@Winston_Woof @PetrolDave @Graham Butcher There is a hybrid petrol/electric version of a Cessna Skymaster using one of the normal Continentals and an electric motor to drive the other propeller. However, it is fitted with the belly cargo pod, which is used as the location for the battery pack, so it's badly compromised on payload volume/mass compared with a conventional twin Continental machine.

I believe that was the one linked too a few posts back yes

52 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

Error, contradiction detected.

Err, no contradiction at all, it exists only in your head. EVs are ideal for those who drive either in the cities or short trips and can return home to charge, in which case, providing electric  does not take a massive increase in price, they make perfect sense. 

 

The fall from grace bit is eminating from the time when people will be told once again, that EVs were not the future for the masses after all, just like the diesel was once claimed to be the fuel if the future. I thought that I made that clear in what I said, seems that you missed that point entirely. 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Flights from islands to mainland and the other way are not long haul, or internal UK flights, up and down the UK and across.

That is the British Isles flights.

Actually short range deliveries and longer can now be done by drone.

As can 'Fly over surveying' that no longer requires a plane flown by a person, but if such is needed then new technology is coming on in leaps and bounds.

 

Helicopters will advance as far as being Greener and more useful than the likes of the Firefly which is a modified Sikorsky S-300C.

 

@Graham Butcher  If the EV sales or first registration are dropping and they might be, and those that lease rent ones might be waiting on the newer ones becoming available that will be that.

 

But you can be sure that the Manufacturers / Importers will get 22% of New Car registrations to be BEV,s and 10% of Vans in the UK.

And the percentage will rise as required to stop the Manufacturers / Importers from paying the financial penalty for missing the percentage required.

 

There are waiting lists on some models and just order books opened or due to open for vehicles to be available this year or into next.

 

The next budget might make a difference to again encourage the up-take of EV,s, but time will tell.

Maybe those that were counting on the Winter Fuel Payment to pay for the Energy to charge there new Luxury or not so luxury EV will now think again.

After all not getting £200 or £300 into the household income will put them off paying 10 pence a Kwh or less to run there £40,000 plus new vehicle.

 

It is a funny old world. 

 

PS.

You seem to just ignore how Rep-mobile BEV,s are around inter-city on the Kings Highways running up the miles.

These will be the high mile EV,s that get shown in videos and appear for sale.

Working cars that people do drive not only in a town or city and or only charge at home.  Tools of work.  Vehicles.      ,...,,..the dirty diesel passed its MOT with a few advisories and the tail light repair tape was OK. 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@PetrolDave  engineers are up to the task when it comes to head for thinking and feet for dancing, so what will happen with Long Distance Basses is what will happen with HGV,s and long distance haulage.

Battery swaps at a stop point / depot, at places that are added to the infrastructure of a country.

Like the Low Carbon Emission Transport Hubs planned and being built in Scotland.

Charging for EV,s and refilling for Hydrogen Vehicles and production of hydrogen there and battery storage for electricity being produced near-by.

It is not even rocket science, with rocket science you send something away for millions of miles and months or years.

(Must be like it used to be on a Berry Bus in Tayside when Stage Coach started...) 

 

England will start to catch up with the Rest of the World once it can get some energy security and not having to keep buying in others Oil, Gas, Electricity and even wood chippings or bio / synthetic fuels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

52 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

 

Maybe those that were counting on the Winter Fuel Payment to pay for the Energy to charge there new Luxury or not so luxury EV will now think again.

After all not getting £200 or £300 into the household income will put them off paying 10 pence a Kwh or less to run there £40,000 plus new vehicle.

 

 

 

if you're counting on the Winter Fuel Payment  to pay  to charge your £40k + new vehicle maybe you should sell the car and get something cheaper and more affordable to run, Like an older Skoda Superb with a good old ICE  

30 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@PetrolDave  engineers are up to the task when it comes to head for thinking and feet for dancing, so what will happen with Long Distance Basses is what will happen with HGV,s and long distance haulage.

Battery swaps at a stop point / depot, at places that are added to the infrastructure of a country.

Like the Low Carbon Emission Transport Hubs planned and being built in Scotland.

Charging for EV,s and refilling for Hydrogen Vehicles and production of hydrogen there and battery storage for electricity being produced near-by.

It is not even rocket science, with rocket science you send something away for millions of miles and months or years.

(Must be like it used to be on a Berry Bus in Tayside when Stage Coach started...) 

 

England will start to catch up with the Rest of the World once it can get some energy security and not having to keep buying in others Oil, Gas, Electricity and even wood chippings or bio / synthetic fuels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm, great in theory but that has already been tried for cars and if I'm not mistaken has proved to be a total failure and the company that was doing that as a trail has gone bust I seem to recall. It also requires all batteries to be the same, so that no matter what vehicle you drive, you could drive into a swapping station, and provided there is a fully charged battery available, drive in and have it automatically swapped in about 5 minutes, roughly the same time it takes to fully fill a ICE tank. 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher  i seem to have missed where it has been a total failure. 

I am sure you will not be mistaken, sometimes you are right, not so sure if more than not though. 

 

EDIT.

TESLA failed at it.  Not seeing where those that build the cars and have the batteries have failed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher  If the EV sales or first registration are dropping and they might be, and those that lease rent ones might be waiting on the newer ones becoming available that will be that.

 

But you can be sure that the Manufacturers / Importers will get 22% of New Car registrations to be BEV,s and 10% of Vans in the UK.

And the percentage will rise as required to stop the Manufacturers / Importers from paying the financial penalty for missing the percentage required.

 

There are waiting lists on some models and just order books opened or due to open for vehicles to be available this year or into next.

 

The next budget might make a difference to again encourage the up-take of EV,s, but time will tell.

Maybe those that were counting on the Winter Fuel Payment to pay for the Energy to charge there new Luxury or not so luxury EV will now think again.

After all not getting £200 or £300 into the household income will put them off paying 10 pence a Kwh or less to run there £40,000 plus new vehicle.

 

It is a funny old world. 

 

PS.

You seem to just ignore how Rep-mobile BEV,s are around inter-city on the Kings Highways running up the miles.

These will be the high mile EV,s that get shown in videos and appear for sale.

Working cars that people do drive not only in a town or city and or only charge at home.  Tools of work.  Vehicles.      ,...,,..the dirty diesel passed its MOT with a few advisories and the tail light repair tape was OK. 

Yes it is a funny old world for sure 😁 and the future will be exciting times but we were all supposed to be buzzing around in flying cars like those featured in the TV program, the Jetsons, what went wrong there. There has been many attempts at making flying cars an affordable and everyday thing and all have failed so far, like the everlasting lightbulb.

 

Second-hand car dealers are reported to be avoiding used EVs like the plague because they could well turn out to be either a used car bargain or a financial disaster with many going through the auction houses with approx 24,000 miles on the clock and the depreciation on them working out at £2 a mile, a car that cost £60,000 new, after 24,000 miles is selling for around £12,000, whereas they are reporting that ICE car prices are actually on the increase.

 

@Winston_Woof  Nail of the head, those silly old bu663rs that get free bus passes and even Winter Fuel Payment and a £10 Christmas Bonus even if they live abroad all winter or go on a world cruise should buy an old Skoda if the loss of £300 bothers them.

But maybe having old cars over the years is why they can afford a nice retirement or keep on working and getting Triple Lock benefits.

 

Well times change and we will see who had a war on motorists was is Labour Mayors or was it the Tory Party?

 

@Graham Butcher Sensible to avoid 2nd hand EV,s like the plague if you can not resell and make a profit, enough to even pay your taxes on a profit. 

But then the New BEV,s have to get First Registered, so they will be going on the road.

 

A glut of cheap used EV,s.   Bargains, and who is hit in the pocket.  Pension Funds, those that worked hard all their lives and the Investment / Bankers rob them blind.

Financing new and used cars and the market crashes.   Maybe just give these cars away to the needy instead of a Bus Pass. 

Funny old world.

?

Where do you get your news articles, it seems to be from a certain type of news provider? 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

19 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher  i seem to have missed where it has been a total failure. 

I am sure you will not be mistaken, sometimes you are right, not so sure if more than not though. 

 

EDIT.

TESLA failed at it.  Not seeing where those that build the cars and have the batteries have failed.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure I saw a video a few weeks ago that claimed that while the idea was a good one it did really hinge on all the makers agreeing on a standard battery and that carmakers were not likely to do that as their cars all use different batteries already and that would make all their cars sold to date almost obsolete and worthless. 

 

I did say that when they started talking about going full electric, that it would truly be an advantage if all cars used the same battery packs and that service stations could also cater for the fast and efficient battery swaps so that they could be used in much the same fashion as ICE cars. The problem then being the service station's ability to ensure a plentiful stock of charged batteries and also the ability of charging the replaced ones quickly enough to assist in making sure that they don't run out of stock. That also preposes that there is sufficient grid supply for that to happen, which we already know is not the case in England, and in some parts of Scotland I suspect the same is true.

 

But back to the idea of that has been tried and failed, I'm not sure of where that was, but I'll try and find the video again if I have time.

 

On the topic of standardising  on the same battery type and dimensions etc, I remember whilst I was working for Crabtree Electrical that there was group of makers who were looking to standardise on certain products so that they could make things like MCB's all the same so that they would fit each others consumer units etc and that was all ended up going nowhere as they could agree on a suitable format, so expect the carmakers to have exactly same issues and outcome.

20 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Where do you get your news articles, it seems to be from a certain type of news provider? 

Much the same place as you do but tend to avoid the more obvious choices who have a dedicated narrative to push such as the fully charged mob etc in order to continue being funded.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

 

 

Well thats odd, the video is clearly using clickbait to get people to watch it, the headline 1,101.2 miles on a single charge, and it does not reference that in the video either, what it does state however is that it has a nominal range of just 350 miles?

All Social Media videos are clickbait, as are the news stories that you or i read unless we actually pay cash money for a paper or news access. 

 

The thing is that some people seem to forget that nearly everyone is selling something they have or that they advertise for others.

Some seem to take a lot of the guff seriously and not with a pinch of salt.

 

When a mega millionaire from either selling or buying and selling cars comes on here and tells us how they predict things will be then we just have to read and watch stuff from people that put it out there. 

 

People someplace are always coming out ok of all these things that go bust and fail.

@Graham Butcher  you are always suspecting what happens elsewhere.

Maybe best concentrate in where you know and not guessing or suspecting. 

44 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

All Social Media videos are clickbait, as are the news stories that you or i read unless we actually pay cash money for a paper or news access. 

 

The thing is that some people seem to forget that nearly everyone is selling something they have or that they advertise for others.

Some seem to take a lot of the guff seriously and not with a pinch of salt.

 

When a mega millionaire from either selling or buying and selling cars comes on here and tells us how they predict things will be then we just have to read and watch stuff from people that put it out there. 

 

People someplace are always coming out ok of all these things that go bust and fail.

All true, but why is that people always take the trouble of calling out anything on social media as clickbait but going your comment above its not if you actually pay money for a paper or news access, its exactly the same thing, they want you and me to pay for the access to get just the same thing as you get from carefully selected social media for nought. They ALL use clickbait to draw you in but that clickbait on that American bus video was way OTT.

50 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher  you are always suspecting what happens elsewhere.

Maybe best concentrate in where you know and not guessing or suspecting. 

A bit of pot calling kettle black?

Often,

Thine eyes are blind thou can not see you have not brought your specs with thee.

 

@Graham Butcher have tried an EV yet, to go anywhere, tried charging one. 

Personally i like to try and find out personally about stuff where i can and not just sook in stuff that others have ideas on but have no experience of. 

 

As far as electric cars, vans, or any other means of transport we are where we are and as much as the news changes lots and the markets, things have moved on actually just in the time since this thread or section started.

 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

3 hours ago, Ootohere said:

 

 

At 2.8 tons that battery is going to help make that truck unstable to drive as its weight is quite a bit higher than where the normal diesel engine along with the weight of the diesel in the fuel tanks would 

be thus making it more top-heavy before the trailer is even hooked up and loaded. It makes more sense in the big American truck that Robert Llewellyn is talking about in his Fully Charged video, but I would have expected a better standard of journalism from him when he speaks about that 16 Litre diesel and that we have been using that technology to move goods about for the last 120 years 🙄.

 

Truth is that the very diesel powered truck was made by Mercedes-Benz in 1923 and they only started to gain real traction about 10 years after that, so there is a big difference between what he claims and the real truth so take what he says with a pinch of salt.

^^^ Tell them.   I am sure they never thought about that.   Some Australian Authority must have approved them to be on the road.

They are doing it and you are using your knowledge and thinking about it. 

 

The 16 litre diesel vehicles fuel consumption and cost to run was pretty well explained and there is a need to reduce emissions, 

or is that not actually what this is about?

 

...........

On the other vid, 

The guy explained why the need for conversions because of the production pace of new vehicles.

 

For the UK they will just have to stick with what is available on the market and once proven to work if they do.

They are working in much bigger countries with more miles to cover.

Horses for courses, like the Electric Busses, they were seemingly not up to the needs of Election Battle Busses for political parties. 

 

 

This yard near Kirriemuir is less than 2 miles from a new Solar Farm @ Padanram and a few miles from the Route of the new Power Lines and Super Pylons going from Kintore Substation to Tealing Substation and a few others feeding in the electricity from Wind Turbines and solar and Hydro, and also to and from Battery Storage Farms.

 

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

16 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Often,

Thine eyes are blind thou can not see you have not brought your specs with thee.

 

@Graham Butcher have tried an EV yet, to go anywhere, tried charging one. 

Personally i like to try and find out personally about stuff where i can and not just sook in stuff that others have ideas on but have no experience of. 

 

As far as electric cars, vans, or any other means of transport we are where we are and as much as the news changes lots and the markets, things have moved on actually just in the time since this thread or section started.

 

You already know the answer to that, NO I have not, and I already know that I would 100% love the way that they drive, I have made no secret about that either but the points I'm raising are not about personal experiences and preferences, it is about the very real possibility that in a few years time we will have sleepwalked in real mess of our politicians making that could be even worse than the continued fossil fuel burning.

 

Now if electric was just a another option for the public to make, and they chose to shun petrol and diesel in favour of electric, then it would have been the consumer's own fault. Whereas, we do actually know how we can reduce and restrict the amount of bad gasses we put into the environment using the technology we already have and have been reducing that amount quite rapidly over the last few years and that trend is/would be set to continue, and I have said how politicians can speed up that process already going forwards. 

 

By having all the current technologies in use with continued development there would become a clear leader in due course that everyone could get behind and support, and that could be petrol, diesel, synthetic fuels, hydrogen, electric or something else.

 

Think about it for a while, what if all the governments all declared a ban of petrol years ago and made diesel mandatory, just how bad a state would the world be in right now, armed with all the knowledge we have today about how harmful diesel fuel is over petrol for example? Petrol was a major killer years ago with its carbon monoxide, which saw loads of suicides from it alone, that has all gone these days thanks to catalytic convertors being fitted, and the same sort of result could have come about with the removal of PM2.5 and PM10 particles with more research, just as there was with the catalytic convertors and CO2 scrubbers could also be developed and fitted. 

49 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

The 16 litre diesel vehicles fuel consumption and cost to run was pretty well explained and there is a need to reduce emissions, 

or is that not actually what this is about?

 

George, I never mentioned the cost to run or the need to reduce emissions, those are a automatic given, cost to run I doubt is going to change much, but emissions could be reduced with the right incentives being applied and also joined up thinking taking place, the emissions aspect I have already mentioned. The point I was making was that he was so keen to across the argument for electric that he could not be bothered to do basic research in order to find out how long we have been using diesel to power trucks. It also serves as an illustration that channels that are pro one sort of propulsion or another will always be biased towards their beliefs.

 

That is why I tend to steer clear of channels which have nailed their colours to the mast because they cannot see truth even if it hits them between the eyes. I prefer channels that are not trying to steer you down a pathway as they, like me, have an open mind and like to look before I make the leap of faith over the fence. The other kind of channel I like is one where a person is sharing their own personal experiences, which can also go either way, but it is their true experiences that can count.  

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

 

Now, this particular truck, IMO has it right, the batteries are where the fuel tanks would be so the centre of gravity is still going to very low down and thus more stable to drive and like I have said before, this truck might well be ideal for their type of business running between fixed and regular bases where they could have charging facilities for it especially overnight, but that scenario is not what the vast amount of truckers and companies experience. So its not a one-stop shop that suits all. 

 

That being said though, imagine his shock that last year when the video was made, he said that he paid zero VED for the truck, thats not the case anymore and it will cost him hundreds this time around.

Edited 30 July, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

The Truth is that Jeremy Hunt MP is very upset at being called a liar as he thinks politicians should not say that about another politician.

 

Well real world they should not be such lying and cheating barstewards. 

Time will tell how much of a con anything is with the drive to Net Zero, but what is obvious is many are making money and as i said money lost is not the Financial Establishments money.

It is savers, investors and pension funds, local authorities investments of tax payers money.  

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@PetrolDave  engineers are up to the task when it comes to head for thinking and feet for dancing, so what will happen with Long Distance Basses is what will happen with HGV,s and long distance haulage.

Interesting, but I was posting about aircraft and you're posting about buses and HGVs - so we're posting about different things?