32 minutes ago, classic said:

Unfortunately after decades of systems involving cash and a reliance on people to declare honestly their earnings, we are in a place where public services can’t cope.

Annoyingly if you make more than £1000 from a side hustle you should pay tax on that. If they decide to tax “classic” cars and tax large cars by weight then so be it. Vote for the party that will change things back at the next general election, but the money will have to come from somewhere or the public services reduced.

Totally agree with what you said, but everything rolls downhill to those at the bottom of the food chain to make up the shortfall, i.e., those who already have the least resources.

We need far fewer think tanks that lobby on behalf of funders, who are extremely wealthy and believe they deserve to keep more of their money than others can. We need politicians who are there for everyone, not just the elite.

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

The distance between pedals varies very little between sizes of cars. A small automatic would also offer you the same advantage by not having the clutch pedal and you only use 1 foot

True, but I have had company cars before, and the companies have reserved automatics for management only, plebs get manuals. Smaller cars have the front wheel well encroaching into the footwell so the pedals get squeezed together with far less space between the clutch and the transmission tunnel, meaning wide feet have problems in that area.

When I had those cars, my sons either had not been born, or were just toddlers or small children; that's no longer true, they are my size, 6ft 4", and also have larger feet than most, hence the need for larger cars, as @lol-lol pointed out with the roof line also presenting less space in the rear in lots of cars.

So, for some, it is only large cars, of any powerplant type, that will fit the bill for those who are not of average dimensions, which is what most cars are designed for.

3 hours ago, classic said:

Unfortunately after decades of systems involving cash and a reliance on people to declare honestly their earnings, we are in a place where public services can’t cope.

Annoyingly if you make more than £1000 from a side hustle you should pay tax on that. If they decide to tax “classic” cars and tax large cars by weight then so be it. Vote for the party that will change things back at the next general election, but the money will have to come from somewhere or the public services reduced.

Only £500 before paying tax on interest from savings if one is a higher rate tax payer.

Interest rates on savings have been falling though one of my accounts with Lloyds still get 6.25%.

One of the reasons I have ordered/buying the Renault 5 is that having savings,, after getting most of my tax free lump sum, is getting savings interests will just attract taxation so may as well spend and enjoy.

Just trying to figure out if one get taxed on interest in a cash drawdown account. Sound have put it in ISA I suppose, I gather there is more than a third of a trillion pounds in ISAs, mostly cash ISAs !

But the tax doesn't reduce your savings it just means the balance doesn't grow as much.

The cars depreciation will way exceed the money you pay in tax.

9 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

But the tax doesn't reduce your savings it just means the balance doesn't grow as much.

The cars depreciation will way exceed the money you pay in tax.

Certainly seen that with my Scenic EV and the Zoe and in both cases if you are happy with the monthly payment and got it on pcp then one has the choice, give back to manufacturer or keep.

Renault 5 might be my first EV that i buy after the pcp, £11k is the balloon payment and of course the R5 can do Vehicle to Load and my version is LFP monitor could earn ne money as a large home battery.

Oddly Renault give the V2L adapter with the Lithion ion 52 jwh battery but not with the LFP 40 kwh version where the LFP should be capable of several times more charge and discharge cycles !

15 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Certainly seen that with my Scenic EV and the Zoe and in both cases if you are happy with the monthly payment and got it on pcp then one has the choice, give back to manufacturer or keep.

Renault 5 might be my first EV that i buy after the pcp, £11k is the balloon payment and of course the R5 can do Vehicle to Load and my version is LFP monitor could earn ne money as a large home battery.

Oddly Renault give the V2L adapter with the Lithion ion 52 jwh battery but not with the LFP 40 kwh version where the LFP should be capable of several times more charge and discharge cycles !

How does paying monthly reduce your savings to save the tax annually, is a pcp tax deductible

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper

3 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

How does paying monthly reduce your savings to save the tax annually, is a pcp tax deductible

Some monthly payments on the Renault PCP deals ie sub £100 a month, are less than the savings one is making on fuel over ICE cars.

The pill to swallow is the big dollap off customer deposit which have been great ie on the Megane e it was zero to get on the zero percent but on the 5 it is a massive 40% deposit when it was only 30 % though but when the car is only £21k not so painful compared to some car purchases. Renault can get away with this due to demand for the 5 and, of course, with most European Car makers they are financially right up sh1te creek with the current Chinese invasion which is being partially being held back with EU Antidumping duty but not in the UK yet, Rachel Reeves should think about some ADD, not as high as EU but some. MG etc are effectively getting Chinese state aid.

My problem is having £9k a year car allowance but that will shortly end.

If I was to pay £1k tax pa on money sitting in savings accounts may as well spend it and dip under £1k / £500 interest earned, help government out with its tax receipts and have a funky little R5, must order my baguette holder.

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by lol-lol

30 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

My problem is having £9k a year car allowance but that will shortly end.

If I was to pay £1k tax pa on money sitting in savings accounts may as well spend it and dip under £1k / £500 interest earned, help government out with its tax receipts and have a funky little R5, must order my baguette holder.

If your paying £1k tax on your interest from your savings then that almost makes you into one of the fat cats doing tax evasion, well maybe not a real fat cat, but certainly a tubby cat (pun not intended) and maybe part of the reason why Rachel from accounts is scrabbling around looking for ways to plug the deficit that doesn't upset the elite.

41 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

If I was to pay £1k tax pa on money sitting in savings accounts may as well spend it and dip under £1k / £500 interest earned, help government out with its tax receipts and have a funky little R5, must order my baguette holder.

For a higher rate taxpayer to pay £1,000 tax on interest on savings would require interest paid of £3,000 which is close to £70,000 in the bank.

I still can't see how leaving the money in the bank and paying for something they could buy outright with a deposit then £100 a month saves a lot of money

If the deposit was £3,000 and they took it from savings in that scenario they would save £52.80 in tax

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper

8 hours ago, classic said:

Unfortunately after decades of systems involving cash and a reliance on people to declare honestly their earnings, we are in a place where public services can’t cope.

Annoyingly if you make more than £1000 from a side hustle you should pay tax on that. If they decide to tax “classic” cars and tax large cars by weight then so be it. Vote for the party that will change things back at the next general election, but the money will have to come from somewhere or the public services reduced.

17 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

If your paying £1k tax on your interest from your savings then that almost makes you into one of the fat cats doing tax evasion, well maybe not a real fat cat, but certainly a tubby cat (pun not intended) and maybe part of the reason why Rachel from accounts is scrabbling around looking for ways to plug the deficit that doesn't upset the elite.

AVOIDANCE not EVASION.

The tax rules are what the last Con government and now the Labour government now try and apply to keep itself funded. The £70B a year in Salary sacrifice AVOIDANCE fund the UK Gilt market which current and previous uk governments rely on to fund their massive debt which trebled from £1T in 2010 to £3T in 2024.

Worked as a HMCE / HMRC Officer, raised millions in extra taxes, pwc made me a better offer, happens all the time with individuals who are performing well, shame civil service is not flexible to keep us, git £150 bones for one if the multi million pound under dec cases, wow.

I will try not to pay any interest on savings so as well the EV i will buy some more batteries and solar panels. Provably won't even buy an ISA as I don't believe that tax avoidance measures is good form.

One of daughters is being offered salary sacrifice scheme at work, she is not massively paid but that tax avoidance measure is a good one to help biukd a good sized pension fund and is why, j believe, RR had to raise the Employers NI % as more abd more firms are adopting SS. Not used SS for EVs so paid massive ta. On my car allowance. Continue to pay lots of Income tax and NI butvtgat will stop shortly when I retire in a few days. What will the government do without me I wonder.

15 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

For a higher rate taxpayer to pay £1,000 tax on interest on savings would require interest paid of £3,000 which is close to £70,000 in the bank.

I still can't see how leaving the money in the bank and paying for something they could buy outright with a deposit then £100 a month saves a lot of money

If the deposit was £3,000 and they took it from savings in that scenario they would save £52.80 in tax

Good calculating. Lump sum got last week was closer to £80k, sum 3 times that into Drawdown fund but spending it fast to avoid £500 / £1k interest in the remainder of this tax year as already had some interest receipts.

Current UK tax laws, I feel, are squeezing the large middle class but then encouraging people to spend, rather than stuff away in ISA etc is probably a good thing too else you end up like Japan did for a couple of decades ie stagflation.

Clear the mortgage in the next few weeks, become debt free, enjoy retirement though with Trump in the White House my area of work has never been in such demand !

I don't understand why the Government allowed salary sacrifice for vehicles apart from an effort to help the Car industry.

They don't give tax relief on mortgage payments anymore so i don't see why it should be for other purchases

Pension addition as a salary sacrifice make sense because it gets taxed when paid out with the added benefit of increasing money in the banking system to replenish what was lost in the increasingly long ago crash and reduces payments of means tested benefits in the future.

I think the problem is Governments don't really think long term.

All the loopholes should be closed and the system would be easier to manage and avoid the avoidance.

10 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Good calculating. Lump sum got last week was closer to £80k, sum 3 times that into Drawdown fund but spending it fast to avoid £500 / £1k interest in the remainder of this tax year as already had some interest receipts.

Current UK tax laws, I feel, are squeezing the large middle class but then encouraging people to spend, rather than stuff away in ISA etc is probably a good thing too else you end up like Japan did for a couple of decades ie stagflation.

Clear the mortgage in the next few weeks, become debt free, enjoy retirement though with Trump in the White House my area of work has never been in such demand !

You can get interest tax free on £20,000 in an ISA

17 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Current UK tax laws, I feel, are squeezing the large middle class but then encouraging people to spend, rather than stuff away in ISA

Of course they are because those on mega money, who control the Governments want to keep you voting for low taxation and want to stop you joining them,

They can use these avoidance techniques to the max.

Top rate of tax used to come in at £20,000 in the 1970s that would be £235,000 a year now.

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

If your paying £1k tax on your interest from your savings then that almost makes you into one of the fat cats doing tax evasion, well maybe not a real fat cat, but certainly a tubby cat (pun not intended) and maybe part of the reason why Rachel from accounts is scrabbling around looking for ways to plug the deficit that doesn't upset the elite.

Think you may have hit a nerve there @Graham Butcher judging by the replies...

12 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think you'll find that a data signal can be superimposed onto the power cables, isn't that how the information is transmitted from your smart meter back to your power supplier?

Smart meter don't use power line, it is too noisy over long distances and the data doesn't go past some types of switches.

Smart meter uses mobile data network or dedicated network, depend on your area: https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2#wide_area_network

12 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

so plugging your car into a charger is also connecting your car to the super data highway for data collection, as your car details, reg number, from which they can identify you, and the distance you have travelled.

Again, look at my post regarding exactly what data is exchanged when plugging into charger/charge points. Mileage, vehicle registration are never part of the international standard.

On 24/10/2025 at 21:56, wyx087 said:

I finally worked out, it's you! Corsa-e, then mini, now MG 5. Stop changing names 😅

Let's have a think, how does that happen exactly?

All current smart AC charge points don't even have the capability to read anything from the car. Not even battery SoC. There's 2 pins for confirming amp rating, one for charge point and one for cable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Signaling

So how can they report mileage?

Then go have a read ISO 15118, this is the international standard communication protocol between car and DC charger or V2G/V2H. Mileage reporting is still not one of the data being exchanged.

Me thinks social media sound-bytes are getting repeated without a thought/fact check.

I'm frankly baffled by the amount of tin foil hat craziness you've managed to cram into a single post.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.

Hmm....

..

30 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Smart meter don't use power line, it is too noisy over long distances and the data doesn't go past some types of switches.

Smart meter uses mobile data network or dedicated network, depend on your area: https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2#wide_area_network

Again, look at my post regarding exactly what data is exchanged when plugging into charger/charge points. Mileage, vehicle registration are never part of the international standard.

I'm frankly baffled by the amount of tin foil hat craziness you've managed to cram into a single post.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.

When ignorance is bliss, then you must on cloud 9, I never said it was, I asked a question. But here is something that you might like to consider, I also never said that the data signals only travel via power lines, did I.

Fact is that data can and does get distributed over power lines, I even make use of that technology in my house, instead of running cat 5 cables all over the house (mainly because SWMBO hates seeing cables) I have had my broadband intake positioned in a bedroom, and then taken the signal from the router up into the loft and down into what was my home office, into a Netgear switch, and then taken cables out of that to feed a A1 plotter, a printer, a scanner, 2 NAS units, 2 PCs and then onto another switch in a sons bedroom which splits it again to feed a smart TV, 3 game consoles, a PC and a wireless access point. Then I use PLC (Power Line Communication) to run the broadband down to another switch in the TV cabinet to feed a smart TV, Internet radio, smart Blu-ray player and a Free view recorder unit as well as another wireless access point. The same PLC also sends broadband round another son's bedroom because he hates wires, and that feeds a game consol, printer, and a PC along with a smart TV. PLC is also used to feed another wireless access point adjacent to the front door to provide an excellent, strong signal to my doorbell and door camera, so yes it can coexist alongside AC power, but there are, as you rightly said, certain things that it cannot get through.

That said, I never said that travels all the way by power lines either, because it makes its way to a series of wireless stations, i.e, mobile phone stations etc for onward transmissions back to the suppliers datacentres where it is processed to provide billing for the customers.

Here is something else you may like to consider, BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) which is useful in some areas and is ap parentally being used to provide smart meters to around 200,000 houses by EON, so you are not as correct as you thought and so that makes far less of tin foil hat wearer than you would attempt to paint me.

"On 19 January 2018, E.ON, the German multinational electric utility company, serving about 48 million customers across several European countries, decided to use BPL in the low-voltage segment of their grid for communication with their smart metering devices. The utility chose Corinex as the provider for the initial two years of the deployment. The initial deployment was several ten thousand repeaters and headends, providing secure communication for meters at about 200,000 households. The utility selected Corinex GridValue energy management system, using the IBM Tivoli platform, to manage the network.^[22]"

How Broadband Over Powerlines Works | HowStuffWorks

Broadband over power lines - Wikipedia

there are many other references as well

I know that you also like to say TLDNR, but sometimes you may and can learn something by reading.

2 hours ago, skomaz said:

Think you may have hit a nerve there @Graham Butcher judging by the replies...

I think you're right. Its interesting how people view things when they appear to have their feet firmly planted in of the affected segments of society. I love to get people's opinions on what could or could not be taking place in the budget, but there is one thing that we can all agree on, it will be those that can least afford to shoulder more responsibility for the nation's poor financial state that will proportionally feel the pain more than others.

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think you're right. Its interesting how people view things when they appear to have their feet firmly planted in of the affected segments of society. I love to get people's opinions on what could or could not be taking place in the budget, but there is one thing that we can all agree on, it will be those that can least afford to shoulder more responsibility for the nation's poor financial state that will proportionally feel the pain more than others.

More Marxist rhetoric ?

Yes there should be a good financial safety net, Social Security is a good name for such and the UK state pension should be adequate for standard of live which includes being fed Ok and being able to kept warm.

Government tax policy is, and has been for decades, crafted by politicians and my ex colleagues to raise the revenue needed to provide a decent society. Not helped by acts of vandalism as the last government did in its dying days to lower NI from 12% to 8%. This aided most those being paid £40k and above and did nothing for pensioners.

Using taxes, as the Cons did with large EV grants, which was £5k in 2017 in the middle of their reign of terrible policies, no wonder the country is in so much debt. £5k in 2017 is more like £7k in todays money due to the massive inflation that happened during their watch. The £1500 I am getting on the Renault 5 is tiny compared to that grant.

I perhaps will be allowed my 2025 Budget thread shortly as we have less than a month until RR's budget. Despite the dire financial state left by the last government I am hoping for some positive changes. The nominal level taxes is started to be paid to £13k I hope to see. The £50k start on higher rate is going to stay but that is not going to worry be as I am planning to be retired in a few days.

Even on my cheapy version R5 the VAT is going to outweigh the EV grant I get so a net figure collected on the "sale/ pcp acquisition". Been talking to one of the daughters about her firm doing salary sacrifice for pensions and general a great thing as it has helped me put an additional large sum in my pension pot but also help the UK government sell its Gilts. Of course the negative side is less money visible in ones pay packet which does not help when buying a house !

@lol-lol I'm not going to disagree with any of that, RR has inherited the most appalling situation left by the last lot. It has all the hallmarks of being a well laid trap so they can spin it back against this government at the next GE to keep them out of power for many years to come. Politics is a dirty game played by self centred people many of which don't care about the country and all of its people.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The nominal level taxes is started to be paid to £13k I hope to see.

I don't think that is going to happen.

If you are a 40% tax payer this year. Be prepared in a few weeks after you retire to get a bill for up to £92.10 a week on your state pension for the weeks to the end of the tax year. Because the state pension is not taxed at source

Edited 27 October, 202527 Oct by Stonekeeper

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That said, I never said that travels all the way by power lines either, because it makes its way to a series of wireless stations, i.e, mobile phone stations etc for onward transmissions back to the suppliers datacentres where it is processed to provide billing for the customers.

No, you said:

22 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think you'll find that a data signal can be superimposed onto the power cables, isn't that how the information is transmitted from your smart meter back to your power supplier?

Which is saying: "data signals can travel on power cable" - false, does not work at grid scale. BPL articles all mentioned this.

and also questioning: "isn't that how smart meters send data back?" - false, all UK smart meter are wireless.

10 seconds fact check on smart meters will find your answer.

But you decided to post completely fictional way of things working. Hiding behind a "question" when called out, yet the original post was to not to question but to spread false information on how things work. This the definition of spreading misinformation.

23 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

so plugging your car into a charger is also connecting your car to the super data highway for data collection, as your car details, reg number, from which they can identify you, and the distance you have travelled.

Then there's problem of you continuing to spread FUD despite I posted source of information on exactly what information has been exchanged with charge points.

On 24/10/2025 at 21:56, wyx087 said:

All current smart AC charge points don't even have the capability to read anything from the car. Not even battery SoC. There's 2 pins for confirming amp rating, one for charge point and one for cable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Signaling

So how can they report mileage?

Then go have a read ISO 15118, this is the international standard communication protocol between car and DC charger or V2G/V2H. Mileage reporting is still not one of the data being exchanged.

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

When ignorance is bliss, then you must on cloud 9, I never said it was, I asked a question.

The fact is, not bothering to fact check what you write is very irresponsible.

You are a bag full of social media conspiracy theory sound bytes.

BRITCARD.

Maybe sometime and maybe just first for people getting first jobs or changing jobs.

The UK can not organise a p!$$ up in a brewery.

Can not get IT right or protect it. Can not actually procure at the right price.

As for the DfT, DVLA, DVSA, HMRC, not fit for purpose.

Decades of no ID cards in the UK or even the ne3ed to have a Plastic Driving Licence yet or actually produce one when asked by Officers of the Law in the UK.

Politicians will be among those that will not be wanting to have every movement of their vehicles tracked.

High time actually that VED / Insurance & MOT, Registered keeper was on a Card or Bar code on a vehicle for when being filled up at Filling Stations, or when entering car parks, official properties etc etc. All vehicles, Royals, Diplomats, Civil Servants, Politicians, & Joe or Jane bloggs.

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

I don't think that is going to happen.

If you are a 40% tax payer this year. Be prepared in a few weeks after you retire to get a bill for up to £92.10 a week on your state pension for the weeks to the end of the tax year. Because the state pension is not taxed at source

Not getting my State pension until mid 2028 when I turn 67 but the fiscal drag introduced by the Con party is due to be still in place.

As we know HMRC work with income providers, ie the pension funds and I see my recently setup Drawdown fund has the generic 1257L allowance showing on the webpage. Suppose when I do start to get state pension there will be a need to allocate my tax code against one of these income streams and I think the drawdown fund might be the best place for the code to sit. Take out the tax free allowance on April 6th each year, have all my private and state pensions apply a 20% tax rate and then if I do take more money out of the drawdown fund get HMRC to apply a 20% rate if I am only drawing out say less than £20k in that year or ask them to set at 40%. Probably wise to take the exact amount to take it to the £50,270 in that year applying the 20% and then if more wanted do that as a second withdrawal and ask them to apply the 40% tax rate but I will look to avoid that of course with such a painful tax hit. Borrow money to tied through the year and withdraw what would be up to the £50.27K on April 6th and go from there.

In other news, EV pertinent, Renault dealership called and they can get me a Pop Green R5 Evolution saving me £800 on the car bringing it down to £20.5k with the EV grant.

Will need to sort out cup holder, possibly an arm rest and the V2L adapter as one does not get those with the poverty spec Evolution R5. Not bothered about bonnet change indicator display, built in Google maps and beep beep rear parking sensor rather than camera. Performance is not much less at all than the 150 hp version, range is a bit shocking at motorway speeds, In France at their speeds they can empty the battery in about 150 kms ie about 93 miles, oops, but then that is doing about an indicated 85 mph which is dangerous for one's licence in the UK as I found out a few years ago. Thought the battery was LPF but now gather it is also Lithium ion, ah well. Actual battery is 43 kwh, will probably charge to 85% or 90% normally then and olny 100% before longer journeys but then that is not what this car is for but it should still do the 135 miles round trip from Worcester to Chepstow no bother.

18 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

BRITCARD.

Maybe sometime and maybe just first for people getting first jobs or changing jobs.

The UK can not organise a p!$$ up in a brewery.

Can not get IT right or protect it. Can not actually procure at the right price.

As for the DfT, DVLA, DVSA, HMRC, not fit for purpose.

I can understand where you're coming from with the above, the car in this video was converted from petrol to electric 4 years ago, 2021, and yet when I checked to see if the DVLA reflected that fact, back in 2023 after the Luton carpark fire when the diesel Range Rover was said to have started it, the DVLA still showed this as being a petrol powered car, 2 years after the conversion, here is the link to that original post I made at the time which includes the video and the DVLA records showing the Citroen as being petrol Car Park Fires, Transporters / Ships, any fires, any EV,s involved or not thread, were they the cause just there and so made fighting the fire harder. - Page 3 - Electric Vehicles - BRISKODA

It's interesting how, at the time, everybody dismissed the idea that the Range Rover could have been converted to electric, but the records held at the DVLA showed it as diesel. Now, if the Citroen DS had been the cause of that fire, then the fire brigade would also have used the registration plate details to check with the DVLA, and their information would have shown it was petrol, which is clearly not true.

Today DVLA have now got the correct details showing the car is electric??? Copy of DVLA current details for the car shown here.

Strange how time can help to prove that theory could actually be correct after all, but as always, the armchair experts that are only too willing to accept the official reports must always be the correct ones, not the slightest doubt in their mind. I have always said that time will eventually show the truth. I also note the latest DVLA record shows that a new V5C was issued on 6th June 2025, so was that because the car has a new owner, they have just updated the records, or had the other owner only informed them of the modification?