4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

new BEVs are not selling like hot cakes and outstripping supply as many other people are suggesting.

This is what I hear more these days, deals deals deals. I've not heard of any "supply outstrip demand" talks for EV after ~2024.

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Renault offering 4 years interest free and a proce thousands less than they were 2 or 3 years ago. Then add in the UK government grant. Wow what a deal.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Every BEV has to be massively subsidized in order to get companies to purchase them

Where is this massive subsidy?

£1500 is far cry from subsidies seen during 2010's.

5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Where is this massive subsidy?

£1500 is far cry from subsidies seen during 2010's.

£1,500 off is more than ICE drivers get, and there are bigger grants available on some cars. What you are also failing to see or accept is that for every person buying a BEV with government grant on it, that grant is actually being paid by not the government but the average person in the street even if they agree with it or not, they get zero choice in the matter, so how is that fair that people with the means off street parking / charging are able to buy a car partly funded by everyone else, some of whom would dearly love to be able to join the BEV clan but are prevented from doing so by their place of resisdence, but being forced into assisting others that are more likely to be in a better position to actually pay the full asking price for car, with out the grant but will greedily gobble it up?

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

£1,500 off is more than ICE drivers get, and there are bigger grants available on some cars.

There isn't one eligible for the full £3750 yet. The criteria is extremely strict.

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

What you are also failing to see or accept is that for every person buying a BEV with government grant on it, that grant is actually being paid by not the government but the average person in the street even if they agree with it or not, they get zero choice in the matter

This is exactly how government funding works in everything. Not just cars.

Eg. that change to the road I don't agree? I also feels like I have no say in them.

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

being forced into assisting others that are more likely to be in a better position to actually pay the full asking price for car, with out the grant but will greedily gobble it up?

I also personally don't agree that EV need subsidy anymore. I've previously voiced it in this very thread.

But I can also see government are being hounded by industry lobbyist for more targeted funds so that failing legacy manufacturers wouldn't disappear. This current subsidy is exactly that, targetted funding for a few local manufacturers.

So don't get mad at people buying EV's. They also have no choice to participate in a rigged game that only the house will win.

Remember articles like these:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y7x3jgw7no

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/mar/13/car-industry-urges-uk-government-to-create-new-ev-incentives

https://parliamentnews.co.uk/uk-carmakers-warn-ev-rules-risk-jobs-investment

And after intense lobbying, the result:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/backing-british-business-prime-minister-unveils-plan-to-support-carmakers

"unveils plan to support carmakers"

It's not subsidy for people buying these.

Edited 21 September, 202521 Sep by wyx087

18 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

£1,500 off is more than ICE drivers get, and there are bigger grants available on some cars. What you are also failing to see or accept is that for every person buying a BEV with government grant on it, that grant is actually being paid by not the government but the average person in the street even if they agree with it or not, they get zero choice in the matter, so how is that fair that people with the means off street parking / charging are able to buy a car partly funded by everyone else, some of whom would dearly love to be able to join the BEV clan but are prevented from doing so by their place of resisdence, but being forced into assisting others that are more likely to be in a better position to actually pay the full asking price for car, with out the grant but will greedily gobble it up?

It is effectively a small part of what would collected in the 20% of the VAT.

Government still collects load of tax on new car sales.

Now the UK insurance industry it seems is putting the boot in.

Edited 21 September, 202521 Sep by Graham Butcher

Do you have or know anyone who has one of these cars Citroën C3, ë-C3, C3 Aircross and ë-C3 Aircross, if so are you or they aware of the Citroën No Drive order for these cars due to the pedal box being incorrect and could cause loss of brakes.

Citroen issues no-drive notice for four models over brake worries

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Now the UK insurance industry it seems is putting the boot in.

This guy's is an Australian an not British also 1000% anti EV because it gets him yt likes

If you're gonna post some thing post it about the country we live in not one the other side of the world !

I've had or have 3 ev's in the last 3years and none were brought with government help

2 were/are on PcP one is hp the latter was only £7750 and well speced used car .

21 minutes ago, Redestate said:

This guy's is an Australian an not British also 1000% anti EV because it gets him yt likes

If you're gonna post some thing post it about the country we live in not one the other side of the world !

I've had or have 3 ev's in the last 3years and none were brought with government help

2 were/are on PcP one is hp the latter was only £7750 and well speced used car .

That strongly suggests that you never watched the video or if you did, never paid attention to it. He is British, living in Australia and he was actually quoting from a report from Thatcham, a British company working for the British insurance companies. So yes it was 100% about the UK and I think that if you watch it on YT you can find that he has attached the link to the Thatcham document.

Also the point he was making about tax payers money was referring to brand new cars, not used cars, but the insurance will affect both.

So many of you dismiss YTubers as not being worthy of anything🙄, which is utter rubbish; they can and often do disclose what the pro EV sites, authorities, and MSM will not tell you because it goes against the narrative.

Some claim I have a closed mind, which is once again utter guff. I just like to check for myself rather than just following the narrative, like the rats that followed the pied piper of Hamlin.

To save you looking for the info, it is here you will notice that the second line of the article clearly states the UK, so it is 100% a UK article and report, not Australian, as you claim. Inability to repair EV batteries could cause insurance to spike | Autocar

Research - Thatcham Research

It is a British research centre, based at Colthrop Way, Thatcham, Berkshire, RG19 4NR. They conduct all kinds of crash tests and testing of all kinds of automotive engineering aspects, and shares its findings with insurance companies, governments, manufacturers, and repairers to assist in the design, safety, risk assessment, and repair techniques

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

17 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

If all the claims being made about them selling well, ask yourself why they were discussing a discount to you on that Megane-e that you are eyeing up? It is not the sort of thing that happens if sales are booming.

The special discount of 3 times the "normal" discount, usually about 5% but sometime a bit more when dealers need to sell a few more to hit the next target level and tap in to another 1 or 2 % themselves has been there are long as I have been buying new ie over 30 years ago when I bought my Skoda Felecia, before VW even fully owned Skoda.

Always been like this, not really different today. Car companies like Ford and GM have mega discounts, particularly to fleet buying companies. Skoda did the great "we pay the VAT" deals about 20 years ago, mega deal for mega cars ie TSI VRSs.

What I was talking to the dealer Renault dealer was this "Blue Light" type discount, 3 times the normal discount because of that one is, or was, a certain occupation. I am being offered this due to being CSMA member ie ex Civil Servant. Only downside is not getting the 0% finance but that is fine as I am due to get my retirement lump sum soon.

I don't know the dealer psychology of offering certain segment of UK society much more discount but it is quite a wide industry thing, more so by European car makers than Korea or Japanese firms maybe ? Just happy to get it, free metallic paint as well as the hyper discount !! Probably applies to ICE as well as EVs but EV was the only option I wanted.

@lol-lol even with that "Blue Light" type of discount, if cars are flying out of the showroom as is being claimed by so many of the EV sites, channels, then discounts are not required at all, as if you do not buy the car, there is a high chance that the next person will. Discounts are only normally offered, as you said, if they need to hit a target for the month, etc, and that is why it is usually good to buy near the month's end. If that is the case, then any discount could well be quite considerable and your purchase could well be a difference maker for their sales quota.

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol even with that "Blue Light" type of discount, if cars are flying out of the showroom as is being claimed by so many of the EV sites, channels, then discounts are not required at all, as if you do not buy the car, there is a high chance that the next person will. Discounts are only normally offered, as you said, if they need to hit a target for the month, etc, and that is why it is usually good to buy near the month's end. If that is the case, then any discount could well be quite considerable and your purchase could well be a difference maker for them.

I think it is more about the calendar year and 28% of sales EV mandate hence the best EV deals are inQ4 of the year.

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Now the UK insurance industry it seems is putting the boot in.

Insurance cost increased, just as everyone's, last year.

This year insurance cost (I renewed in Aug) was a lot cheaper than last year's, about the same as 2 years ago.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Some claim I have a closed mind, which is once again utter guff. I just like to check for myself rather than just following the narrative, like the rats that followed the pied piper of Hamlin.

First-hand information posted by numerous EV owners not good enough for you?

But you'd rather spread obviously anti-EV social media posts cherry-picking 3rd hand information. 🤡

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

To save you looking for the info, it is here you will notice that the second line of the article clearly states the UK, so it is 100% a UK article and report, not Australian, as you claim. Inability to repair EV batteries could cause insurance to spike | Autocar

What did you say about looking past the headline?

The actual quote from industry expert is as follow:

"

Dan Harrowell, principal engineer of advanced technologies at Thatcham Research, said: “There’s a lot of discussion around recycling batteries, but as the insurance industry we’re focused instead on the repair, refurbishment and remanufacture of batteries.

“To maintain parity with ICE vehicles, we need battery refurbishment and repairs to be done by independent repairers, as happens in the replacement engine sector. The risk is that unless industry develops the skills to do this work, as we hit scale and as EVs age, writeoffs will be more considerable.”

"

None of industry "experts" and no where in the article talks about insurance cost.

8 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Insurance cost increased, just as everyone's, last year.

This year insurance cost (I renewed in Aug) was a lot cheaper than last year's, about the same as 2 years ago.

First-hand information posted by numerous EV owners not good enough for you?

But you'd rather spread obviously anti-EV social media posts cherry-picking 3rd hand information. 🤡

What did you say about looking past the headline?

The actual quote from industry expert is as follow:

"

Dan Harrowell, principal engineer of advanced technologies at Thatcham Research, said: “There’s a lot of discussion around recycling batteries, but as the insurance industry we’re focused instead on the repair, refurbishment and remanufacture of batteries.

“To maintain parity with ICE vehicles, we need battery refurbishment and repairs to be done by independent repairers, as happens in the replacement engine sector. The risk is that unless industry develops the skills to do this work, as we hit scale and as EVs age, writeoffs will be more considerable.”

"

None of industry "experts" and no where in the article talks about insurance cost.

Human mistake like getting magnetic fields and microwaves mixed up.

Make haste proclamation, regret at leisure.

The Mini insurance went down loads compared to the hybrid Clio. Probably as much to do with readjustment after the post covid spike but going from 145 to 185 hp and a more expensive car but insurance from petrol hybrid to EV almost halved. Nice. Offsets the higher PCP payments with the cheaper insurance, fuel costs and cheaper servicing !

50 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I think it is more about the calendar year and 28% of sales EV mandate hence the best EV deals are inQ4 of the year.

Nope, that rule applies to just about every sales organization going where they will have an annual target which is broken into monthly, seasonally adjusted targets, which are based on previous historic data, and in the car industry, that will be broken down into monthly target/budgets which are required to bring in cash flow to meet wages and expenses for the month. Then there are the two new registration months, which will be the biggest targets and the best opportunity to hit the budget. Then will be the mad scramble at the end of the year if they need more sales to hit that 28% quota figure.

This I know as I have been directly involved in technical sales for over 40 years, and heads will roll if those targets/budgets are not forthcoming.

58 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Insurance cost increased, just as everyone's, last year.

This year insurance cost (I renewed in Aug) was a lot cheaper than last year's, about the same as 2 years ago.

First-hand information posted by numerous EV owners not good enough for you?

But you'd rather spread obviously anti-EV social media posts cherry-picking 3rd hand information. 🤡

What did you say about looking past the headline?

The actual quote from industry expert is as follow:

"

Dan Harrowell, principal engineer of advanced technologies at Thatcham Research, said: “There’s a lot of discussion around recycling batteries, but as the insurance industry we’re focused instead on the repair, refurbishment and remanufacture of batteries.

“To maintain parity with ICE vehicles, we need battery refurbishment and repairs to be done by independent repairers, as happens in the replacement engine sector. The risk is that unless industry develops the skills to do this work, as we hit scale and as EVs age, writeoffs will be more considerable.”

"

None of industry "experts" and no where in the article talks about insurance cost.

So now you are claiming that the insurance sector does not rely on the figures produced by Thatcham Research, I suggest that you visit the Thatcham website to confirm that, also confirm with your insurer if that is the case or not. Their data applies equally to both ICE and EV cars, so no I'm NOT spreading anti-EV social media posts cherry-picking 3rd hand information, but actual factual information. Like it or not all cars can be involved in accidents and need repairs to be carried out to wherever possible restore them to roadworthy condition or, be written off if the cost of repair will almost be the same value as the car itself before the accident happened.

This is NOT an anti EV post as you always make them out to be, open your mind, look at the information given, something that you once accussed me off was not providing the supportive documention, and now it seems when I do, you are still willing to disagree with it, and always in a personal manner rather than in a constructive fashion by providing counter arguments from a unbiased soruce, which Thatcham Research is, it assesses and carries out crash tests and repairs on all types of cars, ICE, Hybrids, REX, PHEVs and BEVs and its information is the industry standard, at least for the UK insurance and also the UK car repairers who have to base their esitimates on something rather than plucking figures out of thin air 😮

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

57 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Nope, that rule applies to just about every sales organization going where they will have an annual target which is broken into monthly, seasonally adjusted targets, which are based on previous historic data, and in the car industry, that will be broken down into monthly target/budgets which are required to bring in cash flow to meet wages and expenses for the month. Then there are the two new registration months, which will be the biggest targets and the best opportunity to hit the budget. Then will be the mad scramble at the end of the year if they need more sales to hit that 28% quota figure.

This I know as I have been directly involved in technical sales for over 40 years, and heads will roll if those targets/budgets are not forthcoming.

I like my local Renault dealership called Startin and when i deal with them I drive the best deal I can but also want to see they have a margin and continue to survive.

Pleased with the sales side as I have a good relationship with one of the sales guys but I am buying a new car off them each year as I run two and my lad had a Clio recently. Would be odd if they go the same way as the Mini dealer who just gets £500 Agency handling fee for selling a new car and no percentage margin. They did a good job and aiming to get the second hand trade in and make a better margin there i reckon.

Oddly Startin , biggish group here in West Midlands, is losing the Skoda dealership which they have had for many a year though I did not rate the sales staff myself, and they are getting the Nissan dealership. Whilst Nissan appear to be in a huge reorganising I hope, as a UK citizen, that they are successful so Sunderland can flourish. Nissan and Renault are cousin companies ofcourse along with Mitsuishi and Samsung cars.

Last two European cars of the year ie 2024 and 2025 is helping keep this Europan brand going against the Chinese onslaught, albeit the Dacia Spring is Chinese made as is the Mini.

For us consumers the price of EVs just gets lower and lower due to the batteries becoming about 20% cheaper year on year. Good for the buying, or PCP of, though slightly annoying that when you buy something today it is much cheaper tomorrow. Reverse to ICE cars when I could by a Octavia VRS for about £17k a decade and a half ago and now they are closer to 3 times the price !

41 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

So now you are claiming that the insurance sector does not rely on the figures produced by Thatcham Research,

This was never claimed.

I only pointed out that the title does not match the content. The content did not talk about increased cost to insure EV's.

Because the title fitted what you wanted to believe, you clearly didn't read more into the content to see what Thatcham and others are actually saying.

In simple terms, they are saying we need better battery repair infrastructure.

42 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

This is NOT an anti EV post as you always make them out to be, open your mind, look at the information given, something that you once accussed me off was not providing the supportive documention, and now it seems when I do, you are still willing to disagree with it, and always in a personal manner rather than in a constructive fashion by providing counter arguments from a unbiased soruce, which Thatcham Research is, it assesses and carries out crash tests and repairs on all types of cars, ICE, Hybrids, REX, PHEVs and BEVs and its information is the industry standard, at least for the UK insurance and also the UK car repairers who have to base their esitimates on something rather than plucking figures out of thin air 😮

I did not disagree with anything.

If you are still talking about the Autocar article, again, I only pointed out that the title does not match the content.

Talk about digging your own hole and getting into it.

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

though slightly annoying that when you buy something today it is much cheaper tomorrow.

Personally, I think this is clear sign of technical progress. Things only appreciate when new things isn't better than old.

I'm very used to things like this. Pretty much all my hobby involves buying varying degree of depreciating things: computer, photography, photo drones, smart home, energy products. Latest addition is upgrade to multi-gig WIFI 7 throughout the house with full Unifi "stack". The WIFI 6 router was sold for less than 1/3 of my purchase price.

4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

This was never claimed.

I only pointed out that the title does not match the content. The content did not talk about increased cost to insure EV's.

Because the title fitted what you wanted to believe, you clearly didn't read more into the content to see what Thatcham and others are actually saying.

In simple terms, they are saying we need better battery repair infrastructure.

I did not disagree with anything.

If you are still talking about the Autocar article, again, I only pointed out that the title does not match the content.

Talk about digging your own hole and getting into it.

Yes, of course they are saying that we need battery repair infrastructure, because it is the battery side of things that is causing so many BEV's to be written off and thus keep the relative cost of insurance on BEV's that much higher than it is the equivelant ICE vehicle., which is precisly what the video and the article is all about, it is not about ICE cars is it. Body work on both types of cars is just body work, metal or plastic panels, that is fairly easy to repair to both types of cars, includeing Hybrids, REX, and PHEVs, engines can also be repaired with relative ease but the batteries currently not possible. Yes there maybe one a few places around that can do that, but they cannot cover the entire country and do it in a timely manner to prevent nasty incidents and also get the customers car back on the road in a short period of time, unlike an ICE car, simple facts.

I never take the title as being that entire truth, shame on you if you expect the title of anything to be 1000% reflective of the actual meat and gravey of the content, where have you been all of your life, surely you don't walk around with your head in bucket or something similar so that you cannot see this happening everywhere you look. If they don't make the statement grab your attention, then they are not going to anywhere are they? This does not matter if it is advertising for a new car, beer, food item tool whatever, news item etc, they have to peak your interest first. Jeez, give me strength...😒

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

30 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I like my local Renault dealership called Startin and when i deal with them I drive the best deal I can but also want to see they have a margin and continue to survive.

Pleased with the sales side as I have a good relationship with one of the sales guys but I am buying a new car off them each year as I run two and my lad had a Clio recently. Would be odd if they go the same way as the Mini dealer who just gets £500 Agency handling fee for selling a new car and no percentage margin. They did a good job and aiming to get the second hand trade in and make a better margin there i reckon.

Oddly Startin , biggish group here in West Midlands, is losing the Skoda dealership which they have had for many a year though I did not rate the sales staff myself, and they are getting the Nissan dealership. Whilst Nissan appear to be in a huge reorganising I hope, as a UK citizen, that they are successful so Sunderland can flourish. Nissan and Renault are cousin companies ofcourse along with Mitsuishi and Samsung cars.

Last two European cars of the year ie 2024 and 2025 is helping keep this Europan brand going against the Chinese onslaught, albeit the Dacia Spring is Chinese made as is the Mini.

For us consumers the price of EVs just gets lower and lower due to the batteries becoming about 20% cheaper year on year. Good for the buying, or PCP of, though slightly annoying that when you buy something today it is much cheaper tomorrow. Reverse to ICE cars when I could by a Octavia VRS for about £17k a decade and a half ago and now they are closer to 3 times the price !

That all goes without saying of course, hence what I was saying about the need to hit the monthly sales targets inorder to remain in business, for example how often do you drive along a road, such as new stretch of the A14 around Huntingdon and notice all the direlect filling stations, diners etc which have had their passing trade taken away by the new road. There is simply no way of getting to those stations and diners anymore as the road has been closed off.

A good business deal is one where both parties get a something out of it and customers will come back again for more of the same next time they want a new car, that will not happen if the customer feels ripped off, or the business does not retain enough margin to survive, they simply will not be there when the customer wants a new car. That is business 101.

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That all goes without saying of course, hence what I was saying about the need to hit the monthly sales targets inorder to remain in business, for example how often do you drive along a road, such as new stretch of the A14 around Huntingdon and notice all the direlect filling stations, diners etc which have had their passing trade taken away by the new road. There is simply no way of getting to those stations and diners anymore as the road has been closed off.

A good business deal is one where both parties get a something out of it and customers will come back again for more of the same next time they want a new car, that will not happen if the customer feels ripped off, or the business does not retain enough margin to survive, they simply will not be there when the customer wants a new car. That is business 101.

With car sales it seems to be quarterly sales and the manufacturers tweak their finance deals to tru and make a profit. Renault have redone theirs for Q3 and their interest rates went up even though central bank rates dropped in Europe and UK.

Manufacturers and dealers can make more money on the finance side than the car selling and then count on making significant money on servicing and various repairing contracts whilst the car is being used.

Car manufacturing had been a very tough place and margins low or negative but it had been so important for every job manufacturing there us another 3 or 4 in the tier 1, 2 suppliers and of course companies like mine doing the national and international logistics.

We have lots of premium car makers and Nissan and Toyota cars plus Stellantis van manufacture so not small but smaller than Germany, Spain and France. Big part of jobs and export earners and these cyber attack is not helping in either regard !

That is the same as any business that I've ever been involved with, they all have an annual sales target, hence they always quote Q1, Q2 etc when having sales meetings and the annual sales conference. Then they also have the monthly sales targets and at the end of each month, if there is a shortfall then they have all done a mini promotion, an extra bit of discount, or a prize draw but to enter the customer has to do a certain purchase level. Then if at the end of a quarter if it looks like they will miss it, they normally come out with an enhanced offer and leave the real biggie for the year-end push, where not only does the customer manage to grab a real bargain, but the top sales person often got to have an all expenses paid 3 week cruise on some holiday cruise ship.

This always annoyed the hell out of me as when they did that, it meant the for the following year you were between a rock and hard place as the customers were already stocked upto the gunalls with product and they were desperately trying to shift it off their shelves before their payment became due.

Edited 22 September, 202522 Sep by Graham Butcher

I just saw this rather heart-warming video of a Tesla battery being repaired, and this is what we need to have more of being done in the world.

One thing though worthy of note is that for of those that claim a BEV is far less complicated than an ICE engine really need to cease making that claim, as here you can clearly see the thousands of cells that make up a battery pack. A pack is made from loads of battery modules, each module has hundreds of cells and all the complicated cooling / heating to keep the cells at the optimum temperature. Add to that all the complicated BMS required for each module and all the connections in each module etc, any of these is a potential problem and can seriously ruin your day just the same as a mechanical problem with a combustion engine/transmission.

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

One thing though worthy of note is that for of those that claim a BEV is far less complicated than an ICE engine really need to cease making that claim

Do any of those require servicing?

What is the failure rate of Li-on cells?

What is the failure rate of power electronics, BMS and wire connections vs purely mechanical ICE?

Are there also large amount of sensors, ECU and wiring connections on a modern ICE?

From my experience with modern ICE, I don't think EV are complicated at all. There's far less moving parts that wear out, less sensors that could get sooted up, that's a given. There may be more individual parts when you count the cells, but what is actual failure rate for cells? As a complete pack, is the failure rate higher or lower than modern ICE?

Then, if a cell fails, you can replace the cell as shown in the short video and also previously shown very easily done for Leaf battery.

End of the day, more STUFF does not automatically equal to higher chance of "ruin your day". This stuff is basic secondary school statistics.

Petrol retailers doubling their margin on diesel and petrol sales it seems.

Oil has been around $65 a barrel, which is 159 litres from memory, for many months.

Maybe petrol retailers upping their margin as they sell less as more and more go over to EVs ?

Maybe upping it so UK Chancellor less likely to remove the 5p Covid reduction or raise Excise duty on fuel by inflation ?

More VAT collected on the higher price for the retail sale of course which will help the government coffers.

Interesting market dynamics. For EVs drivers the overnight charging cost stayed fixed on Octopus GO and IOG (I presume) ie 8.5p per kwh making energy costs still around 2p per mile so one can see the increasing attraction of going EV as well as the several other incentives......

Petrol stations have been accused of overcharging drivers after the competition watchdog reported a sharp rise in fuel profit margins. The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) stated that retailers are now taking a significantly larger share of fuel spending than in the past, with profits on every £1 spent more than doubling at some supermarkets and rising substantially at other forecourts. Luke Bosdet of the AA said drivers are “still being ripped off at the pumps” while struggling with tight household budgets. He pointed to a “postcode lottery” in fuel prices, where neighbouring towns often see large differences, with many areas paying far more than others. According to the CMA, supermarket fuel margins averaged between 8% and 9.1% in the three months to June. That is up from 4% in 2017 and slightly higher than the 7.9% to 8.3% seen in the first three months of this year. Non-supermarket petrol stations made profits of 9.9% to 10.6% on fuel sales in the three months to June, compared with 6.4% in 2017. This means drivers are now paying about 10p from every £1 spent on fuel directly to retailers, up from just 4p eight years ago.

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