is pretty accurate, reading 20mph at gps speed 19mph - this is the important one for Wales. Its a digital display, so easy to keep in the limits. The numpty in the video should have made use of the speedo in his cars, then he wouldn't be banned. I don't understand people being so stupid as to get banned under the totting up procedure, you've had at least 2 and most likely three 'warning' speeding fines before being banned. 

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Which police forces in the UK only allow 1 mph over the posted / max speed limit and ticket/ prosecute / apply fines or offer a Speed Awareness Course?

 

There was a trial in Scotland on the stopping and advising and maybe having people fined for the Speeds Different from those applied in England & Wales. 

It ran for 1 year and was extended for a while longer.

........................

No Driver Awareness Course options for Speeders,

So No Ex Senior Police Officers like in England running companies providing these courses.   A Loads of money maker for these...

 

 

 

Think it was Beford Police Commisioner who wanted to, raise some money. He has the M1 running through his patch. Think he was put down eventually.

 

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

Yes and? A digital speed is more precise but not more accurate than an analogue using the same base sensor.

 

Like my motorcycles with digital display they also over read by about 5%.

I think it is deliberately made so. Therefore with tyres with absolute minimum tread, maybe a bit underinflated too it will still not under display tge speed so vehicle makers, even when they can be within 1 or 2 percent, overread by 5 % or so.  Find it odd that at least with Renault the distance measuring seems to under read by about 3 or 4%, odd.

 

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Like my motorcycles with digital display they also over read by about 5%.

I think it is deliberately made so. Therefore with tyres with absolute minimum tread, maybe a bit underinflated too it will still not under display tge speed so vehicle makers, even when they can be within 1 or 2 percent, overread by 5 % or so.  Find it odd that at least with Renault the distance measuring seems to under read by about 3 or 4%, odd.

 

They are supposed to read slightly over by a few percent but must never be below the actual speed. 

7 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

They are supposed to read slightly over by a few percent but must never be below the actual speed. 

To pass Type Approval they are allowed to over read by as much as 10%, but most manufacturers calibrate them to read between 5% and 7% over to allow some margin for different tyre options and worn tyres.

 

That is also what I've seen comparing the speedo and GPS on all the cars I've owned in the last 20 years.

The Nissan Leaf over reads by almost 10%. Driving 66 mph is 60/61 mph reading by GPS. It's so far out it's comical. Explains why Nissan drivers are always the slowest drivers 😛 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The Nissan Leaf over reads by almost 10%. Driving 66 mph is 60/61 mph reading by GPS. It's so far out it's comical. Explains why Nissan drivers are always the slowest drivers 😛 

 

Some Japanese and especially Italian bikes and cars, I am sure, deliberately were overreacting by 10% or sometimes a bit more.

 

Ie I have just had my Jota, Guzzi etc up to over 140 mph. Guy on Triumph or Norton said, I only had 125 mph on my Smiths speedo !

 

Helps sell these none English bikes in the speedo lies big time. Not cricket.