Water is a logistical world problem not a shortage of water.

The Uk's problems are caused by profit hungry private companies and people washing cars and gardening with drinking quality water.

Yes logistical as in many world regions suffering drought and people dying. Starving people & crop failures, who cares? Just World wide greed. But the world being over populated & those dying it is hardly a concern for those with plenty.

Edited 5 June5 Jun by Evolution13

37 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Yes logistical as in many world regions suffering drought and people dying. Starving people & crop failures, who cares? Just World wide greed. But the world being over populated & those dying it is hardly a concern for those with plenty.

Pipelines could be ran just the same as oil pipelines are. desalination is possible anywhere.

Countries could trade water for Solar power. But it would need Governments not Private profiteers

Edited 5 June5 Jun by Stonekeeper

Well oil pipelines require gas and pumping stations to move the oil along, up hill and dales and through valleys. Water flows nicely down hill by pipeline. Also where there is flooding and then too much water. Pumping stations yet again requires energy, in some areas wind and solar provide that energy. What a pity that Countries and Nations will spend more on war than the worlds essentials for peoples daily needs. Then obviously wiping out the desalination plants and pipelines is part of what is happening in some middle east countries. (De-desalination??)

Edited 5 June5 Jun by Evolution13

3 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

(De-desalination??)

Sorry corrected now, I put De-salination and it was autocorrected ☹️

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Pipelines could be ran just the same as oil pipelines are. desalination is possible anywhere.

Countries could trade water for Solar power. But it would need Governments not Private profiteers

What it needs is proper statesmen in the governments; without them, governments just tend to the bidding of the wealthy private profiteers who employ the best lobby groups, fund the think tanks and bankroll government parties to ensure that they get their way.

21 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Hmm, so are our coal / wood pellet fuelled power stations days numbered. Will anybody actually commit to a date and keep to it is the real question.

I thought it was only Drax that did this these days. Green washing power station as with "sustainable" hydrocarbon fuels.

Economics are driving the rapid move to renewables and with government investments in nuclear to provide reliable energy in case of rebewables not being available.

Edited 6 June6 Jun by lol-lol

Octopus just released its slot electricity prices on its Agile TOU tariff.

11 hours of negative priced electricity tomorrow 7th of June 2026 !

The truth is I love having electric cars and the savings with running them !

Home running costs will benefit from the negative prices too.

Edited Saturday at 16:375 days by lol-lol

Found but not yet verified;

"Germany is paying households to charge their EVs at night — and using 4 million car batteries as a single giant grid storage asset.

The concept is called Vehicle-to-Grid, and Germany is deploying it at a scale that makes every previous trial look like a proof of concept. Under Germany's amended Energy Industry Act, EV owners can register their vehicle's battery as a grid asset — allowing the grid operator to draw power from the car during peak demand periods and charge it during surplus periods, automatically, without driver involvement. In exchange, the owner receives payments that offset a significant portion of their electricity costs.

Volkswagen's bidirectional charging system — deployed across its ID. series vehicles from 2023 — supports up to 11 kilowatts of Vehicle-to-Grid discharge. A single ID.4 with a 77-kilowatt-hour battery can discharge enough electricity to power an average German home for three days. Four million such vehicles — the number of EVs on German roads by 2025 — represent a theoretical grid storage asset of 308,000 megawatt-hours. That is more storage than all of Germany's dedicated grid-scale battery installations combined, distributed across the country, plugged in every night when electricity demand is lowest and renewables are most abundant.

The economics compound the physics. German EV owners who participate in Vehicle-to-Grid schemes buy electricity at off-peak rates — as low as €0.08 per kilowatt-hour at night — and sell it back during peak periods at rates that can reach €0.35 per kilowatt-hour. The car earns money while the owner sleeps. The grid gets storage it did not have to build. The renewable energy that would otherwise be curtailed finds a use. Every party in the transaction wins simultaneously. Germany is not building a battery storage network. It is discovering that it already has one, parked in 4 million driveways.

Source: Bundesnetzagentur — Vehicle-to-Grid Implementation Framework Report 2023

10 hours ago, Lee01 said:

Found but not yet verified;

"Germany is paying households to charge their EVs at night — and using 4 million car batteries as a single giant grid storage asset.

The concept is called Vehicle-to-Grid, and Germany is deploying it at a scale that makes every previous trial look like a proof of concept. Under Germany's amended Energy Industry Act, EV owners can register their vehicle's battery as a grid asset — allowing the grid operator to draw power from the car during peak demand periods and charge it during surplus periods, automatically, without driver involvement. In exchange, the owner receives payments that offset a significant portion of their electricity costs.

Volkswagen's bidirectional charging system — deployed across its ID. series vehicles from 2023 — supports up to 11 kilowatts of Vehicle-to-Grid discharge. A single ID.4 with a 77-kilowatt-hour battery can discharge enough electricity to power an average German home for three days. Four million such vehicles — the number of EVs on German roads by 2025 — represent a theoretical grid storage asset of 308,000 megawatt-hours. That is more storage than all of Germany's dedicated grid-scale battery installations combined, distributed across the country, plugged in every night when electricity demand is lowest and renewables are most abundant.

The economics compound the physics. German EV owners who participate in Vehicle-to-Grid schemes buy electricity at off-peak rates — as low as €0.08 per kilowatt-hour at night — and sell it back during peak periods at rates that can reach €0.35 per kilowatt-hour. The car earns money while the owner sleeps. The grid gets storage it did not have to build. The renewable energy that would otherwise be curtailed finds a use. Every party in the transaction wins simultaneously. Germany is not building a battery storage network. It is discovering that it already has one, parked in 4 million driveways.

Source: Bundesnetzagentur — Vehicle-to-Grid Implementation Framework Report 2023

Today I am getting electricity for less than zero pence per KWh, ie I am being paid to take it.

Would I selm it back to the Grid at 30p per KWh but would I agree to sell it back at 10p per KWh, probably not.

There is the rub. Whilst even my 40 KWh Renault 5 can do 11 KWs thru its Bidirectional onboard DC to AC invertor would i want the degradation to my battery for a poultry 10 p per KWh, probably no.

I thought my 40 KWh was going to be LFP but it is Lithium NMC so not as robust in charge-discharge cycles. New Twingo is going to be LFP and noe many other EVs are LFP rather than NMC.

Not sure my newish Indra wallbox is bidirectional, pretty sure it is not so they need to be converted and I imagine that is not cheap.

Edited Sunday at 03:575 days by lol-lol

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Today I am getting electricity for less than zero pence per KWh, ie I am being paid to take it.

Would I selm it back to the Grid at 30p per KWh but would I agree to sell it back at 10p per KWh, probably not.

There is the rub. Whilst even my 40 KWh Renault 5 can do 11 KWs thru its Bidirectional onboard DC to AC invertor would i want the degradation to my battery for a poultry 10 p per KWh, probably no.

I thought my 40 KWh was going to be LFP but it is Lithium NMC so not as robust in charge-discharge cycles. New Twingo is going to be LFP and noe many other EVs are LFP rather than NMC.

Not sure my newish Indra wallbox is bidirectional, pretty sure it is not so they need to be converted and I imagine that is not cheap.

Yes, there is bound to a set of balances and checks before it might become viable. It is extremely rare that you actually find yourself getting something for nothing and today's tech advances often means before you can gain, you need to spend and tomorrows tech advances may render it all useless.

23 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, there is bound to a set of balances and checks before it might become viable. It is extremely rare that you actually find yourself getting something for nothing and today's tech advances often means before you can gain, you need to spend and tomorrows tech advances may render it all useless.

As Martin Lewis constantly states the non fixed and non Time of Use tariffs, ie where you pay the single rate at the cap rate, are PANTs.

The thought of paying 30p per KWh all the time for electricity is horrible. On Octopus GO i had got my average down to 11p per KWh average but then Middle East war got that tariff up much higher sobswutched to Agile and last bill was averaging 15p pet KWh but I think I can do better than that. Effectively halfing my bill if I did not do something about it. All helps with the running costs of the EVs.

Investment in my own generation and storage is the other plan in motion. No expensive roof solar for me or TESLA power wall battery setup for me. Panels bolted to frames where I can and tri function so called solar battery invertor devices which can take in solar energy, store if abd then output electricity for lighting, power fridge freezer etc.

These devices also useful for when, like we just had, loss of electricity during power cuts during the thunder storms.

Buy wisely, Amazon Prime and events like Black Friday etc best time to buy. Buy Lithium Iron Phosphare rThef than Ithium NMC as you should get 10 years use rather than 3 with NMC.

Next battery device I buy will have the full 4 KW output to power anything but waiting for prices to fall further. Mobile batteries of 16 KWh looking interesting and payback looks like 2 or 3 rears and not the 5 or 10 until recently and with the EVs acting as massive mobile stores of electricity when prices go low, zero or negative !

@lol-lol you got your rates that low partly thanks to your EV, I don't have one, or the ability to charge at home.

If was to go and buy storage batteries etc and the HA found out, I'd be in breach of their rules. There really is with this policy, the creation of further class barriers etc which has been discussed before and is but one reason that the governments plan to get us all in electric cars is failing dismally. It is a poorly thought out policy which is being pushed by the elites with zero regard for the majority of citizens who for various reasons cannot have an electric car.

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol you got your rates that low partly thanks to your EV, I don't have one, or the ability to charge at home.

If was to go and buy storage batteries etc and the HA found out, I'd be in breach of their rules. There really is with this policy, the creation of further class barriers etc which has been discussed before and is but one reason that the governments plan to get us all in electric cars is failing dismally. It is a poorly thought out policy which is being pushed by the elites with zero regard for the majority of citizens who for various reasons cannot have an electric car.

Tariff i am on ie Agile, has no requirement for having an EV and rewards use when electricity is cheap and demands higher average payment when electricity ie expensive which is also when the dirty fossil fuelled Peaker plants com online.

Some of my battery solar invetor devices are very small and look like a torch or indescribable box and since most people's houses are dotted with mobile phones and tablets that are the more dangerous lithium he nkn LFP devices and restriction on have such batteries and invertors us really a nonsense.

We fave tebs of millions with "Balcony" solar all over Europe, probabky hundreds of millions throughout the world and fof nany it is essential to maintain life in poor countries.

Edited Monday at 10:204 days by lol-lol

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Tariff i am on ie Agile, has no requirement for having an EV and rewards use when electricity is cheap and demands higher average payment when electricity ie expensive which is also when the dirty fossil fuelled Peaker plants com online.

Some of my battery solar invetor devices are very small and look like a torch or indescribable box and since most people's houses are dotted with mobile phones and tablets that are the more dangerous lithium he nkn LFP devices and restriction on have such batteries and invertors us really a nonsense.

We fave tebs of millions with "Balcony" solar all over Europe, probabky hundreds of millions throughout the world and fof nany it is essential to maintain life in poor countries.

Don't fall for the guff that LFP is any less dangerous, it's a falicy. It is true they are more robust, but in the event of a failure are just as dangerous.

The batteries inside mobiles, laptops etc are not only tiny in capacity but are also under very strict and close control by well engineered BMSs which have stood the test of time now, how often do you hear of fires with such devices?

The biggest single threat in that sector are after market power banks that people buy to carry with them incase the phone runs low. These power banks are often sourced from places like Temu etc with corners cut in their design to keep prices low.

58 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Don't fall for the guff that LFP is any less dangerous, it's a falicy. It is true they are more robust, but in the event of a failure are just as dangerous.

The batteries inside mobiles, laptops etc are not only tiny in capacity but are also under very strict and close control by well engineered BMSs which have stood the test of time now, how often do you hear of fires with such devices?

The biggest single threat in that sector are after market power banks that people buy to carry with them incase the phone runs low. These power banks are often sourced from places like Temu etc with corners cut in their design to keep prices low.

In logistics, particularly air freight, there us massive fear of mobile phones, tablets, power banks. Plans have been turned vack mid journey back to home airport due to finding these devices on board. We do take extraordinary procedures with all batteries above quite a small size.

In operation I have found these home solar battery invertors very well made, well impressed with their biuld quality and BMS. With all the high levels of sunshine we gave had over the last 4 months I am impressed witn devices fro. £14 to £500 how good they are when they hit 100% charge from the solar. Fan kick in, charging shuts off. The Chinese ones I have bought have all been very impressive with just the Allpower lithium NMC just stopping working. I expect in most cases ie bulk exports China is careful to allow good quality export like Japan did 50 or so years ago.

Postal is a leaky environment but it is being made uneconomical by new tariffs so will likely be strangled off.

Fully understand the concerns with planes, however the concern is not with mobile phones belonging to passengers, but the carrying of bulk phones in cargo holds etc as any failure there would set of a chain reaction with other phones in the shipment, all within a unmanned cargo area, which would be uncontrollable. I'm lead to believe that airlines are very concerned about personal power banks because they have greater capacity than a phone battery as they can top up most phones 2 maybe 3 times so they along with sometimes dubious origins pose a far higher threat level.

A posse of Police EV,s charging at the public hub today. Including an unmarked Polestar. Public tariff is 60 pence a kWh and and an overstay fee of £10 after 1 hour 10 minutes. I wonder if that is being waived by Angus Council for the Police vehicles as 1 was into the overstay.

Edited Tuesday at 12:162 days by Evolution13

59 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

A posse of Police EV,s charging at the public hub today. Including an unmarked Polestar. Public tariff is 60 pence a kWh and and an overstay fee of £10 after 1 hour 10 minutes. I wonder if that is being waived by Angus Council for the Police vehicles as 1 was into the overstay.

They can get the 20% VAT back and I don't know whether there is deals that public charging supplier does.

I seem to be being offered more and more public charging offers, notably BE EV which i gather is now largely owned by Octopus and now the MER network has been integrated. I just do so little public charging but might get for a month or 3 for summer driving as it can pay for itself in one or 2 charges.

1 hour ago, Evolution13 said:

A posse of Police EV,s charging at the public hub today. Including an unmarked Polestar. Public tariff is 60 pence a kWh and and an overstay fee of £10 after 1 hour 10 minutes. I wonder if that is being waived by Angus Council for the Police vehicles as 1 was into the overstay.

Lol, I can see the criminals making absolutely sure they all have ICE cars and have full tanks while police are all out getting recharged. 🤣🤣

54 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Lol, I can see the criminals making absolutely sure they all have ICE cars and have full tanks while police are all out getting recharged. 🤣🤣

An ICE car at 140 mph will be getting about one eighth of the mpg that it would get at 70 mph so well down in single figures mpghebce these pursuits rarely last more than half hour when in combination with tge radio ahead abd road block.

At indicated 155 my Octavia VRS was probably doing about 6 mpg.

Not quite at James May's 12 minutes at 250 mph for the 26 gallon tank for the Veyron but all cars gulp fuel at full chat.

Only hybrids and EVs with their regen can go big distances on much less fuel putting back massive the amounts of energy can put back in the system as with the new F1 hybrid cars and even more so with GEN4 Formula e cars.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

An ICE car at 140 mph will be getting about one eighth of the mpg that it would get at 70 mph so well down in single figures mpghebce these pursuits rarely last more than half hour when in combination with tge radio ahead abd road block.

At indicated 155 my Octavia VRS was probably doing about 6 mpg.

Not quite at James May's 12 minutes at 250 mph for the 26 gallon tank for the Veyron but all cars gulp fuel at full chat.

Only hybrids and EVs with their regen can go big distances on much less fuel putting back massive the amounts of energy can put back in the system as with the new F1 hybrid cars and even more so with GEN4 Formula e cars.

I think you're so busy being defensive for the electric car that you're kind of missing the point, which is with the police cars being coupled up to chargers, it would take them a while to uncouple themselves from the charger, and then they may even still be at a low SOC, so they're not able to hot pursuit for long, especially at full chat, as they just gobble the charge up, as we all know. Hence, why you often see BEVs sitting at around 50-55 mph because any faster and they quickly run out of steam; there's no chance of doing regen. Or do you expect the bad guys not to exploit that particular weakness and hang around to give the police a chance to catch them? 🤣🤣

Besides which, they are very likely to have another car waiting in some side street where they will debunk the "known" car and hotfoot it in the other car which the police have no clue about.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think you're so busy being defensive for the electric car that you're kind of missing the point, which is with the police cars being coupled up to chargers, it would take them a while to uncouple themselves from the charger, and then they may even still be at a low SOC, so they're not able to hot pursuit for long, especially at full chat, as they just gobble the charge up, as we all know. Hence, why you often see BEVs sitting at around 50-55 mph because any faster and they quickly run out of steam; there's no chance of doing regen. Or do you expect the bad guys not to exploit that particular weakness and hang around to give the police a chance to catch them? 🤣🤣

Besides which, they are very likely to have another car waiting in some side street where they will debunk the "known" car and hotfoot it in the other car which the police have no clue about.

Both the speed of charging and the cable tie both have solutions and just a casevof UK rolling out what other countryes are already doing.

BYD has charging as quick as using a fuel hose for an ICE vehicle ie 1 to 1.5 MW so only takes a handful of minutes to get mostly of the battery charged.

Induction charging with loops in the ground are already being used in some even European countries.

Most pirsuits use radios to block the road ahead.

31 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Both the speed of charging and the cable tie both have solutions and just a casevof UK rolling out what other countryes are already doing.

BYD has charging as quick as using a fuel hose for an ICE vehicle ie 1 to 1.5 MW so only takes a handful of minutes to get mostly of the battery charged.

Induction charging with loops in the ground are already being used in some even European countries.

Most pirsuits use radios to block the road ahead.

To charge at those speeds requires a massive grid connection, which is not only very expensive, but also currently only a few cars are capable of accepting a high charge rate like that. When you consider that a very large county like Essex has a fleet of 800 police cars and not all of them will be available at any one time, there will be a few in maintenance, some in for crash repairs, etc., and others just with no crews to man them. The rest will not be in the vicinity at the time, and others would not be able to reach the location in time in many cases.

Yes, I agree the radios and roadblocks can be useful. and instrumental in bringing some pursuits to a close, but they tend not to be organised crime, more stolen or uninsured drivers trying to avoid being stopped.

The organised bank robbery villains, etc., will have prepared properly, and the getaway car will be dumped quickly, and the occupants decamped to other pre-placed cars and drove away in all directions so they will not be affected by roadblocks.

19 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

To charge at those speeds requires a massive grid connection, which is not only very expensive, but also currently only a few cars are capable of accepting a high charge rate like that. When you consider that a very large county like Essex has a fleet of 800 police cars and not all of them will be available at any one time, there will be a few in maintenance, some in for crash repairs, etc., and others just with no crews to man them. The rest will not be in the vicinity at the time, and others would not be able to reach the location in time in many cases.

Yes, I agree the radios and roadblocks can be useful. and instrumental in bringing some pursuits to a close, but they tend not to be organised crime, more stolen or uninsured drivers trying to avoid being stopped.

The organised bank robbery villains, etc., will have prepared properly, and the getaway car will be dumped quickly, and the occupants decamped to other pre-placed cars and drove away in all directions so they will not be affected by roadblocks.

Container sized power banks are becoming much more common working with the Megawatt chargers.

Other countries have stipulated all car parks over 80 spaces have solar canopies to help local generation. Costs are plummeting for LFP batteries and sub $20 per KWh coming soon down from current $50 to $40.