13 hours ago, Monkhai said:

I would say weight and bonnet height/angle are major problems across the board.

Very true, that's why SUV are being made to pay extra, dis-incentivised. But SUV isn't really a category, so weight based make sense.

13 hours ago, Monkhai said:

Or you could just get a car with 800v batteries and this isn’t a problem

Battery are the same regardless 800v or whatever voltage the final connection. All li-on cells nominal voltage is at 3.8v. 800v battery pack is just a different cell configuration. Low state of charge for 800v cars will also see power limited.

The advantage for 800v system is not shown when it is battery limited.

Delivered Power = V * I

Wasted heat: Power = I^2 * R

The advantage for running the system at higher voltage is ability to deliver more power at same maximum current. It's future-proofing for charge point infrastructure when batteries are able to sustain more than 5C, like some of the new Chinese cars. And for driving more powerful motors, such as that 3000 bhp 1200v BYD supercar.

13 hours ago, Monkhai said:

I’m not sure the extra hour applies does it. I thought they had a get out.

Willing to be wrong, but better to check.

This need double checking the wording with suppliers. Some supplier stay on GMT throughout the year.

I'm 100% sure Octopus and other suppliers using Kraken backend are using local time. So if the clocks move back by 1 hour you gain 1 hour extra. If the clocks move forward you loose that 1 hour. I've observed this in previous years.

13 hours ago, Monkhai said:

Sorry, range is most certainly an issue. Mostly because of broken chargers or inconsiderate twits going to 100% in their eqs.

That's public charging anxiety 😰

I also used to get it before having full access to Tesla superchargers 😉

Not only an hour of free lecky this evening but 3 (three) hours tomorrow ie between noon and 3 pm, thank the sun and the air.....

When is it time to go green ? Now..

I just heard a rumour that the budget is geared up towards EV's, to replace the fuel duty that you not paying, they are weighing up either PPM or, weight as they are of the opinion that an EV is actually heavier then the normal car, even SUV's as SUV's (as long as they are ICE) pay fuel duty.

I think that the PPM would be based currently, solely on the miles driven rather than time of day or type of road. I said it before that it is thought that every time you plug in to charge, at home or anywhere else, you car is capable of reporting your current mileage automatically over the grid, but like I said, it is not yet confirmed, but may happen.

Obviously not confirmed pre Budget announcements or Leaks pre budget.

May well happen or just more flying of kites to see what responses come.

Articles being published or written by the Anti-EV journals or journalists and repeated by anyone.

How much more can the UK,s Labour Government do to have even more people less interested in getting a BEV and in the journey towards Net Zero and lower emissions targets?

Getting the 20% VAT rate down on Public Chargers is something that 'may well happen'.

Bring the social divide a bit closer and maybe not have private drivers hit more than they are already while Business / Commercial BEV drivers are getting the incentives and VAT rebates.

Edited 24 October, 202524 Oct by Evolution13

I finally worked out, it's you! Corsa-e, then mini, now MG 5. Stop changing names 😅

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I said it before that it is thought that every time you plug in to charge, at home or anywhere else, you car is capable of reporting your current mileage automatically over the grid, but like I said, it is not yet confirmed, but may happen.

Let's have a think, how does that happen exactly?

All current smart AC charge points don't even have the capability to read anything from the car. Not even battery SoC. There's 2 pins for confirming amp rating, one for charge point and one for cable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Signaling

So how can they report mileage?

Then go have a read ISO 15118, this is the international standard communication protocol between car and DC charger or V2G/V2H. Mileage reporting is still not one of the data being exchanged.

Me thinks social media sound-bytes are getting repeated without a thought/fact check.

19 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I just heard a rumour that the budget is geared up towards EV's, to replace the fuel duty that you not paying, they are weighing up either PPM or, weight as they are of the opinion that an EV is actually heavier then the normal car, even SUV's as SUV's (as long as they are ICE) pay fuel duty.

I think that the PPM would be based currently, solely on the miles driven rather than time of day or type of road. I said it before that it is thought that every time you plug in to charge, at home or anywhere else, you car is capable of reporting your current mileage automatically over the grid, but like I said, it is not yet confirmed, but may happen.

Express, Mail, Torygraph, GBNews, TalkTV ?

Or an actual news source rather than political sewerage outlet ?

16 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Express, Mail, Torygraph, GBNews, TalkTV ?

Or an actual news source rather than political sewerage outlet ?

Multiple sources as is the norm just before a budget, surely you must have heard and read about it in many places by now, there always leaks?

Edited 25 October, 202525 Oct by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Multiple sources as is the norm just before a budget, surely you must have heard and read about it in many places by now, there always leaks?

A very very small group of people talk about Budget measures, a handful of politians abd a handful of civil servants from Revenue Directorate and none of them would talk as it would be the end of their careers.

Pure speculation and pay per mile and charging higher VAT are none starters as taxes gave to be efficiently collectable which is why Excise Duty on disel and petrol are just so easy to collect as well as environmentally sound. 3% of fuel ie less than inflation sounds like sensible policy.

50 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

A very very small group of people talk about Budget measures, a handful of politians abd a handful of civil servants from Revenue Directorate and none of them would talk as it would be the end of their careers.

It seems to me that before every Budget there are "official" leaks to test the reaction to proposals being discussed, at least that's what "official sources" (said with a nod and a wink) by political reporters from the major media outlets suggest.

36 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

A very very small group of people talk about Budget measures, a handful of politians abd a handful of civil servants from Revenue Directorate and none of them would talk as it would be the end of their careers.

Pure speculation and pay per mile and charging higher VAT are none starters as taxes gave to be efficiently collectable which is why Excise Duty on disel and petrol are just so easy to collect as well as environmentally sound. 3% of fuel ie less than inflation sounds like sensible policy.

You appear to be in denial that this is even a possibility, yes, it might well be only 3% of the fuel sales currently (makes a mockery of the industry claim thought about EV's flying out the showrooms, which we all know is not true, currently, if it was, then there would not be any grants for them). But, this figure, unless there is a massive relaxation or reversal of the net-zero push, that figure will steadily increase, and the fuel duty will begin to decline at a bigger rate, and it will hit the poor government's ability to balance the books.

They have to be looking at how they can recoup that lost income, and the answer is right there, in the car, all EVs are recording the miles driven, and I dare say even the route taken especially if they have sat nav built in. Data is already carried along power lines, the technology for that has been around for many years. With the now digital VED, and the network of cameras across the UK and police cars, have ANPR capabilities. The phasing out of cash been underway for some time, the introduction of the digital ID system which we are supposed to be getting, bank accounts being scrutinised by government bodies, and will be linked to your digital ID.

Payment can be deducted direct from your bank account, and your bank account could also be frozen if they so wished, (apparently this is already being done in places like China and Vietnam, for example), also with so many EVs now having over the air software updates and even diagnostics done the same way, they could also if payment was not being made due to lack of funds what ever in your account, disable your car while your charging overnight at home.

All of these things are for a vehicle that must be plugged in to refuel, are or could be, a real possibility. True with the ANPR cameras they could attempt to do similar with ICE vehicles, but they would need far more cameras for that. When you stop and look at it like that, the book by George Orwell 1984, could become a reality.

So the moral here is, never say never, because it just might.

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

You appear to be in denial that this is even a possibility, yes, it might well be only 3% of the fuel sales currently (makes a mockery of the industry claim thought about EV's flying out the showrooms, which we all know is not true, currently, if it was, then there would not be any grants for them). But, this figure, unless there is a massive relaxation or reversal of the net-zero push, that figure will steadily increase, and the fuel duty will begin to decline at a bigger rate, and it will hit the poor government's ability to balance the books.

They have to be looking at how they can recoup that lost income, and the answer is right there, in the car, all EVs are recording the miles driven, and I dare say even the route taken especially if they have sat nav built in. Data is already carried along power lines, the technology for that has been around for many years. With the now digital VED, and the network of cameras across the UK and police cars, have ANPR capabilities. The phasing out of cash been underway for some time, the introduction of the digital ID system which we are supposed to be getting, bank accounts being scrutinised by government bodies, and will be linked to your digital ID.

Payment can be deducted direct from your bank account, and your bank account could also be frozen if they so wished, (apparently this is already being done in places like China and Vietnam, for example), also with so many EVs now having over the air software updates and even diagnostics done the same way, they could also if payment was not being made due to lack of funds what ever in your account, disable your car while your charging overnight at home.

All of these things are for a vehicle that must be plugged in to refuel, are or could be, a real possibility. True with the ANPR cameras they could attempt to do similar with ICE vehicles, but they would need far more cameras for that. When you stop and look at it like that, the book by George Orwell 1984, could become a reality.

So the moral here is, never say never, because it just might.

What is the 3% you quote above ?

Seems to me about 10% of private cars being driven on the road are EVs and with van it seems even more from what I see.

Registrations does not mean miles travelled on the road. As EVs are so cheap to run and tend to be newer vehicles drivers and companies gave acquired to do lots of miles and not relics for occasional outing though both are registered.

I have ordered another EV today, European Car of the Year 2025 Renault 5, cheapest version though with the yellow paint, EV grant applied so thank you fellow tax payers for the financial bung !

Edited 25 October, 202525 Oct by lol-lol

I expect the 5p fuel duty cut will be ended early

17 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I have ordered another EV today, European Car of the Year 2025 Renault 5, cheapest version though with the yellow paint, EV grant applied so thank you fellow tax payers for the financial bung !

And yet you were wittering on the other week about the 5 being too small for you to fit in...

10 minutes ago, skomaz said:

And yet you were wittering on the other week about the 5 being too small for you to fit in...

Some good deals on them though

42 minutes ago, skomaz said:

And yet you were wittering on the other week about the 5 being too small for you to fit in...

Front is fine it is the back seat area that is short on headroom as I am 6 foot 1 inch. I would have preferred a car that could have a drink and be put in the back and someone else drive but it seems that is not the R5 or R4, megane e is better but not great, not in tge league of the Scenic.

Just have to use the R5 when not expecting for me or any other of the six footers in the family likely to need to go in the back or just take the Scenic if that scenario expected.

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

Some good deals on them though

Dealers not able to give much discount at all as Renault set the price pretty low to start with. Not even 'Blue Light" discount whereas there is with the Megane e which brings the buy price on the two cars within 5k or so and tge Megane e has much bigger battery and more power but the R5 is just so iconic and a really looker in many people's opinion and Renault are quickly selling any stock arriving at the docks. Not the case with the R4 i gather, Rebaukr should bring in the LFP version I reckon.

I assume this to be the bigger battery top of the range, price conditional on using their PCP finance

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

What is the 3% you quote above ?

Seems to me about 10% of private cars being driven on the road are EVs and with van it seems even more from what I see.

Registrations does not mean miles travelled on the road. As EVs are so cheap to run and tend to be newer vehicles drivers and companies gave acquired to do lots of miles and not relics for occasional outing though both are registered.

I have ordered another EV today, European Car of the Year 2025 Renault 5, cheapest version though with the yellow paint, EV grant applied so thank you fellow tax payers for the financial bung !

The 3% is what you quoted in your post, I thought you was claiming that the 3% was how much fuel duty the EVs would add to the revenue. Which at £9.1 billion in 2025-6 would fetch an extra £273,000,000, very nice, thank you.

The Renault 5 has done a good job of capturing the essense of the old model,

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The 3% is what you quoted in your post, I thought you was claiming that the 3% was how much fuel duty the EVs would add to the revenue. Which at £9.1 billion in 2025-6 would fetch an extra £273,000,000, very nice, thank you.

The Renault 5 has done a good job of capturing the essense of the old model,

Ah, as the 5p discount is still on diesel and petrol ie it is almost exactly 53p where it was 58p a litre i can see that ramping up maybe back to 58p a litre in 3 or 4 stages over the next 3 or 4 years so it does not add to inflation too much. Bonus us there would be more VAT collected as well as there is VAT on the Excise Duty. I thought the excise duty collected was around £25B a year but it will decline as more drivers move to EVs. It has held up around the £25B pa as car drivers moved from the more thermally and furl efficient diesel to the less polluting, ie NOX, petrol engined cars.

I just have not heard of a workable pay per mile system. Increasingly EVs are getting their electricity from their home solar panel systems and trying to tax EVs is like trying to move water with a sieve.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I thought the excise duty collected was around £25B a year but it will decline as more drivers move to EVs.

I think that figure must be in the ballpark as they say.

The 5p discount is reported as costing £2.4 - £3bn a year.

Due to be removed next March unless extended.

So Removing it early at 6pm Budget Day would raise over £1bn

As evs increase they could replace the falling revenue by increasing the fuel duty as an added deterrent, like they did with Cigarettes.

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper

Don't fall into the trap that EVs are hard to tax on a PPM basis; they aren't. I think you'll find that a data signal can be superimposed onto the power cables, isn't that how the information is transmitted from your smart meter back to your power supplier? When they installed it, they never installed any other cables, and smart meters work perfectly, whereas some people find it almost impossible to get a mobile signal!

It matters not if you only charge your car from solar; the PPM is only charging you for using roads, so plugging your car into a charger is also connecting your car to the super data highway for data collection, as your car details, reg number, from which they can identify you, and the distance you have travelled.

With a digital ID system, and your bank details also connected to it, they are already being checked for signs of extra income, i.e., a side hustle on eBay bringing in more than £1,000 a year. There is no way to escape the charge, which is also cheap to collect by direct debit.

Big brother is watching us. We could all be sleep walking into a world like that painted in the novel, 1984. We are slowly being conditioned to that by being told how convenient these steps are for us, like withdrawing cash for digital money, but digital money can be manipulated by unscrupulous players.

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Graham Butcher

12 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Front is fine it is the back seat area that is short on headroom as I am 6 foot 1 inch. I would have preferred a car that could have a drink and be put in the back and someone else drive but it seems that is not the R5 or R4, megane e is better but not great, not in tge league of the Scenic.

Just have to use the R5 when not expecting for me or any other of the six footers in the family likely to need to go in the back or just take the Scenic if that scenario expected.

Yes the front is fine on so many cars for me as well, as they are not manuals, as with size 15 and extra wide feet, the footwell on manuals simply is bleeding dangerous for me to dive safely, far too easy to foul the pedals, or press 2 at once with such large feet, another reason for me to need a larger car is right there.

22 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes the front is fine on so many cars for me as well, as they are not manuals, as with size 15 and extra wide feet, the footwell on manuals simply is bleeding dangerous for me to dive safely, far too easy to foul the pedals, or press 2 at once with such large feet, another reason for me to need a larger car is right there.

The distance between pedals varies very little between sizes of cars. A small automatic would also offer you the same advantage by not having the clutch pedal and you only use 1 foot

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper

53 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Don't fall into the trap that EVs are hard to tax on a PPM basis; they aren't. I think you'll find that a data signal can be superimposed onto the power cables, isn't that how the information is transmitted from your smart meter back to your power supplier? When they installed it, they never installed any other cables, and smart meters work perfectly, whereas some people find it almost impossible to get a mobile signal!

It matters not if you only charge your car from solar; the PPM is only charging you for using roads, so plugging your car into a charger is also connecting your car to the super data highway for data collection, as your car details, reg number, from which they can identify you, and the distance you have travelled.

With a digital ID system, and your bank details also connected to it, they are already being checked for signs of extra income, i.e., a side hustle on eBay bringing in more than £1,000 a year. There is no way to escape the charge, which is also cheap to collect by direct debit.

Big brother is watching us. We could all be sleep walking into a world like that painted in the novel, 1984. We are slowly being conditioned to that by being told how convenient these steps are for us, like withdrawing cash for digital money, but digital money can be manipulated by unscrupulous players.

Unfortunately after decades of systems involving cash and a reliance on people to declare honestly their earnings, we are in a place where public services can’t cope.

Annoyingly if you make more than £1000 from a side hustle you should pay tax on that. If they decide to tax “classic” cars and tax large cars by weight then so be it. Vote for the party that will change things back at the next general election, but the money will have to come from somewhere or the public services reduced.

We need to close all the legal loopholes for reducing tax liability and reset the thresholds for higher amounts.

At the moment with the fiscal drag method of raising revenue.

20% of everyone's increase in income or 40%for higher tax payers is taken by Government is perceived to have been taken.

But the very wealthy can switch the raise to a method in which they pay no more.

Everyone should be paying at least 20% irrespective of where the income comes from

History of the current fiscal drag

And Labour will use this to blame the Conservatives and keep it until 2028

Edited 26 October, 202526 Oct by Stonekeeper