12 minutes ago, Aspman said:

the data centres will have been fine, it's the network connectivity between them and the ATMs that will have gone down.
Cellular base stations only have hours of capacity.
The DLAMs in the street have a few hours maybe. But if the ATM relies on a local router it will have gone down.

That might be why the ATMs in the videos were powered but showing error messages and would explain why some places were only taking cash, as they clearly decided to keep cash alongside digital money, but we're not able to accept digital. Many shops also closed completely. So much for putting all your eggs into the digital basket.

When did you last see a mechanical till other than maybe in some Retro Shop / theme bar?

A manual Credit card imprinter?

8 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

When did you last see a mechanical till other than maybe in some Retro Shop / theme bar?

A manual Credit card imprinter?

If they were able to power ATMs and other items then they could power tills, but not process digital transactions.

Who, where, are you talking banks or shops.

There are alarms that might be on back up battery systems, and locks that might not be.

There are systems that are counting on mobile phone systems / SIMs.

There were black outs, people stuck places?

Where people could use stuff and do stuff they might well have been doing it.

Going digital happened a long time ago.

Towns in the UK have been without any electricity quite a lots during recent storms.

Up in Scotland maybe the ones the longest without power.

Lets see just how The City of London copes when the Cyber attacks happen.

Today Harrods have been attacked.

@Graham Butcher You are in a Truth about Electric Vehicle thread.

Truth is many or nearly all Public Chargers require a Mobile Reception for authorisations or payment.

That is an issue with power cuts, as is powering ones. Even if there is Battery storage.

Edited 1 May, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere I'm aware of the thread name, hence why I was posting in it and it seems to have escaped most people the connection I was making to online authentication of account cards and or debit/credit cards not just in shops, cafes etc but also with public chargers which for those not fortunate enough to have home charging (assuming they had power) but those that had enough SOC to make it into work, may not have enough to get home again etc. but hey ho.

Edited 1 May, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

Those with electricity in their vehicle will just have to make it last if they can not get charged.

They might be well and truly stuffed.

Just like those with liquid fuel in their vehicle, maybe full. maybe not. They might have many km,s worth, or not.

If the Filling station is not pumping fuel with their own energy supply, or hand pumps then them taking cash money is no hep.

Those with petrols or diesels might not have enough fuel to get home... The Truth of ICE Vehicles.

On 20/04/2025 at 06:19, Ootohere said:

@domhnall Could you explain please what 'the car supported by Octopus' actually means or intails'?

EDIT.

Got it, use of an app and car plugged in.

House getting cheap tariff at same time as car. Not just fixed times, but fixed offpeak times still apply.

you can either have a charger that octopus controls or a car that octopus controls. Octopus doesn't have an approved method of controlling Skodas so whenever skoda changes something on their side it can break the integration , whereas the charger integrations never break

On 20/04/2025 at 06:19, Ootohere said:

@domhnall Could you explain please what 'the car supported by Octopus' actually means or intails'?

EDIT.

Got it, use of an app and car plugged in.

House getting cheap tariff at same time as car. Not just fixed times, but fixed offpeak times still apply.

you can either have a charger that octopus controls or a car that octopus controls. Octopus doesn't have an approved method of controlling Skodas so whenever skoda changes something on their side it can break the integration , whereas the charger integrations never break

On 30/04/2025 at 16:53, wyx087 said:

Experts must know what they are talking about,

I've met my fair share of so called 'experts' in my lifetime ........... different backgrounds and the like.

Not really impressed with most of them.

The Gp's for instance that when I went to them with a dog bite, gave me antibiotics (flucloxacillin) that are known to be ineffective against dog bite bacteria.

Ending up with me in hospital for 11 days with a bone infection and a total of 7 weeks on antibiotics of three different types.

The hospital staff were amazed (gobsmacked a better word) at what had happened with the doctors mess up.

Yet there were the Non Microbial staff at the hospital, mostly the physio's, that were saying Flucloxacillin was ok.

The Head of Microbiology that covered both the Queens Med and Nottm City hospital (her name was Tara) assured me that they were all WRONG.

Any future need for Antibiotics for myself does not look good.

Another one, a (supposedly) qualified sparky contractor at our workplace trying to tell me that a water heater could be installed using a 3 pin plug ......... and a 3 amp fuse.......... he even got his calculator on his phone to show me his calculations......

I do think he had been smoking a bit too much stuff that day tho to be fair.

The amount of people that I have come across that think they know what they are talking about is astounding.

If I comment on something then I would have either checked my facts before commenting, or at least start the comment / conversation with the words 'I think'......... but certainly make it clear that it is not fact.......... Or just keep my mouth shut and ears open.

Sadly most people seem unable to do this nowadays, its all Me, Me, Me..........

It was commented the other day that general intelligence is going down and with Ai becoming more mainstream, it is expected to go down further.

And on top of that we have to endure people like Clown Fart and Poo-tin messing the world up.

God help us, I say..........

Edited 1 May, 20251 yr by Tilt

10 minutes ago, Tilt said:

If I comment on something then I would have either checked my facts before commenting, or at least start the comment / conversation with the words 'I think'......... but certainly make it clear that it is not fact.......... Or just keep my mouth shut and ears open.

Sadly most people seem unable to do this nowadays, its all Me, Me, Me..........

Totally! Unfortunately this art of differentiating between fact checked information and third hand social media stipulation seems to be lost on armchair expert in this thread.

Of course "experts" come in different flavours and levels, it's always best to get multiple articles from different spectrum of sources before forming one's own opinion. Again, the armchair expert seems to think single social media source is sufficient "expert".

Not only general intelligence is going down. AI slurp may also spread incorrect information and the most people don't even bother verify it!

17 minutes ago, Tilt said:

God help us, I say..........

Amen.

Unfortunately, so many of these armchair experts automatically think that the actual experts are always right, which of course they are not, as @Tilt has already pointed out.

Many businesses do not need or have all the interconnectivity except to take card payments, which must have live connections to various banks to determine a person's ability to actually pay the bill. It is and remains a fact many shops and small businesses still retain the ability to take cash and for that purpose a simple standalone cash register suffices and a quick look on Amazon will reveal 20 pages of the things, so why all the silly comments to the post I made mentioning cash.

Some retail businesses still go around their shelves with pricing label machines, printing and sticking labels on their items for sale and the cashiers just punch the numbers into a simple cash register and then giving customers the option of using cash or card and then simply telling the register which method was used by the customer. Others like cafés, pubs etc have a limited range of products and so can and indeed many do, have their own dedicated buttons on the till, which the owner programs them with the prices and the register adds up the items and displays the result, so again no need to have online connection, just enough power to run whatever they need to keep operating, which come from solar or wind with maybe battery backup, or even as I have seen first hand, just a small ICE generator or battery backed inverters, which again Amazon has oodles of the things and also standalone chip and pin readers which need to be online can also be purchased from Amazon.

So now perhaps, the other armchair experts, (I did check my facts before posting the original post), will draw a line in the sand and let the thread get back to its core topic of the Truth about electric cars?

Things looking good for used sales of EVs

7 hours ago, Luckypants said:

Things looking good for used sales of EVs

The market is getting bigger with more people looking to get into EV's. They, as dealer with limited resources, can't keep up. But at the same time there's more and more supply of second hand EV's. So AT's "market health" metric is down.

From buyer perspective, it's great.

Not so great from private owner perspective.

Car sales down in general.

Petrol less than 49 % now, diesel a tiny 5% of total.

Pure electric 20.4%, PHEV up big at 11.7% now there are PHEV that can do 80 miles on battery.

HEV's at about 14%.

There are bound to be some mega EV deals in Q3 and Q4 and cheap finance. Resistance to sell ICE vehicles even more so likely.

Edited 9 May, 20251 yr by lol-lol

So ICE with a bit of a battery up 34.1 %. The majority will probably never be plugged in

https://insideevs.com/news/731090/plug-in-hybrid-charging-data/

Edited 9 May, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

So ICE with a bit of a battery up 34.1 %. The majority will probably never be plugged in

https://insideevs.com/news/731090/plug-in-hybrid-charging-data/

Thousands of pounds of extra cost, maybe Expensive Car Suplementary VED to hit drivers next year.

If one has an 80 mile battery range and a sub 80 mile drive to work there could be big savings on fuel costs if one can charge at home or work at low or zero cost.

My lads hybrid Clio only cost £22k and can easily do 70 mpg plus in warm weather.

Full BEV so cheap to run but initial or monthly cost quite high. Cheap servicing compared to ICE, PHEV and HEVs I find.

3 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

So ICE with a bit of a battery up 34.1 %. The majority will probably never be plugged in

https://insideevs.com/news/731090/plug-in-hybrid-charging-data/

Some off these PHEVs will be bought because they are good tax dodges and the driver may also have a fuel card so working out the saving on actually taking couple minutes to plug in and couple minutes to unplug the driver will think " cannot be arsed".

Edited 9 May, 20251 yr by lol-lol

Another thing with some PHEVs is the driver can configure the car that the battery and electric motor are not setup to help fuel consumption but to just boost performance, acceleration etc.

I know some PHEV company cars drivers who are barely getting 30 mpg and drive their company car like and F1 car.

Some companies and government departments would get mpg figures and ask drivers, especially those with company fuel cards, can get questions as to why their mpg is so bad.

As we know some cars are near impossible to get near their published mpg. Maybe only 70% even being careful.

Plenty chargers about around where he is going,

but @ 79 pence a kWh you are £7.90 to go maybe 35-40 miles..

Lovely when you are getting for 60 pence or under, then you are @ the £6.10 or so you would be for a gallon on petrol. Maybe more for the diesel that will maybe take you further for £6.50 or so a gallon.

Edited 10 May, 20251 yr by Ootohere

CoMoUK shows that the cost of running and maintaining a car club EV is now around £6,000 per year higher than a typical petrol car in the same fleet.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/affordability-of-electric-vehicles-behind-car-club-fleet-decline

Long story short.

They have to pay charging costs like a Private Owner with no home charging might.

But,

they are not just counting in the Tariff for public charging, they are including the Land and the Charger.

Rented /leased or owned.

...............

If i want Milk i go buy milk at a shop / dairy / supermarket.

I do not own a cow or land to keep a cow on or milking machines or even a pail.

Same if i own or lease a EV and do not have home charging, i do not buy a charger & charging bay.

................

The 20-80% charging guff yet again. AC charging, fill your boots if you want, lease / fleet car or even your own if you want, get the electric in when cheap / cheaper.

Car Clubs not running like Fleet or Commercial Drivers.

Benefit in Kind. 20% claim back on VAT for some. Work Place charging. Salary Sacrifice.

They are Car Club Running Costs, & there are University, Council Car Clubs etc.

Their own grounds / parking, renewable energy maybe, wind, solar, battery storage. They are Running EV,s.

Drip feeding the 20-80% and people sook it in!

Edited 10 May, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Bedford were experimenting with electric traction way back in 1982 and the UK Government made grants available for them and they were the main, if not the only customer for them. Just listen to the many problems with them back then, but full marks to them for being pioneers.

They were trying. ^^^ He is very trying, very easily amused by himself.

Volvo EX30 vs MINI Countryman vs Hyundai Kona vs Kia Niro

More and more choices coming quarter by quarter.

Bigger batteries in not that much bigger cars. Still just not that great efficiency and just longer ranges because the big battery.