@Graham Butcher You win. Never in your lifetime will they catch on. No use, like logging lorries and other HGV,s.. Obviously not the same weight or design or power from a van. Expected delivery every 6 minutes or less. Amazon deliveries can be many on the same road and there day is far longer than a Refuse lorries for many towns or cities. Electric Double decker busses will never catch on, all that stop start between bus stops. .................. Green Councils have 4 or 5 types of refuse collections. So General Waste, Paper / Cardboard, Recycling, Food waste, Garden waste and glass. In Angus you have to take glass to public bins / skips. Youi pay for gardenm waste collection. Food waste are smaller vehicles. So really it is about working hours and distance to refuse tips or yards and vehicle fleet and charging. Dundee City different from Angus, or Perth and Kinross or Fife.

Edited 27 April27 Apr by Evolution13

@Graham Butcher Have you not seen Courier / Delivery vehicles dropping off at properties and Drop Shops and also collecting from locations on there route? As much as there are many reasons for Horses for Courses and that might be ICE vehicles, times are having to change and Luddites just need to realise it.

Edited 27 April27 Apr by Evolution13

@Evolution13 Yes, of course I've seen those electric vans making regular drop-offs by companies like Amazon, etc., and I don't understand why it is that everyone is so wound up by the fact that currently I'm not also as besotted by the electric revolution. It is so evident that some people will be like yourself, Lol-Lol etc. and are very passionate about electric transport, and there will always be the "early adopters" in any new emerging technologies.

As I have repeatedly said, I'm not anti-EV at all; I have always said that they currently do have their advantages and they also have disadvantages for many more users. However, I really do believe that the technology is still way too young to be having governments mandating its adoption globally and banning ICE power. It's about freedom of choice. And once the tipping point is reached where the public can see that there are no disadvantages, only advantages for everyone, and the price of them and the running costs, etc., are favourable, there will be a natural consumer-led movement to electric, and ICE will be left and will eventually be virtually nonexistent.

There is still so much about them that we need to learn and develop to the point that anyone can switch to electric and they become no more restrictive in any sense of the word to any current ICE vehicle, regardless of its type, bike, car, van, bus, heavy goods truck, etc., and that also goes for their known hazards and other pitfalls that many seem to gloss over.

Harry makes some very good points in this video, although it is 2 years old, the salient points he raises are still very much with us and so many more that he does not mention.

This video also makes some sense; it shows that regulation gets it wrong but does agree that emissions still need to be addressed, and rightly so. Again which I have said that research was continuing at a pace to make engines more efficent and at the same time reduce the emmissions.

Edited 27 April27 Apr by Graham Butcher

Ouch, sounds like a very expensive repair.

The Disunited in such a state of Mericans is big, very oil rich and with many that like big vehicles & have still a recent history of vehicle manufacturers and engine builders . So unlike England that is not huge and not oil rich, and is in fact oil and resources poor. Also renewable and nuclear poor because of years thinking about things. Norway is oil rich and not unaware of the issue with fossil fuels and climate change. Mericans have flown to the moon and mars and now around the moon and yet could not sort out pollution reduction in vehicles and make them reliable for 500,000 miles.

I’m not anti EV, I run a 75 plate Superb 2.0 TDI by choice. Many of the journeys I do would be close to the maximum of an EV, I don’t have Solar or heat pumps and my home is a recent build 2017.

However the pain that could be involved queuing for a public charger and the lack of many local to me has kept me on an oil burner.

If/when the UK mandates EV only, how is the country going to produce enough electricity on a cold winter, minimal from solar, no Wind, no help there, to keep the homes of everyone warn and dry as well as charge all the Vehicles and batteries overnight.

Don’t forget that they are also trying to phase out gas heating and cooking. Of course things over time will get resolved.

The most cost efficient method runs around continuing to extract from the North Sea, develop better wind solar and ground heat options. Invest in the Small nuclear reactors for each major city and industrial areas of the country before reducing the options left open to the general public.

In our older towns and cities with narrow streets and insufficient parking, how are people going to charge EV’s?

In around 15 years, the future will be much improved (only if the Government spend OUR money wisely of course) Then pushing the higher polluting vehicles off the road makes sense.

We have the other issue of weight of vehicles and corresponding increase of damage to our roads. Local councils don’t have the monies to pay for the ever reducing time between major repairs, they have never in recent decades managed to keep up with minor repairs either.

Goverment policy needs to be changed to prioritise what’s needed for the majority of the nation/s population. Not the current Huge amounts of spending that’s wasted, monopolising Government spending.

Will this be the end for historic vehicles in the UK?

Nobody is mandating scrapping the millions of Historic Vehicles in the UK are they? All these classics and collector vehicles and everyday running vehicle. Energy really is an issue for England & Westminster as far as generating & importing enough electricity and transmitting it to homes and business. It really is not a UK wide issue other than the National Grid being Not fit for purpose. Other issues as far as Public charging and charging at home are well known. High time the growing weight of Passenger cars and width was dealt with regardless of BEV or Ice Vehicles because there are lots of very heavy 5-7 seaters out on the roads. Extracting from the North Sea makes no difference because the UK does not own the oil that comes out, and will not be refining it, and if they were then still that products are not owned by the UK.

Edited 28 April28 Apr by Evolution13

@Trickiejohn You are correct. A quick glance on Google Earth, where most of the images are now 2026, shows the extent of people opting for solar panels on their roofs, etc., and it is a poor take-up. This is down to many factors: cost; many think they are ugly; others can't have them because they live in social housing and the local councils, HAs, etc. are concerned about the cost of maintenance of the roofs, etc., or they live in high-rise dwellings.

It is almost the same argument for the take-up of EVs. Lack of off-road parking, cost of installing a charge point, and, in some cases, upgrading the supply to the property. Some property owners will no longer allow EVs in their underground car parks or allow charging to be done in them for fear of an incident.

Some will cite LFP batteries that do not catch fire as easily as LMC ones, and while this is true, they do, however, apparently, to some experts studying these batteries, offer other equally undesirable side effects, significantly more off-gassing which creates a far greater risk of explosions, and the off-gassing is also even more deadly if exposed to it, with a far greater amount of it being fatal. Also because they do not burn as hot as LMC batteries, they burn less cleanly and thus produce more lethal fumes.

These are serious issues that governments need to tackle head-on and resolve completely before they even think about the banning of new ICE vehicles. God forbid that they should ever think about banning old existing ICE vehicles and historic ones.

EVs do have a role to play, and I'm convinced that they will become the dominant means of transportation, but before that happens, we need to address the current issues with them and the power generation, distribution and charging side of things and stop burying our heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretending that they are perfectly fine as they are and that more of us petrol heads should be switching over.

Once the consumer is convinced in their own minds that they do make more sense, then they will buy them, without the need for grants, tax cuts, etc., in the same way all other products have become standard and are in almost every household in the world, mobile phones, for example.

33 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

High time the growing weight of Passenger cars and width was dealt with regardless of BEV or Ice Vehicles because there are lots of very heavy 5-7 seaters out on the roads.

Agreed, but much of the weight gain of these cars is down to legislation about crash protection and survivability. Cars have to grow in size and weight to accommodate crumple zones, side impact beams, rigid passenger cages, etc. Granted, there are also certain cars that are bigger and heavier than they need to be, just so the owners can be different from the rest of us and draw attention to themselves or, as in the case of certain people, for their own safety, requiring armour-plated transport.

Edited 28 April28 Apr by Graham Butcher

If ICE vehicles were banned the UK really would grind to a halt, or much of it would. But ICE vehicles are not being banned, just First Registrations at some point. So maybe many of the 40 million or so vehicles or however many there are in what ever year will just have to keep on providing the vehicles for drivers wanting to use Petrol or Diesel.

11 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

If ICE vehicles were banned the UK really would grind to a halt, or much of it would. But ICE vehicles are not being banned, just First Registrations at some point. So maybe many of the 40 million or so vehicles or however many there are in what ever year will just have to keep on providing the vehicles for drivers wanting to use Petrol or Diesel.

Can you not foresee a time when those will eventually be banned so that when a car fails, the owner will not be allowed to source another old ICE vehicle but be forced into an old EV if they can't afford a new one?

I can not forsee me being here to see such a thing or you. & really could not care less as to what happens when i have gone. Still waiting to personally see a BEV on fire or burnt out at a road side.

1 hour ago, Evolution13 said:

I can not forsee me being here to see such a thing or you. & really could not care less as to what happens when i have gone. Still waiting to personally see a BEV on fire or burnt out at a road side.

While I agree with the first part of what you said, I actually do care enough to want those that follow me when I pop my clogs to be able to determine for themselves if they want to live in an all-electric future or not. That decision is not mine to make.

You know I have spent most of my working life (over 45 years) driving all over the British Isles in a variety of roles here on the mainland and all over both parts of Ireland, and I have myself only ever actually seen firsthand one car on fire, right here in Chelmsford a few years ago, and that was a VW split-screen microbus. But you know what, I'm not going to speculate what was the cause of the fire, as I simply don't know.

That said, however, I have seen a few heavy goods vehicles on fire along our motorways, and it appears the fire has always started in the rear, where the payload is. Again, I don't actually know if it was the brakes overheating or something in the cargo, so again, no speculation.

If you're anything like me, you have more than likely seen plenty of burnt-out cars, but that was at a time when joyriding was a popular craze, and they were common in fields, woods, etc. to destroy any evidence of who took the car.

One thing that I do not need to see is a BEV on fire to believe that they do pose a far greater risk to both life and limb and the environment when they catch fire. There is plenty of video footage around these days, so loads of such incidents are caught on camera, and the scientific analysis highlights the problems that they cause when they do catch fire.

News seems rather quiet on BEV fires in the UK. Still waiting after that linked article recently to hear how many of those deaths recorded in road accidents were because of BEV,s going on fire.

15 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

I can not forsee me being here to see such a thing or you. & really could not care less as to what happens when i have gone. Still waiting to personally see a BEV on fire or burnt out at a road side.

39 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

News seems rather quiet on BEV fires in the UK. Still waiting after that linked article recently to hear how many of those deaths recorded in road accidents were because of BEV,s going on fire.

Yes, it is very quiet I agree, it's quiet on all types of car fires. Is it because they think it is no longer of interest is reporting of any car fires being suppressed? Or it could just be that there is so much other news worthy events happening, war, political sleaze, and other stuff keeping them out of the news, who knows?

The Daily Mail can always find space for anything Anti EV. ............................Today Power up was 25 pence a kWh credited for extra used during the 2 hours, tomorrow 30 pence. Free charging & pretty good for those with Home chargers. I just get 5 kWh extra in 2 hours on a 3 pin lead.

Edited 28 April28 Apr by Evolution13

Sound advice for anyone thinking about buying a hybrid. Yes, I know that he is talking about Australia, but the same principles apply anywhere. The term 'hybrid' can mean many variants and complexities, and choosing the wrong one would be bad.

Warning, the video is long, but the topic is a complex one and is one that many are confused about or have the wrong impression about, so it is worth a watch in my view.

So as not to be mistaken as a vegan, green, EV evangelist i went and bought a dirty diesel. It will see me sorted for a few years hopefull. Noisy at tick over and very comfortable and smooth driving. Well equipped.

Edited 29 April29 Apr by Evolution13

I posted that as what I thought was genuine helpful consumer advice for anyone, it was not targeted at anyone specifically. I did already know that you had a dirty diesel, nothing at all wrong with that, I've had them for years and never regretted it once. 👍

@Graham Butcher I never watched that yet. Coincidence. 2 diesels now and a petrol. 1 is going. VED went up to £360 in April from £200 so the Dealer paid half of 6 months. I will change when i put my own Reg on it to 'Disabled' VED.

Edited 29 April29 Apr by Evolution13

24 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@Graham Butcher I never watched that yet. Coincidence. 2 diesels now and a petrol. 1 is going. VED went up to £360 in April from £200 so the Dealer paid half of 6 months. I will change when i put my own Reg on it to 'Disabled' VED.

Well hopefully others will watch it as he describes in pretty terms exactly how type operates and their advantages and disadvantages. Also goes on to explain if choosing one for its green credentials people could be doing precisely the opposite without knowing the full facts. It is, and especially so if relying on the sales persons advice, a minefield.

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

Well hopefully others will watch it as he describes in pretty good terms exactly how type operates and their advantages and disadvantages. Also goes on to explain if choosing one for its green credentials people could be doing precisely the opposite without knowing the full facts. It is, and especially so if relying on the sales persons advice, it is a minefield

Edited 29 April29 Apr by Graham Butcher

I hate working on a bleeding mobile phone; the above just highlights the problems when pop-ups keep appearing on the screen. We need a delete button on this forum so you can clear a post and start again.

On a separate note but remotely linked to the topic of the thread, I have just been to my local Morrisons shop and purchased some what I thought were spring onions for lunch. While preparing them I noticed that the label said "Salad Onions". Then I noticed the source of them: produce of Egypt. WTF, is the only thing that we grow these days solar farms? All in the name of net zero, no doubt. How on God's green earth is that either economical or indeed green if we are shipping in stuff that we could very easily grow in this country? It's madness.

Back to normal programming, rant over.

Gas price for huge commercial greenhouses in the UK is a real issue now. Just as well there are ones using solar & offpeak electric storage.

6 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

So as not to be mistaken as a vegan, green, EV evangelist i went and bought a dirty diesel. It will see me sorted for a few years hopefull. Noisy at tick over and very comfortable and smooth driving. Well equipped.

Are prices softer since ME war started ?

Hard to resist a bargain that is super comfortable especially if not horrendous on fuel. Still reminisce over my A4 with its 130 hp pdi engine. Filling it up and seeing nearly a 1000 miles on the range predictor.

In the other hand with today and tomorrow's negative electricity prices I can stop at Gloucester services Farm shop services abd have more to spend on grub !

Edited 29 April29 Apr by lol-lol

Sorry to go back to the Wakefield electric rubbish trucks, but it seems that there really is an issue with electric rubbish trucks. Other councils are on record with issues with them and are either staying with diesel or going back to diesel again. On the other hand, the internet is awash with other councils claiming that they are going to or have started trialling them.

It will be interesting to see just what happens in a couple of years time, but as it stands, it is looking like some form of pressure to pursue this ideology of net zero may have been exerted.

At the end of the day, are we being gaslighted?

Nottingham City councillor admits buying electric bin lorries was a mistake

Electric bin lorries offered 'no savings over diesel' says city councillor | West Bridgford Wire

Trial of electric bin lorries in Somerset produces "poor" results as vehicle keeps breaking down, By local democracy reporter Daniel Mumby - Frome Times

Fife's lack of charging infrastructure rules out roll out of electric bin lorries

Electric Bin Lorries for North Yorkshire? - This is the Coast

Depot needs power supply boost before council buys more electric bin lorries – Brighton and Hove News

Electric refuse truck idea binned for now as Walsall trial fails - Birmingham Live

Electric bin lorry keeps breaking down during Somerset trials | Somerset Live

£500,000 electric bin wagons off the road for almost 26 days a month due to 'technical issues'

Cardiff council considers diesel bin lorries over grid concerns - BBC News