With Italian bikes, unreliable speedos was the least of your worries 😆

On 04/11/2024 at 14:07, Ootohere said:

@domhnall I did and do know all about how for comparisons.

 

Pretty much all the BEV WLTP,s are battery gross or net, say 50 kWh and say they do 5 miles a kWh.  So 50 x 5 =250.

 

But as we know that might really really for many not even be 4 miles a kWh, so 50 x 4 = 200.

But really really the average is 3.7 miles a kWh, so 185.  

maybe at worst in UK cold weather 3.5 miles a kWh. 175 when doing OK.

 

Great to compare once you know which are nearer to the Possible, Tesla, your Skoda or what ever, and Stallantis vehicles maybe nothing like the WLTP figures. 

 

 

 

 

I just did Kidderminster to Livingston.

• 295 miles.
• Averaged 3.9 m/kWh.
• On the motorway it was 4.2 average but when I came off for the last hour on twisty, hilly country roads it declined a bit.
• I needed three stops, two for toilet and one for food.

I plugged in while I ate but stopped it after I had ordered and paid for my food (it's OK there were plenty chargers available) . In truth the car would have got home with 1% left after 295 miles. This was in November, with rain and 9 degrees. So not exactly summer weather. Autopilot set to the legal limit - it auto adjusts when it sees speed limits. I got paid £73 by my employer in expenses, charging cost me £8.63 ish from memory. 

The lasagna plus glass of sparkling water at Tebay cost me £13.57. Food is more expensive than charging. (it's OK work paid for that too)

On 04/11/2024 at 13:16, Stonekeeper said:

 

Is your 2nd enyaq the 80 ?

 

I bit the bullet and decided to go for an ev with an Enyaq 60 in Sept. So far very happy with it but i haven't yet been far.

 

Seems to suit my average weekly mileage of around 100. to the point where i don't see the need for a7kw charger at home.

 

Do you think I will change my mind when i drive 256 miles to Devon next summer?

 

Once i get there for a fortnight stay i have destination charging for tootling around whilst there too.

 

No it's the 85. The 60 was my old one. Used to cover Edinburgh to Milton Keynes with no issues. 

This video was a trip I made with the 60 from Rugby back to West Lothian in foul weather when the A1 was blocked suddenly and I had to do somethign like a 50 mile detour. *spoiler alert* it was fine 

 

oops

@domhnall Didn't realise that was you. Have seen many of your youtube videos. Actually one of the reasons I chose it.

UK’s largest onshore wind farm could be built in Greater Manchester

 

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/uks-largest-onshore-wind-farm-could-be-built-in-greater-manchester/

@domhnall  now getting 4.2 miles or 3.9 kWh average is great,  it takes those 5.5 miles a kWh to get an average like that really.

 

Now getting a 5 miles a kWh average at the worst in the UK does have cars matching the WLTP figures and then Comparisons mean something.

 

People just need to know what is what as far as the likely hood of getting the range at UK speeds over several hundreds of miles with different vehicles.

 

As to the Much Cheapness to charge / travel and an employer or someone else paying, that is the beauty of being a business / commercial driver.

Nice if there is enough being paid over and above the costs to have some money in the hipper. 

 

You and @lol-lol could get together at a nice charging hub and compare expenses.

16 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall  now getting 4.2 miles or 3.9 kWh average is great,  it takes those 5.5 miles a kWh to get an average like that really.

 

Now getting a 5 miles a kWh average at the worst in the UK does have cars matching the WLTP figures and then Comparisons mean something.

 

People just need to know what is what as far as the likely hood of getting the range at UK speeds over several hundreds of miles with different vehicles.

 

As to the Much Cheapness to charge / travel and an employer or someone else paying, that is the beauty of being a business / commercial driver.

Nice if there is enough being paid over and above the costs to have some money in the hipper. 

 

You and @lol-lol could get together at a nice charging hub and compare expenses.

even if I wasn't being paid £8.63 is way cheaper than petrol. Public transport for that trip came in at over £200 (train fare plus taxis from station to hotel).  Don't forget this was a return trip. It was possible to get there for a fiver and would have been possible to get back for free, I happened to choose to public charge for reassurance (who want to live right on the edge) and for the purposes of the youtube video. I could have done the while trip for £5 and then been paid £146 in expenses. That's mileage at 24p a mile, whereas the official approved rate is 45p. I need to claim the balance back in tax relief. 

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by domhnall

38 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

@domhnall Didn't realise that was you. Have seen many of your youtube videos. Actually one of the reasons I chose it.

 

glad they help, that'#s really the whole point. Youtube videos persuaded me that the Nissan Leaf was OK, so I am now doing the same for my current car. 

On 04/11/2024 at 13:16, Stonekeeper said:

 

Is your 2nd enyaq the 80 ?

 

I bit the bullet and decided to go for an ev with an Enyaq 60 in Sept. So far very happy with it but i haven't yet been far.

 

Seems to suit my average weekly mileage of around 100. to the point where i don't see the need for a7kw charger at home.

 

Do you think I will change my mind when i drive 256 miles to Devon next summer?

 

Once i get there for a fortnight stay i have destination charging for tootling around whilst there too.

 PS in my 295 mile trip last week I needed to stop 3 times. The car didn't need to stop once. Unless you're wearing nappies / Tena for men then you will need to stop anyway so you can replenish the battery while you "empty your tank" 😁

@domhnall The post by me and then the discussion was WLTP was it not,   WAY LESS THAN PREDICTED i posted.

 

So you tell me / us how you better the WLTP, and how much cheapness charging can be.

That is one Truth of Electric Vehicles. 

When that is the common thing, realistic manufacturers published ranges, best and worst, a Public Charging at a fair cost and not something like double a domestic tariff to 10 times an Offpeak Domestic tariff it will maybe be easier or more economic for those not Charging at Home, or those not being paid to charge their vehicle to go EV. 

37 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall The post by me and then the discussion was WLTP was it not,   WAY LESS THAN PREDICTED i posted.

 

So you tell me / us how you better the WLTP, and how much cheapness charging can be.

That is one Truth of Electric Vehicles. 

When that is the common thing, realistic manufacturers published ranges, best and worst, a Public Charging at a fair cost and not something like double a domestic tariff to 10 times an Offpeak Domestic tariff it will maybe be easier or more economic for those not Charging at Home, or those not being paid to charge their vehicle to go EV. 

dunno I just drive and like I said yesterday I got 5.2 m/kWh on the commute to work. sometimes you get better performance than the manufacturer suggests, sometimes not. Same was true in fossil cars. 

As for public charging, what do you mean by fair? Fair to whom?

The CPOs have faced an over 500% increase in their standing charges this year. It now costs them over  £1,000 just to have electricity connected to a single DC charger. Is that fair?

Then they have to pay staff, office costs, maintenance, site rental, wayleaves. Shoudl they underpay staff to help keep things "fair" for the customer? Is that fair on the staff?
There was a post on linkedin this morning by a land agent saying it's fair that they should charge CPOs for the future value of land at sites not what it is worth to them today, ie charge based on what a site will be worth in the future when every car is electric and demand is much greater, so they think it is fair they should max out their revenue now despite the fact that the CPOs are all loss making.  They think it's fair that motorists should pay them because it's their land so it's fair you and I should pay for using it. You may think that's unfair of course. 

And then on top of all those costs they need to buy electricity on a business tariff - thiose aren't artifically capped by Government, in fact energy providers are covering the cost of your cheap oower at home by charging more to business customers .That's probably not fair either. 

Sadly life is not always fair and what's fair for you may be unfair for others. 

 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall  now getting 4.2 miles or 3.9 kWh average is great,  it takes those 5.5 miles a kWh to get an average like that really.

 

 

No not at all, that was the average for that trip only not longer term. 

47 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 PS in my 295 mile trip last week I needed to stop 3 times. The car didn't need to stop once. Unless you're wearing nappies / Tena for men then you will need to stop anyway so you can replenish the battery while you "empty your tank" 😁

Surely, this is an age related thing. I do find that I need to empty my tank far more as I get older than I did when I was younger, but I have yet to see anyone here openly admit everyone's need for a comfort break is not the same as anyone else's and nor is theirs the same as it was when they were younger, so, please can I respectively ask that posters stop treating others who beg to differ as if they either lairs or completely mad and putting other people at risk. Fact is everyone is different, my son who is in his forties can go all day long (over 8 hours) without the need for a comfort break or the need to stuff either food or drink down his neck, so let's get real can we? 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Surely, this is an age related thing. I do find that I need to empty my tank far more as I get older than I did when I was younger, but I have yet to see anyone here openly admit everyone's need for a comfort break is not the same as anyone else's and nor is theirs the same as it was when they were younger, so, please can I respectively ask that posters stop treating others who beg to differ as if they either lairs or completely mad and putting other people at risk. Fact is everyone is different, my son who is in his forties can go all day long (over 8 hours) without the need for a comfort break or the need to stuff either food or drink down his neck, so let's get real can we? 

 

Driving tired can be dangerous

Driver fatigue causes hundreds of road accidents each year. And these accidents are roughly 50% more likely¹ to result in death or serious injury. When drivers fall asleep, the police find no signs of braking, or any avoiding actions, so they tend to result in higher-speed collisions.

We all know we shouldn’t drive when we’re too tired, but sometimes weather, logistics, lack of alternatives or time constraints² mean we do anyway. However, driving while fatigued or sleepy leads to significant impairment of our driving performance³, increases reaction times and reduces attention, compromising decision-making and our ability to control the vehicle. It’s incredibly risky.
 

Drink a coffee. Have a rest. And survive.
 

The facts

• Fatigue was identified as a contributory factor in 17% of all fatal road collisions in Scotland.⁴
• A quarter of accidents where tiredness was a factor resulted in death.⁵
• A ‘microsleep’ occurs when someone nods off for between two and 30 seconds without realising or remembering it, often known as head-nodding. It usually happens when people are tired but trying to stay awake, most common in monotonous situations, such as motorway driving at night.
• A person who drives after being awake for 17 hours has impaired driving skills comparable to a driver with a 50mg/100ml blood alcohol level – the legal limit.
• Nearly two-fifths of UK drivers (37%) say they have been so tired they were scared they would fall asleep when driving.⁶
• Almost half of UK drivers (49%) admitted driving after less than five hours’ sleep, highlighting that many drivers continue to drive when tired.⁷
• Experts estimate driver fatigue crashes are under-reported, and are likely to account for up to 20 per cent of all UK vehicle collisions, and up to one quarter of fatal and serious crashes.⁸

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by domhnall

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Surely, this is an age related thing. I do find that I need to empty my tank far more as I get older than I did when I was younger, but I have yet to see anyone here openly admit everyone's need for a comfort break is not the same as anyone else's and nor is theirs the same as it was when they were younger, so, please can I respectively ask that posters stop treating others who beg to differ as if they either lairs or completely mad and putting other people at risk. Fact is everyone is different, my son who is in his forties can go all day long (over 8 hours) without the need for a comfort break or the need to stuff either food or drink down his neck, so let's get real can we? 

 

I left Kidderminster at 2pm and got home at 9pm. It's not good to eat immediately before going to bed so following your advice about not "stuffing food" down my neck I would have eaten nothign from noon until breakfast the next day. Why shoudl I have to do that? I mean you and yours presumably stuff food down your nexts every evening too?

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Surely, this is an age related thing. I do find that I need to empty my tank far more as I get older than I did when I was younger, but I have yet to see anyone here openly admit everyone's need for a comfort break is not the same as anyone else's and nor is theirs the same as it was when they were younger, so, please can I respectively ask that posters stop treating others who beg to differ as if they either lairs or completely mad and putting other people at risk. Fact is everyone is different, my son who is in his forties can go all day long (over 8 hours) without the need for a comfort break or the need to stuff either food or drink down his neck, so let's get real can we? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by domhnall

9 minutes ago, domhnall said:

dunno I just drive and like I said yesterday I got 5.2 m/kWh on the commute to work. sometimes you get better performance than the manufacturer suggests, sometimes not. Same was true in fossil cars. 

As for public charging, what do you mean by fair? Fair to whom?

The CPOs have faced an over 500% increase in their standing charges this year. It now costs them over  £1,000 just to have electricity connected to a single DC charger. Is that fair?

Then they have to pay staff, office costs, maintenance, site rental, wayleaves. Shoudl they underpay staff to help keep things "fair" for the customer? Is that fair on the staff?
There was a post on linkedin this morning by a land agent saying it's fair that they should charge CPOs for the future value of land at sites not what it is worth to them today, ie charge based on what a site will be worth in the future when every car is electric and demand is much greater, so they think it is fair they should max out their revenue now despite the fact that the CPOs are all loss making.  They think it's fair that motorists should pay them because it's their land so it's fair you and I should pay for using it. You may think that's unfair of course. 

And then on top of all those costs they need to buy electricity on a business tariff - thiose aren't artifically capped by Government, in fact energy providers are covering the cost of your cheap oower at home by charging more to business customers .That's probably not fair either. 

Sadly life is not always fair and what's  fair for you may be unfair for others. 

 

So is it fair to mandate to people buying new cars that they have to buy electric and also make their running costs increase exponentially. Yes I understand that they still do have an opportunity to buy an ICE car (for the time being) but 

 

3 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

Driving tired can be dangerous

Driver fatigue causes hundreds of road accidents each year. And these accidents are roughly 50% more likely¹ to result in death or serious injury. When drivers fall asleep, the police find no signs of braking, or any avoiding actions, so they tend to result in higher-speed collisions.

We all know we shouldn’t drive when we’re too tired, but sometimes weather, logistics, lack of alternatives or time constraints² mean we do anyway. However, driving while fatigued or sleepy leads to significant impairment of our driving performance³, increases reaction times and reduces attention, compromising decision-making and our ability to control the vehicle. It’s incredibly risky.
 

Drink a coffee. Have a rest. And survive.
 

The facts

• Fatigue was identified as a contributory factor in 17% of all fatal road collisions in Scotland.⁴
• A quarter of accidents where tiredness was a factor resulted in death.⁵
• A ‘microsleep’ occurs when someone nods off for between two and 30 seconds without realising or remembering it, often known as head-nodding. It usually happens when people are tired but trying to stay awake, most common in monotonous situations, such as motorway driving at night.
• A person who drives after being awake for 17 hours has impaired driving skills comparable to a driver with a 50mg/100ml blood alcohol level – the legal limit.
• Nearly two-fifths of UK drivers (37%) say they have been so tired they were scared they would fall asleep when driving.⁶
• Almost half of UK drivers (49%) admitted driving after less than five hours’ sleep, highlighting that many drivers continue to drive when tired.⁷
• Experts estimate driver fatigue crashes are under-reported, and are likely to account for up to 20 per cent of all UK vehicle collisions, and up to one quarter of fatal and serious crashes.⁸

The operative word here is CAN it does not automatically mean that everyone that does not adhere to your routine is automatically a real and positive danger to themselves and others. Yes, anyone who does drive when they are feeling tired is an idiot and a real risk at large, but the that they don't take a break every 2 to 3 hours but take them at longer intervals  is a matter for them to decide.

 

What is not mentioned in the FACTS you posted is what are the reasons why those drivers did/do what they did/do for instance for not everybody requires the same amount of sleep. A person doing hard physical labour more than likely needs more sleep than someone doing less strenuous work.

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

So is it fair to mandate to people buying new cars that they have to buy electric and also make their running costs increase exponentially. Yes I understand that they still do have an opportunity to buy an ICE car (for the time being) but 

 

The operative word here is CAN it does not automatically mean that everyone that does not adhere to your routine is automatically a real and positive danger to themselves and others. Yes, anyone who does drive when they are feeling tired is an idiot and a real risk at large, but the that they don't take a break every 2 to 3 hours but take them at longer intervals  is a matter for them to decide.

 

What is not mentioned in the FACTS you posted is what are the reasons why those drivers did/do what they did/do for instance for not everybody requires the same amount of sleep. A person doing hard physical labour more than likely needs more sleep than someone doing less strenuous work.

depends, my employer tracks my driving and rest breaks via an app and it is a disciplinary matter to go against the rules on breaks set out in the highway code. I am fairly sure every one of those killed by fatigue thought they were fine and those rules were for other lesser people. 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

So is it fair to mandate to people buying new cars that they have to buy electric and also make their running costs increase exponentially. Yes I understand that they still do have an opportunity to buy an ICE car (for the time being) but 

 

 

Yes because despite the facts about fossil fuels being finite, and the fact that air pollution kills tens of thousands of our people every year and the fact that it causes asthma (and apparently demeonti too) in so many others, the selfish attitude of many is "I'm all right jack" so if they can't be persuaded to reduce their impact on others and insist on pursuing damaging behaviour then the nbest way to change their behaviour is to give them a financial incentive. 

 

15 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

I left Kidderminster at 2pm and got home at 9pm. It's not good to eat immediately before going to bed so following your advice about not "stuffing food" down my neck I would have eaten nothign from noon until breakfast the next day. Why shoudl I have to do that? I mean you and yours presumably stuff food down your nexts every evening too?

There you go again, basing everything on your experience, so everyone should be following your example? What if you left Kidderminster at 9.00am and got home at 4.00pm, is that OK then to eat at that time? Surely you don't go to bed so early, do you?

 

I'm glad and pleased that practise what you feel is right for you, and that is precisely what is the correct thing to do as only you know how you feel hunger wise and tiredness wise and comfort break wise.  Some people do other despicable things like murder each other, attack others etc, but normal sane people don't do these things, do they? Fact is that we all responsible for our own actions in life. 

21 minutes ago, domhnall said:

depends, my employer tracks my driving and rest breaks via an app and it is a disciplinary matter to go against the rules on breaks set out in the highway code. I am fairly sure every one of those killed by fatigue thought they were fine and those rules were for other lesser people. 

 Many of these events where people have been killed by fatigue were quite possibly by lesser employers than you have who instead apply the opposite pressure on their staff to meet deadlines etc, how do you square that situation?

 

I know a person who has to stop at every motorway services for a break, otherwise on lesser roads, stops every hour for a break, but what he doesn't do is to is pretend that he is doing the right thing and keep on about it, he is just doing what he feels is right for him.

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

42 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

 

Very true, and the same can and does apply in equal measures when people are wide awake and fully alert, that's the nature of accidents, sad but its true.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Fact is everyone is different, my son who is in his forties can go all day long (over 8 hours) without the need for a comfort break or the need to stuff either food or drink down his neck, so let's get real can we? 

8 hours driving at average of 60 mph motorway = 480 miles.

A 350 miles any weather range EV (Model 3 LR RWD at just £45k) can comfortably do that with a quick 20min stop at 5 hour mark.

 

Let's get real, EV range is no longer a concern these days.

Let's get more real, charging is no longer a concern midlands and south, more and more hubs are coming online:

 

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by wyx087

19 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Let's get more real, charging is no longer a concern midlands and south, more and more hubs are coming online:

But still a concern in other regions less well served by public charging hubs.