So we have ordered a 60 with quite a few options.
I just have a feeling that I’m going to regret not ordering the heat pump option.
The car will be doing about 25-30 miles a day, but I want to do a few longer journeys in it.
So the big question is, is it worth it?

Only time will tell…..

I can only say that I'm not wishing I had got one, and am quite happy with the standard system.  
Heat pump equipped cars should get more range in cold conditions but from what I’ve read the gains are fairly marginal. 

45 minutes ago, classic said:

Only time will tell…..

I can only say that I'm not wishing I had got one, and am quite happy with the standard system.  
Heat pump equipped cars should get more range in cold conditions but from what I’ve read the gains are fairly marginal. 

That’s what I seem to be reading on other forums that it’s not worth it for the journeys it’s going to do.

 

 

Lightly loaded cars as usual rather than a Large Family car with a person in each seat having to be warmed or cooled and the cars not misting / steaming up.

That is a fair enough test for a driver or driver and a passenger tramping up and down roads with empty boots and rear seats.

 

I think if you were to drive from Lands End to John O Groats with 2 Enyaq 60’s, one with a heat pump and one without, both cars would probably stop at the same places to recharge. The difference would be the heat pump car would arrive at the charger with a slightly higher battery percentage and so take less time to charge. The heat pump car would therefore reach John O Groats sooner than the standard one. 
If you are doing very long journeys regularly I guess that could mean something.

My reasoning for my own case.
 

• Most of my journeys would be less than half of the battery capacity, so the heat pump would do little for me.
• The longer journeys I do would generally be in warmer weather - holidays, visiting friends etc., so again the heat pump would not be needed.
• If an exception to this ever occured, I'd just take it on the chin.
• I'd rather spend the money on a panoramic sun-roof

 

9 hours ago, Chris_Malme said:

My reasoning for my own case.
 

• Most of my journeys would be less than half of the battery capacity, so the heat pump would do little for me.
• The longer journeys I do would generally be in warmer weather - holidays, visiting friends etc., so again the heat pump would not be needed.
• If an exception to this ever occured, I'd just take it on the chin.
• I'd rather spend the money on a panoramic sun-roof

 

Welcome to the Forum Chris.

have a look at this interesting video, explained by Skoda engineers 

https://youtu.be/dTOkniCBchQ

15 hours ago, topitu said:

have a look at this interesting video, explained by Skoda engineers 

https://youtu.be/dTOkniCBchQ

Interesting, as the video is presented by the Head of Project Management, and a Battery Development Engineer from Skoda, yet the comments section is made up of people who have tested actual cars with obd scanners/apps saying they don’t do what is claimed…

 

I do find it amusing that people would happily spend £1000 on red metallic paint, yet debate whether spending the same on something that probably will result in more efficiency (though to what extend depends on usage) is worth it.

 

But this is why it's an option - on some makes you pay for a heat pump whether you like it or not (most Stellantis, Tesla etc), but Skoda/VW/Audi give you the option to omit it if you don't think it would be useful to you. Similarly I don't think red paint is useful to me so I chose not to have it.

Scary to think what Stallantis vehicles would be like without a heat pump.  I say that as I sit charging. Thankfully 3 degree C and rising so 7 degrees higher than yesterday.   The WLTP scores on the doors are just a joke.  

 

 

Edited 10 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

To be fair, the Stellantis cars have a single bi-directional heat pump, which is cheaper but has disadvantages (not able to heat cabin and cool battery at the same time for example). The Enyaq has a PTC to heat the battery, a PTC to heat the cabin, a heat pump to cool the cabin (ie aircon) and optionally a heat pump to heat the cabin. From the horrendously complicated diagram I found in the workshop manual, it's possible both heat pumps are capable of cooling or heating the battery coolant system too due to heat exchangers in the system. But it's not that clear whether this is the case or not, so I wouldn't like to say for certain. It's be nice if there was some proper VAG documentation about how the heating/cooling system works in the MEB platform in the public domain, but sadly nothing I can find. I've got bits of the workshop manual that I downloaded from ErWin after a friend let me use their account for a 15 minutes before their 1 hour time slot was up, but not as much as I would have liked to have downloaded. Might have to pay myself and get some more bits

 

 

What is fair about crap range in cold weather with 50 kWh batteries and 45 kWh usable. 

Fair is to warn customers, the system fitted is rubbish and it might be standard but in all honesty charging extra would have seen us taken  to court in some world regions.

Pathetic performance from the batteries in cars / vans already on the roads and ridiculous WLTP figures given will need to change. 

Edited 10 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

On 10/01/2022 at 15:21, roottoot said:

What is fair about crap range in cold weather with 50 kWh batteries and 45 kWh usable. 

Fair is to warn customers, the system fitted is rubbish and it might be standard but in all honesty charging extra would have seen us taken  to court in some world regions.

Pathetic performance from the batteries in cars / vans already on the roads and ridiculous WLTP figures given will need to change. 

The problem with WLTP (where W is world) is the tests are at something like +23c, but UK is so far from equator that the test temperature is unrealistic 

 

From memory @roottoot is fairly far north in Scotland where the number of days where average daily temperature (day and night) where it hits +23c are probably non existent.   
 

The test for battery vehicles needs to have an alternative figure when temperature is 25-30c lower (at about -5c) so guidance on range in winter is given.

 

 

@SurreyJohni am less than half up Scotland and not in a particularly cold area and where there is lots or warm sunny days a week or 3 each year.

Cars are for getting about in and not just in your own area.

 

Lots of the World Regions have no interest in the European Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure designed to help European Manufacturers fix the testing by producing cars to pass tests that they can not actual match on real world roads.

 

With my crappy EV range is not good over 20*oC either,  it is better just below that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

WLPT ranges are useful only in comparing one car with another on a very simplistic basis. As such it's a useful measure. You cannot summarise the efficiency of a car with so many variables using a single value. You need a minimum of a 3D graph showing at least how speed and temperature effect efficiency,  but that makes comparing vehicles very difficult for most people. In reality there are probably 10 or more variables including gradient, elevation gain/loss, tyres, tyre pressure, weight as well as those mentioned above that effect range. Therefore WLPT is useful but everyone should be aware of what it does and doesn't mean. Dealers in particular should not be using WLPT range as value for true range when talking to customers. 

On 10/01/2022 at 15:14, RichR said:

To be fair, the Stellantis cars have a single bi-directional heat pump, which is cheaper but has disadvantages (not able to heat cabin and cool battery at the same time for example). The Enyaq has a PTC to heat the battery, a PTC to heat the cabin, a heat pump to cool the cabin (ie aircon) and optionally a heat pump to heat the cabin. From the horrendously complicated diagram I found in the workshop manual, it's possible both heat pumps are capable of cooling or heating the battery coolant system too due to heat exchangers in the system. But it's not that clear whether this is the case or not, so I wouldn't like to say for certain. It's be nice if there was some proper VAG documentation about how the heating/cooling system works in the MEB platform in the public domain, but sadly nothing I can find. I've got bits of the workshop manual that I downloaded from ErWin after a friend let me use their account for a 15 minutes before their 1 hour time slot was up, but not as much as I would have liked to have downloaded. Might have to pay myself and get some more bits

 

 

Thanks for posting this, it’s very interesting. Everything I’ve read suggests these cars don’t preheat the battery.
During the cold weather, I have been preheating the cabin on mine about 10 minutes before leaving home. It will defrost all the windows and warm up the interior nicely in that time. However I’ve noticed the energy consumption for the first 10 to 15 minutes driving is quite high (around 0.9 to 1.9 miles/kWh), which I presume is it using the ptc heater to warm up the battery. After watching the Skoda video which advised setting a departure time to preheat the battery, and looking at your diagram, I changed the routine today (-1.0c) and started the cabin heating 30 minutes before I was due to leave whilst the car was still connected to my podpoint. Result - the consumption stayed above 2 miles/kWh and was generally around 2.5. 

I've now got access to the VW training material on the heat pump - and sadly some of what I said before on this thread is incorrect. There is only one compressor  - but it does have a variety of valves, heat exchangers and condensers to allow it to both heat and cool at the same time. I wrote a long summary on enyaqforums.co.uk - I'll maybe repost it here. Otherwise have a read of VW SSP document 881213.

 

TL;DR: if you do mainly do journeys where a petrol/diesel engine struggles to get the cabin up to the temperature you want, a heat pump probably isn't worth it on an Enyaq. It's also most effective at temperatures around freezing, so if you don't drive much in winter then it also might not be worth it for you. For everyone else, it can reduce energy consumption to heat the car (particularly at higher speeds).

 

The main source of heat is the motor and battery, but there's a 6kW PTC heater as well, same as non-heat pump cars. The PTC is only used when a sudden increase in temperature is demanded, or the motor and battery are stone cold. It has a variety of modes where it is able to make best use moving heat about - for example, in normal winter usage you'd maybe be drying the air and heating it. So it uses the expansion valve in the cabin to first cool intake air (to dehumidify it), then that same heat that's absorbed by doing that is used to heat the air again afterward to increase the temperature of the cabin air. Once the motor and battery are hot and the climate control settings aren't changed all heating and cooling is done by the single 5kW compressor in the heat pump system. In non-heat pump cars you've got a 5kW compressor to cool/dry and a 6kW PTC heater to provide heat. So to both heat and dry, you could be using a lot more power.

 

There is a separate 6kW battery heating PTC - but as far as we know it's only used if you set a scheduled departure and are not connected to a charger. Apparently v3.0 software will enable pre-heating the battery whilst connected to a charger.

A good video by Skoda team themselves