It does look like that the historic data that has been published everywhere that everyone keeps using to claim the electric cars, BEV and Hybrids are less likely to catch fire than ICE cars has finally been exposed as bogus. Something that I said a long time ago, was the fire depts and other authorities have not been recording the data correctly, if at all in some cases. Now NIST has investigated and exposed the figures as being massively wrong as this report shows.

Guys, I'm just reporting what NIST has found, so don't shoot the messenger.

Understanding the Risk of Lithium-Ion Battery Fires - multi-source data analysis

Those BEV Police Interceptors in Forfar which are about 500 meters from the A90 are charging at 50 kW max. (Ridiculous sitting there hogging Public Chargers IMO) As far as chases up the A90 or A92 or any back roads around Angus there are plenty of them about as well as ICE vehicles. The Orchard Bank Public chargers, only 4 CCS 50 kW are far left, and the Police HQ is now where it says Carnoustie Country having moved the Police HQ out of the town. The area bottom of map is where the New Low Carbon Hub complex with Super Fast charging for HGV,s and the Hydrogen hub is supposed to be going.

Edited Wednesday at 05:582 days by Evolution13

Down here, the police in Basildon share the bus chargers in the bus garage for their interceptors, according to a press release.

^^^ As in Aberdeen.

Dealer addressing the scaremongers about the cost of fixing a battery out of warranty.

26 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Dealer addressing the scaremongers about the cost of fixing a battery out of warranty.

Cleeverly are the dog's dooberies. Put main dealers to shame. Fortunately only 20 miles from Worcester.

Edited Wednesday at 19:022 days by lol-lol

So Porsche won the court case over the loss of the ship Felicity Ace, as it was impossible to be 100% sure that the fire started with one of their cars. There is no doubt, and it is not being denied by any of the experts, that the spread of the fire and not being able to put it out were due to the fact that EV cars were on board, as even sealing the decks and the complete flooding of those decks with CO₂ cannot stop the fire because the batteries are self-oxidising.

It is also good to see that what's going on with Shipping Channel endorses the same channel that I watch, StacheD Training.

Also, it's great to see that finally someone else also states the much-heralded fire blankets, which so many people believe put out these battery fires, do not do so because the batteries make their own oxygen and thus keep burning. They can, however, help prevent the spread of the fire, but not in ships or car parks because you cannot get the blanket over the fire because the other cars are too close.

Nobody is attempting to say, for the avoidance of any doubt, that ICE cars do not also have risks associated with them, but it is an undeniable fact that the risks with EVs are of a much higher magnitude, especially when in such places as car parks of any type and transporters of any type because they will be in close proximity to other cars, and as more EVs are put on the roads, this risk is increasing.

19 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Dealer addressing the scaremongers about the cost of fixing a battery out of warranty.

So you cannot rely on a state of battery health report, but many people have said that you should always get one before buying a second-hand EV. As to Cleeverly being the dogs you know what, that speaks for itself if anyone watches their videos. Sadly, however, they are in the minority; we do so desperately need more people/garages with their skill set and philosophy, and not just for EVs but all cars in general and I did indeed a while ago suggest that this site should develop a directory of these independent garages who do provide good services to their customers, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Perhaps it might be a good idea if a few more of the established members also suggested this; then we might actually get this service up and running and be able to begin to escape the dealers escalating costs and save money.

Edited yesterday at 14:371 day by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

So you cannot rely on a state of battery health report, but many people have said that you should always get one before buying a second-hand EV. As to Cleeverly being the dogs you know what, that speaks for itself if anyone watches their videos. Sadly, however, they are in the minority; we do so desperately need more people/garages with their skill set and philosophy, and not just for EVs but all cars in general and I did indeed a while ago suggest that this site should develop a directory of these independent garages who do provide good services to their customers, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Perhaps it might be a good idea if a few more of the established members also suggested this; then we might actually get this service up and running and be able to begin to escape the dealers escalating costs and save money.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

So you cannot rely on a state of battery health report, but many people have said that you should always get one before buying a second-hand EV. As to Cleeverly being the dogs you know what, that speaks for itself if anyone watches their videos. Sadly, however, they are in the minority; we do so desperately need more people/garages with their skill set and philosophy, and not just for EVs but all cars in general and I did indeed a while ago suggest that this site should develop a directory of these independent garages who do provide good services to their customers, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Perhaps it might be a good idea if a few more of the established members also suggested this; then we might actually get this service up and running and be able to begin to escape the dealers escalating costs and save money.

Cars scanner reports worst cell pack voltage so don't know why more do not use it.

Even with the Lithium NMC tech which is generally being replaced by LFP and soon Sodium is going to be widespread, both cheaper and safer, we mostly charge to 80% but once a month to 100% so the car can cell balance.

In transportation batteries should be at their lowest state of charge without damaging the battery, provably about 15% true.

Use of CO2 flooding used to starve conventional fires of oxygen but lithium battery fires, like any fire but especially lthium, need early detection and some cleverer thinking and approach, perhaps freezing gas containment by Nitrogen or another inert gas. Sure science has a way. Wonder what systems the new 9,300 car BYD ship has on it. As CMA we move 4m cars a year and are now oft using an electric truck to pull the car transporters. Tech will prevail.

58 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Cars scanner reports worst cell pack voltage so don't know why more do not use it.

Even with the Lithium NMC tech which is generally being replaced by LFP and soon Sodium is going to be widespread, both cheaper and safer, we mostly charge to 80% but once a month to 100% so the car can cell balance.

In transportation batteries should be at their lowest state of charge without damaging the battery, provably about 15% true.

Use of CO2 flooding used to starve conventional fires of oxygen but lithium battery fires, like any fire but especially lthium, need early detection and some cleverer thinking and approach, perhaps freezing gas containment by Nitrogen or another inert gas. Sure science has a way. Wonder what systems the new 9,300 car BYD ship has on it. As CMA we move 4m cars a year and are now oft using an electric truck to pull the car transporters. Tech will prevail.

No doubt that there will be a solution in the fullness of time, but surely in the meantime, it would have made more sense to just leave the EV era to market forces and not be pushing the net zero ideology or the clean air or climate. change agenda. Instead, they should be encouraging the industry to further clean up the emissions, which the industry has been doing all the time. The tailpipe emissions of today's ICE cars are nothing like they were just 50 years ago. Since then, they have extracted many more times the HP output for a given engine size. In the same period they have doubled or tripled the mpg figures despite engine sizes increasing; that alone has reduced tailpipe emissions.

For example, my first car was a Hillman Minx, a 1400 cc engine, just 37.5 HP, a top speed of 67 mph and a 0-60 mph time of 39.7 seconds, which compares badly against the Kodiaq of 2,000 cc, 122+ mph, 150 HP and 0-60 time of 9.2 seconds. The industry has not stood still, and maybe with a little more encouragement, it would have been even better still.

30 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No doubt that there will be a solution in the fullness of time, but surely in the meantime, it would have made more sense to just leave the EV era to market forces and not be pushing the net zero ideology or the clean air or climate. change agenda. Instead, they should be encouraging the industry to further clean up the emissions, which the industry has been doing all the time. The tailpipe emissions of today's ICE cars are nothing like they were just 50 years ago. Since then, they have extracted many more times the HP output for a given engine size. In the same period they have doubled or tripled the mpg figures despite engine sizes increasing; that alone has reduced tailpipe emissions.

For example, my first car was a Hillman Minx, a 1400 cc engine, just 37.5 HP, a top speed of 67 mph and a 0-60 mph time of 39.7 seconds, which compares badly against the Kodiaq of 2,000 cc, 122+ mph, 150 HP and 0-60 time of 9.2 seconds. The industry has not stood still, and maybe with a little more encouragement, it would have been even better still.

I have not counted on or been swayed by EV subsidies in the UK. The amount of subsidy alot less than the VAT so government still net recipient of dash.

I have no problem with ICE cars continuing if they can genuinely meet low emmissions in real world driving not just in a lab.

Genuinely less than 50 gm/CO2, 60 mg/NO and minute PM 2.5 and 10s.

Not many ICE cars do and really we need strong PHEVs so ICE can be disabled in areas where pollution of and if the bad gases and particles are above very liw limits which are not shortening the lives of tens if thousands of UK citizens.

Edited yesterday at 19:131 day by lol-lol

@lol-lol Sorry if you felt I was having a go at you; I was not. I was just stating the real truth. ICE has cleaned up its act considerably over the years, and I still think that there is still room for more improvement.

You yourself, said the other day that your Octavia VRS at full chat was probably giving about 6 mpg, but the point is that even an EV at full chat is grossly inefficient.but driven with care they could return greater range with regen, etc., and exactly the same is true with ICE cars. It would be great if traffic could be kept flowing in towns and cities and coming to a halt could be prevented, even with the stop/start, at which point ICE are exactly like EVs, not consuming any fuel or emitting emissions. But if these complete stops could be prevented, then both techs would be capable of better results.

both techs have more in common with each other than many would like to believe; both are restricted by the laws of physics and both will therefore consume greater amounts of power with rapid acceleration and higher speeds, so why not restrict both to more sensible figures and save the planet together?

Something that I keep noticing is that it seems that Amazon is apparently using more diesel-powered vans on the last-mile deliveries. I noticed again today 2 different Amazon vans in my area doing last-mile deliveries; one was delivering to houses and the other delivering to Amazon drop-off/collection hubs outside local shops.

Has anyone else noticed this at all?

If this is factual, then this will be a complete game changer, leaving only the charging conundrum that could be the roadblock to many more people adopting electric cars.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by Graham Butcher