A Nissan Leaf used / leased or gifted to some part of Angus Council was in the car park abandoned during Covid for over a year.

It was so mouldy inside that it was a health hazard and it was uplifted without the door being opened & it was taken away to be dismantled.

I have seen ones that were parked up during covid that must have had low batteries when parked and were uplifted by a tracked vehicle. BMW i3,s, Nissan Leafs and Renault Kangoos. ANGUS COUNCIL.

Edited 20 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

How long can an BEV be left without being charged before the battery suffers irreversible long term damage, and just how long can a charged BEV actually sit doing nothing, before the battery runs flat?

Depends on the vehicle and what SoC it has been left at.

But like a phone left turned off in the drawer at storage SoC, it will last a few years before needing to be charged back up to prevent damage.

If it is like Leaf architecture, directly replace ICE with battery and motor, it should last many years. There will only be very gradual self-discharge. Nissan does not have recommendation to keep car plugged in when in storage.

If it’s like Tesla, where the HV battery is waken up periodically to phone home, it would drain down to 20% in a few months if left at mid SoC. Then a year or so for HV battery to self discharge, but a lot less for LV battery to get drained. This is why Tesla manual recommends keeping the car plugged in with a low charge limit set.

Of course, mould and other common problems for cars left for long time outside would more likely write off vehicles.

On 16/04/2025 at 11:02, wyx087 said:

Does the use of Betamax / VHS / DVD produce massive amount of greenhouse gas (CO2) that is causing lasting damage to the climate?

CO2 does NOT cause damage to the climate.

@EnterName Will be right. (Right Wing.)

It is a Leftie Woke Internet myth about Carbon Dioxide.

It obviously falls off the edge of the flat earth so can not be above the earth.

Edited 21 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

5 hours ago, EnterName said:

CO2 does NOT cause damage to the climate.

Indeed, one CO2 molecule does not damage the climate. You are totally right.

The effect of having more of it causes climate to change, which is damaging to us.

If you want to be left alone and live as close as possible to the status quo, then you will need to make minor adjustments so that you have less impact on the climate.

Edited 21 April, 20251 yr by wyx087

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

MYGUY really is so worried for the West's National Security and not those in the East. He is in the East.

Odd that he has no concerns for people in China from ELON MUSK / Donald Trump.

Mobile phone / internet devices even when the user turns them off can be tracked by smart people.

Israel more of a worry than China maybe. Risky for some to charge an EV and use the Israel based / owned company processing payments & knowing your location. Taken out by a drone, or maybe a drive bye bye shooting @ a Trump Turnberry Golf Course etc.

VW,s & TESLA are a security risk as far as tracking etc. ICE VW,s not just BEV,s / Electrified ones.

Then as far as a transportable bomb, cam BEV,s not be set up to go into Thermal Runaway remotely?

Even moved remotely to cause the most damage.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed, one CO2 molecule does not damage the climate. You are totally right.

The effect of having more of it causes climate to change, which is damaging to us.

If you want to be left alone and live as close as possible to the status quo, then you will need to make minor adjustments so that you have less impact on the climate.

Spend an summer afternoon in a greenhouse, or pip over to Venus, 90 atmospheres of pressure, 400 C. What happen with gree house gas co2.

Of course co2 is harmful in excess, being heavier than normal air is handy for fires like on board ships when you can seal a hold and flood co2 into it, it cuts off the oxygen so essential for normal fires. in such situations it is impossible to survive in a flooded hold without breathing apparatus, equally it is also ineffective with Lithium-ion battery fires because they produce their own oxygen and can still burn perfectly well in such situations.

It would also help not to go around the globe chopping down huge, great forests which actually eat vast amounts of co2 and turn it into the other essential gas we all need oxygen. Yes we also need wood for all kinds of things, but we (humans)are not replacing forests at a fast enough rate, it will take many years before a newly planted forest will digest anywhere near the amount of co2 that a well established forest does.

More and more farms around Scotland are growing crops just to produce gas to generate electricity.

Also growing for Bio-mass.

Several near to me.

Pays more than growing food for humans or animals.

Not just a South American thing.

Edited 21 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

German ADAC (similar to AA/RAC) has published stats about EV vs ICE vehicle breakdowns, broken down by vehicle year. So the data is comparable and really old vehicles wouldn't skew results.

ADAC Pannenstatistik 2025: Sind...

ADAC Pannenstatistik 2025: Sind Elektroautos zuverlässiger?

Die Bilanz der ADAC Pannenhilfe zeigt, welche Pkw am häufigsten liegen bleiben. Elektroautos erscheinen zunehmend solider als Verbrenner.

Auto translation:

Comparison: E-car against combustion engines

Are electric vehicles puncture-prone than combustion ? This question has been asked many times in recent years. Thanks to the increased registration figures for electric vehicles, there was an answer last year for the first time: Young electric cars were less susceptible to break-out than passenger cars with petrol or diesel engines.

In the evaluation a year ago, however, the comparison was still limited to vehicles with the first registration year 2020 and 2021. This year, the first registration year 2022 was added as an observation period.

Conclusion

The current figures confirm the trend that electric cars are more reliable than burners. However, it remains exciting how the topic will develop in the next few years.

Overall, the market for e-vehicles is currently very dynamic. The range of models is growing and has become much more heterogeneous. On the one hand, childhood diseases – with the new technology for most manufacturers – are still to be expected for electric cars. On the other hand, the learning curve is currently very steep, so that further improvements in the electric vehicles are conceivable and expected.

Speaking of AA, I spoke to them at Everything Electric London a few days ago. They have developed a hub extender that allows the wheel to rotate freely. So any vehicle can be towed with its wheels on the ground whilst internal gearbox is still in P.

23 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@EnterName Will be right. (Right Wing.)

It is a Leftie Woke Internet myth about Carbon Dioxide.

It obviously falls off the edge of the flat earth so can not be above the earth.

18 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed, one CO2 molecule does not damage the climate. You are totally right.

The effect of having more of it causes climate to change, which is damaging to us.

If you want to be left alone and live as close as possible to the status quo, then you will need to make minor adjustments so that you have less impact on the climate.

I'm old enough to remember when the left were assuring us that there would be no ice in the Arctic by <date+just enough time for tax increases to save the planet>.

Similarly, sea-levels were going to rise to unmanageable levels by <date+just enough time for tax increases to save the planet>.

Now it's CO2 that is going to somehow destroy life on earth by <date+just enough time for tax increases to save the planet>.

Are we not worried about ice in the Arctic any more?

Are we not worried about sea levels any more?

I've already gone through the CO2 figures with you lot, and all that happened was George went suspiciously quiet on the subject, and Wyx changed tack and let slip that the whole thing is about wealth redistribution. The CO2 crisis is a red herring.

And that's before you open the can of worms that is political donors making fortunes out of the "Green" industry. (Of all flavours, this isn't just a Labour Party problem.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/06/green-energy-tycoon-dale-vince-labour-election-donations-5m/

@EnterName Very likely i never read what you went through with me,

or ignored it as like much you write it will have been guff.

?

What thread was that in and when?

If i go quiet on a subject or something you post it will be because i can not be bothered with a nut job.

Co2 is not an issue for those with their head up their own arse.

..............

We might look see and worry about the same things as in the past as predictions seem to have been correct.

Your 'We' that are seemingly not bothered by anything are special cases.

Trumpian types.

Edited 22 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Re UK Politics & Party donations.

If people open their eyes then they might see. The blinkered people need to open their mind and use the brain they were born with.

See what is out at sea & comes from under the sea etc.

Chinese battery giant have battery which produces charging times to "fill up" similar to filling a Hydrocarbon fuel tank..

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

I've already gone through the CO2 figures with you lot, and all that happened was George went suspiciously quiet on the subject, and Wyx changed tack and let slip that the whole thing is about wealth redistribution. The CO2 crisis is a red herring.

I've already created a thread for climate change discussions:

The truth about EV is that the tech is advancing and all the problems that anti-EV peeps used to swear by are disappearing one by one.

17 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes we also need wood for all kinds of things, but we (humans)are not replacing forests at a fast enough rate, it will take many years before a newly planted forest will digest anywhere near the amount of co2 that a well established forest does.

It is useful to note, however, that newly planted trees absorb CO2 at a faster rate than older more mature trees.

Could the belief about CO2 and climate debate be moved to an appropriate thread and keep this to the "Truth" about Electric cars?

9 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Co2 is not an issue for those with their head up their own arse.

That'd be Methane, would'n it, Lol.

1 hour ago, Tilt said:

That'd be Methane, would'n it, Lol.

If it was co2 the flame would go out rather than the flame ignite the gas !!

Not just about BEV,s, more to do with being realistic. Or waking up and seeing the light, or the dark.

The weather change is not enough to have more walking or cycling and public transport gets worse for provision and cost.

Yet another Wind Farm could or possibly could provide electricity for half Scotland's homes.

That will be possible buy now with all the onshore and off be about 10 times the amount of homes could be using renewables in Scotland if the wind blows, the hydro generates,the sun shines and the power grid could cope.

Still the electricity is damn expensive.

(There is still a nuclear reactor that can supply 75% of Scotland,s homes, but very obviously does not as that electricity goes south, maybe even to overseas countries. )

Edited 24 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Interesting

Thats what was bound to happen. Loads and loads of punted out lease / fleet / Motability EV,s.

So if really they were dead cheap for private cash buyers to go get then fantastic.

It is your Pension Providers / Banks that are taking the hit, so everybody really.

PS.

Interest Free Loans in Scotland to buy used EV,s is a help with the use of PUBLIC MONEY.

What a pity those administering the scheme could not act quick so that people could get a loan accepted and actually buy the car from a dealer / dealership that they wanted.

Loans to buy dead cheap EV,s are really just a no no, unless the Motor Trade in the UK really wanted that.

Maybe the Governments / Councils should be buying USED CARS with a warranty CHEAPLY for Staff / Employee use and not all the New ones they are leasing.

Edited 24 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

On 22/04/2025 at 10:39, lol-lol said:

Chinese battery giant have battery which produces charging times to "fill up" similar to filling a Hydrocarbon fuel tank..

On 22/04/2025 at 10:39, lol-lol said:

Except of course that they are not here and I really cannot even see when if ever they will ever will arrive. Do you know anywhere that the grid is capable of supplying sufficient energy to allow any charging station / hub to actually deliver anywhere near that amount of power, which is going to be in excess of 1.3 megawatt per charger. No battery charger is 100% efficient so that power loss has to be added to each charger. Imagine a station with 10 chargers capable of charging at those speeds would be drawing if all used at the same around 14 to 15 megawatts, that amount of energy would supply between 14,000 to 30,000 homes depending on the amount of power they were using.

You cannot get something for nothing, the cost of producing enough power in the first place to enable that speed of charging for lots of cars would be out of this world, without the massive upgrading of the grid to transport that amount of power without overloading the cables, transformers and switchgear would be equally cost prohibitive and extremely time-consuming.

Then you have to add in the all the BMS's in cars need to be designed to handle a massive increase in their power handling capabilities, another massive expense, plus all the upgraded cables to carry that power, will add cost, weight and the extra size of the parts would need to have larger cars to house all the controls etc.

Its a great thought and would certainly begin to rival ICE cars in refuelling times, but when you stop and think about it, totally impractical in practise.

Edited 24 April, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Except of course that they are not here and I really cannot even see when if ever they will ever will arrive. Do you anywhere that the grid is capable of supplying sufficient energy to allow any charging station / hub to actually deliver anywhere near that amount of power, which is going to be in excess of 1.3 megawatt per charger. No battery charger is 100% efficient so that power loss has to be added to each charger. Imaging a station with 10 chargers capable of charging at those speeds would be drawing if all used at the same around 14 to 15 megawatts, that amount of energy would supply between 14,000 to 30,000 homes depending on the amount of power they were using.

You cannot get something for nothing, the cost of producing enough power in the first place to enable that speed of charging for lots of cars would be out of this world, without the massive upgrading of the grid to transport that amount of power without overloading the cables, transformers and switchgear would be equally cost prohibitive and extremely time-consuming.

Then you have to add in the all the BMS's in cars need to be designed to handle a massive increase in their power handling capabilities, another massive expense, plus all the upgraded cables to carry that power, will add cost, weight and the extra size of the parts would need to have larger cars to house all the controls etc.

Its a great thought and would certainly begin to rival ICE cars in refuelling times, but when you stop and think about it, totally impractical in practise.

How about solve your problem with....... more batteries! ;)

Stationary battery can be used as buffers to power dump into EV's.

Many sites are already doing this right now. Stationary battery massively reduces cost of grid connection and allows faster roll out of rapid charging hubs without waiting for site upgrade.

I seem to remember you are in favour of battery swap stations. It's the same principle. Both require more battery to be manufacturered than vehicle, both doesn't require huge grid connections and both would not be able to deliver the speed if turn over rate exceeds buffer charging capability.

Finally, BMS in cars does not need to handle the power. Battery Management System does not go anywhere near the power cables. BMS only manages the battery. To allow this kind of power delivery, it is the battery cells that need to be able to accept high C rating. Then it's a simple matter of updating the charging curve parameters in the BMS.

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Except of course that they are not here and I really cannot even see when if ever they will ever will arrive. Do you know anywhere that the grid is capable of supplying sufficient energy to allow any charging station / hub to actually deliver anywhere near that amount of power, which is going to be in excess of 1.3 megawatt per charger. No battery charger is 100% efficient so that power loss has to be added to each charger. Imagine a station with 10 chargers capable of charging at those speeds would be drawing if all used at the same around 14 to 15 megawatts, that amount of energy would supply between 14,000 to 30,000 homes depending on the amount of power they were using.

You cannot get something for nothing, the cost of producing enough power in the first place to enable that speed of charging for lots of cars would be out of this world, without the massive upgrading of the grid to transport that amount of power without overloading the cables, transformers and switchgear would be equally cost prohibitive and extremely time-consuming.

Then you have to add in the all the BMS's in cars need to be designed to handle a massive increase in their power handling capabilities, another massive expense, plus all the upgraded cables to carry that power, will add cost, weight and the extra size of the parts would need to have larger cars to house all the controls etc.

Its a great thought and would certainly begin to rival ICE cars in refuelling times, but when you stop and think about it, totally impractical in practise.

BYD cars are available from UK dealers such as Bristol Street Motors of which there is a dealer about a mile from my house.

Of course RHD BYDs only follow along after BYD, or most other car manufacturers, have made a substantial batch of LHD models first.

Gridserve is already setting up 1 MW charging for trucks and when they see that some cars want this level of charging too then they will be all too happy to make money from it. The oft have BESS and lots of solar at the sites.

@lol-lol still can't see it myself, it's alright setting up the odd truck charger here or there, but more would be a massive headache for some time to come.