Last September I had a Helix clutch fitted, due to my stock clutch not coping with my stage one remap. 329BHP 290NM OF TORQUE. In the last couple of weeks it has started to slip. At 3 k revs in 5th when you put your foot down, it sometimes slips a little. Around 2.5k revs and 3k revs in 6th when you put your foot down, it always slips, as the revs suddenly jump 500 more. I rang the garage and they are going to take it in for a week early in January. They say it might be the clutch, or it might be that rear oil seal gone putting a bit of oil on the clutch. What was interesting, was that they said it is sometimes difficult to get a new clutch under warranty if that is the problem, due to my car having a remap. Why else would you fit a performance clutch, if not for a car that has extra power from standard! The performance clutch is meant to handle extra power. As the bill in September for the clutch, DMF, Slave cylinder, Bleed Block etc was over £1700, I do hope another big bill will not be the case in January. Still can't understand the possibility of no warranty on the new clutch though, although the garage state they are going to push for one if the clutch itself is at fault. Wish me luck. 

So I'm running essentially the same Stage 1 remap as you (Shark / Racingline), although still on the stock clutch. Mine gets the same condition at lower revs, higher gears - as you might expect from the stock clutch. 

 

However, I too am surprised on the Helix upgrade (although I am eyeing up a Sachs Performance clutch myself for the future). If it is contaminated with a rear oil seal issue, that would explain it. But you'd think that might fix itself over time given a bit of spirited driving...

 

The query I have is whether the 'low(ish) revs, high gear' constitutes to "lugging the engine" (i.e., low engine speed, high load operations)?

 

This is an open question, as I'm not an engineer and I'm not sure whether this might create the same conditions you're speaking of. It randomly sparked a memory of watching an Engineering Explained episode (if you can stand the voice...) a little while ago; just thought it might be something to consider. However, the more I think about it, the less likely it is 'lugging' the engine as - from what you describe - something is suddenly giving based on the level of torque being generated, and in all probability it is the clutch.

 

I recognise that it's more of an 'is everything ok?' check, but the shortest fix would be to drop a cog lower and rev the thing properly 😉

Edited 8 December, 20214 yr by Ads230

2 hours ago, Ads230 said:

So I'm running essentially the same Stage 1 remap as you (Shark / Racingline), although still on the stock clutch. Mine gets the same condition at lower revs, higher gears - as you might expect from the stock clutch. 

 

However, I too am surprised on the Helix upgrade (although I am eyeing up a Sachs Performance clutch myself for the future). If it is contaminated with a rear oil seal issue, that would explain it. But you'd think that might fix itself over time given a bit of spirited driving...

 

The query I have is whether the 'low(ish) revs, high gear' constitutes to "lugging the engine" (i.e., low engine speed, high load operations)?

 

This is an open question, as I'm not an engineer and I'm not sure whether this might create the same conditions you're speaking of. It randomly sparked a memory of watching an Engineering Explained episode (if you can stand the voice...) a little while ago; just thought it might be something to consider. However, the more I think about it, the less likely it is 'lugging' the engine as - from what you describe - something is suddenly giving based on the level of torque being generated, and in all probability it is the clutch.

 

I recognise that it's more of an 'is everything ok?' check, but the shortest fix would be to drop a cog lower and rev the thing properly 😉

Hi Ads230. Not blowing my own trumpet so to speak, but I have been an advanced driver trainer for the last 30years and so I know exactly what you mean on torque and dropping a gear. The thing is, when the clutch slips at 3k revs in 6th gear, I am already doing over 70mph. So I expect the clutch to grip, not slip at that speed. If I drop 2 gears instead to 4th at that speed and floor it, no problem with slip, due of course to less strain from the engine and drivetrain to get even more speed. According to the rolling road graph I received after the map, peak torque is around 3k revs, so that is where you get the most torque from the engine. But it slips in 6th at 2.5k revs as well, just as the turbo hits good boost. I really don't think with this clutch, I should have to drop 2 gears at high speed to prevent slip, even in the high torque range. These performance clutches are built to handle the torque my car is putting out and a bit more, after all, it's not on a stage 2 map. I remember way back in the past, when you got oil on the clutch plates, you not only had slip, but usually a bit of vibration when reaching the biting point on the clutch to move away. My clutch takes up the drive very smoothly. If it is really the oil seal, I guess I will have another heavy bill with the gearbox having to come out again, fix seal and put it back together. Gearbox out again of course anyway if it is the clutch, I just hope the garage can get a warranty claim out of Helix. I remember years ago when I was running a Civic Type R, a new clutch was fitted and it developed a fault within 6 months. So the warranty was claimed and the whole job was done again by the garage for nothing. It seems this is not the case with performance parts fitted to a car that has been mapped! Have to dig into the savings again I suppose!!! 

I knew you'd understand the 'basic bish fix' 😉 - suggesting a tongue-in-cheek solution to take one's mind off the sheer amount of cash required for (repeated) clutch upgrades... which is essentially part of the reason why I've not touched mine as yet.

 

I somehow missed your original point regarding 'no warranty on a new clutch if mapped'. 100% agree that's a pretty stupid 'exception', likely based in their land of insurance / legalese to cover issues where it may not work with certain maps (i.e., not from well-known suppliers). 

 

Might it be worth investigating what the specifications for the Helix product(s) / SKU you had fitted are, and compare the 'max torque limit' with your outputs from the rolling road graph? The objective being to prove that the max output of the car is within the specified limits stated by Helix (if indeed it does provide these...). That would give you a pretty solid argument for mooting the point about warranty being void for a mapped car, though hopefully it wouldn't come to that and they'd honour the fact that their product has gone faulty within 15 months of fitting.

 

Either way, wish you the best of luck with getting it sorted!

 

(FYI - doing my own IAM Advanced Driver final test next week 👍 Hoping I pass so that theoretically I can suggest 'B-Bish' solutions with more authority 😅)

Edited 8 December, 20214 yr by Ads230

It sounds like there’s a problem and with investigation, you’ll never be happy otherwise. Did you mean 290NM of torque or probably a lot higher@roaddetective? 480NM was measured at Shark when taking my old 220 VRS to stage 1. Like Ads230, it was done on a 2 year old stock clutch, no problem, even after accidentally singeing it, by resting my left foot on it for a few seconds when accelerating going up a hill in 6th. So a performance clutch should have no slippage problems. Good luck and hopefully a cheap-ish repair, shared cost ir even done under warranty. Always difficult to prove /persuade with wear on moving parts.

4 hours ago, roaddetective said:

Last September I had a Helix clutch fitted, due to my stock clutch not coping with my stage one remap. 329BHP 290NM OF TORQUE. In the last couple of weeks it has started to slip. At 3 k revs in 5th when you put your foot down, it sometimes slips a little. Around 2.5k revs and 3k revs in 6th when you put your foot down, it always slips, as the revs suddenly jump 500 more. I rang the garage and they are going to take it in for a week early in January. They say it might be the clutch, or it might be that rear oil seal gone putting a bit of oil on the clutch. What was interesting, was that they said it is sometimes difficult to get a new clutch under warranty if that is the problem, due to my car having a remap. Why else would you fit a performance clutch, if not for a car that has extra power from standard! The performance clutch is meant to handle extra power. As the bill in September for the clutch, DMF, Slave cylinder, Bleed Block etc was over £1700, I do hope another big bill will not be the case in January. Still can't understand the possibility of no warranty on the new clutch though, although the garage state they are going to push for one if the clutch itself is at fault. Wish me luck. 

Correction on the torque, I meant 490nm not 290. Doh

29 minutes ago, Redboy said:

It sounds like there’s a problem and with investigation, you’ll never be happy otherwise. Did you mean 290NM of torque or probably a lot higher@roaddetective? 480NM was measured at Shark when taking my old 220 VRS to stage 1. Like Ads230, it was done on a 2 year old stock clutch, no problem, even after accidentally singeing it, by resting my left foot on it for a few seconds when accelerating going up a hill in 6th. So a performance clutch should have no slippage problems. Good luck and hopefully a cheap-ish repair, shared cost ir even done under warranty. Always difficult to prove /persuade with wear on moving parts.

Hi Redboy. Yes I should have put 490nm of torque. Don't know where my brain is sometimes as I get older. lol. 

I'd be surprised if Helix wouldn't want to be aware of this, if indeed its a fault of the clutch.

 

As the garage said it may be the issue of the iffy RMS (they're a known weak seal on these cars) so if that's the case then sounds like you're gonna need a new friction plate. Having said that, if it was leaking badly I reckon the clutch would slip a lot more than just at peak torque.

 

I'm getting a HELIX clutch fitted on mine next year as I've also got the OEM+ remap (340 bhp/380 ft lbs), but at the same time I'm having AKS fit the upgraded IaBed rear main seal while the flywheel is out.

5 hours ago, DC04R said:

I'd be surprised if Helix wouldn't want to be aware of this, if indeed its a fault of the clutch.

 

As the garage said it may be the issue of the iffy RMS (they're a known weak seal on these cars) so if that's the case then sounds like you're gonna need a new friction plate. Having said that, if it was leaking badly I reckon the clutch would slip a lot more than just at peak torque.

 

I'm getting a HELIX clutch fitted on mine next year as I've also got the OEM+ remap (340 bhp/380 ft lbs), but at the same time I'm having AKS fit the upgraded IaBed rear main seal while the flywheel is out.

I guess I should have had that seal fitted at the same time as the clutch. My common sense escaped me on this occasion. 

11 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

I guess I should have had that seal fitted at the same time as the clutch. My common sense escaped me on this occasion. 

 

Weirdly though it's not that common knowledge. I certainly didn't know about it until i watched a video of Regal fitting an LSD (I'm having a wavetrac fitted) that I noticed it then googled it. 

 

It might not even be that to be honest. I'd get onto Helix ASAP to make them aware but let them know you're going to investigate the RMS or other issues when it's off.

3 hours ago, DC04R said:

 

Weirdly though it's not that common knowledge. I certainly didn't know about it until i watched a video of Regal fitting an LSD (I'm having a wavetrac fitted) that I noticed it then googled it. 

 

It might not even be that to be honest. I'd get onto Helix ASAP to make them aware but let them know you're going to investigate the RMS or other issues when it's off.

I had read about that rear engine seal in the past, but forgot all about it when I had the Helix fitted. However, since your post, I have just rung the garage, a VW independent specialist and stated whether the seal has gone or not, replace it while the gearbox is again out of the car. My good lady also asked how much is it going to cost this time. Honest answer, I just don't know. The garage have said they are going to have a real go if it is the Helix clutch at fault, of getting a new clutch from a warranty claim.  Oh what we spend on our cars!!!

Clutch is about 400 quid labour

 

Rear main seal im getting is 95 plus 45 labour (half hr) 

 

New friction plate is about 400?

3 minutes ago, DC04R said:

Clutch is about 400 quid labour

 

Rear main seal im getting is 95 plus 45 labour (half hr) 

 

New friction plate is about 400?

The labour sounds about right, as does the seal. But £400 just for the drive/friction plate, are you sure. On my garage receipt it shows the Helix friction and pressure plates were £500 plus VAT. I would have thought the pressure plate would be the most expensive of the two. Either way, I certainly have another big bill to pay, having already paid out over £1700 for the whole kit in the first place.  

4 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

The labour sounds about right, as does the seal. But £400 just for the drive/friction plate, are you sure. On my garage receipt it shows the Helix friction and pressure plates were £500 plus VAT. I would have thought the pressure plate would be the most expensive of the two. Either way, I certainly have another big bill to pay, having already paid out over £1700 for the whole kit in the first place.  

 

Can't remember off the top of my head. Aks tuning is the main man for these, he's doing mine (golf r kit tho) and his site is up to date with prices 

It died too early, usually performance clutches are so much stronger then OEM, they keep lasting for life, unless you are torturing them on races or street drags. 

 

Have you felt it is much stiffer then the OEM, after installation? Mine Sachs really made clutch pedal significantly heavier, but it bites much more then factory one. 

13 hours ago, nidza said:

It died too early, usually performance clutches are so much stronger then OEM, they keep lasting for life, unless you are torturing them on races or street drags. 

 

Have you felt it is much stiffer then the OEM, after installation? Mine Sachs really made clutch pedal significantly heavier, but it bites much more then factory one. 

As you might have read one of my posts above, I am not the sort to drag race or torture a clutch. It was nicely run in over 500miles and is really smooth now, even when moving away at low revs. What does help with the expected stiffer pedal, is the braided hose and bleed block I had fitted at the same time as the Helix. I also don't really feel any extra bite, partly I suppose down to the block and hose I guess. I remember last time I was at that garage, they mentioned an Audi owner who had a Helix clutch fitted and did not like the bite, the stiffness and vibration on moving away. So he had his car booked back in for them to fit the braided hose and Bleed block.  My pedal is still a little stiffer than OEM, but you really don't notice it once you are driving. I should find out the cause of the clutch slip in the week they are taking in the car starting the 10th of January. I will of course update once I know. Bloomin bills, when do they ever end. 

Good luck with it. I hope the warranty will be accepted.

Well here is an update to my clutch slip problem. Took the car to the VW Specialist in Swindon this morning. They got straight onto the car and have just phoned me up with the BAD news. The Helix clutch slip was not down to a bad clutch, or a leak from the rear engine oil seal. It was down to the gearbox oil seal leaking onto the clutch. They also found when stripping it down, that I have  the small classic leak from the water pump. The new DMF has heat marks on it now, along with the new Helix pressure plate from the slipping problem. So I have to have the water pump fixed, along with another new Helix pressure and drive plate. Added onto the bill will be another new DMF. At least they said they will give me a 20% discount, but the bill will certainly be well over £1000. I will know the exact amount when I pick up the car at the end of the week. So last year I paid £650 for a Racingline stage one remap, along with over £1700 for a Helix performance clutch, new DMF, Braided line and Billet Block, Slave Cylinder. Now I have this new big bill only a few months after. OMG, I must love my car!!  Hope you guys are having better luck than me with your cars.  

What an absolute PitA for you 😣 - I was cringing reading the description, that is not ideal whatsoever. Really sorry to hear it! 

 

I am wondering if/when the classic water pump leak will raise its head with mine, but desperately hoping that the gearbox oil seal will do its job and stay in place generally. Still considering the a Sachs clutch upgrade later this / early next year, but the actual + potential costs are helping me kick that down the road a little bit.

 

Hopefully some good can come out of this situation in that there may be some lessons learned for garages to check the Gbx oil seal as part of pre-aftermarket part installation to ensure it's in good order?

23 minutes ago, Ads230 said:

What an absolute PitA for you 😣 - I was cringing reading the description, that is not ideal whatsoever. Really sorry to hear it! 

 

I am wondering if/when the classic water pump leak will raise its head with mine, but desperately hoping that the gearbox oil seal will do its job and stay in place generally. Still considering the a Sachs clutch upgrade later this / early next year, but the actual + potential costs are helping me kick that down the road a little bit.

 

Hopefully some good can come out of this situation in that there may be some lessons learned for garages to check the Gbx oil seal as part of pre-aftermarket part installation to ensure it's in good order?

Cheers Ads230. Yes I am getting a load of luck, trouble is it's all bad. Lol. As for the engine oil seal that was not leaking. Seeing as though it's all coming apart again, I asked them to renew it at the same time anyway. I believe there is an upgraded rear engine oil seal they will be fitting. Never had any real problems with my old MK2 Octavia VRS TSI, apart from needing a new inlet manifold at 30k miles and I traded that in at 104k miles for my present car. That MK2 was also mapped as well. Hopefully after all this work, it will be reliable for a while now.  

I think there are a few quality comparisons that have been made on this forum regarding the Mk2 to Mk3 Octavia 'features', where the older mark has been more reliable and better-engineered than the 2014-18 models. Given that things like lower-engine mounts, colour-schemed spoilers of '230' (/ special edition), and certain other parts seem to be fitted dependent on what side of bed the factory engineers got out of that morning... guess it's dependent on who built the car at factory in terms of the 'luck' received 🤷‍♂️

 

Mine has been good up until now, only issue was a sticking turbo actuator (which, again, appears to be common on the EA888). My friend is taking his 2017 Golf R through a Sachs clutch upgrade in the next month or so with The Phirm, and I've informed him of your experience. So will definitely ask him to check with them on the main / engine / gearbox oil seals and replace if possible, since everything's apart - as you say. 

 

So you may already have hopefully 'saved' +1 person by informing them of this issue.

 

Wish you only good luck onwards for the future fixes, hopefully it'll come back and continue to be the 'OEM+' car you were hoping for in the first place ✌

Which seal failed? Thought that was the one that went (BTW the uprated one I'm getting is from AKS and is IAbed billet rear main seal if you're after one. £95 quid so not massively more than OEM one I'm sure).

Edited 11 January, 20224 yr by DC04R

2 hours ago, DC04R said:

Which seal failed? Thought that was the one that went (BTW the uprated one I'm getting is from AKS and is IAbed billet rear main seal if you're after one. £95 quid so not massively more than OEM one I'm sure).

It was not the rear engine seal that failed, it was the gearbox input shaft seal that went. While they have it stripped down, I have asked them to also renew that rear engine seal with the uprated one. It's all big money again though when the bill comes at the end of the week. 

22 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

It was not the rear engine seal that failed, it was the gearbox input shaft seal that went. While they have it stripped down, I have asked them to also renew that rear engine seal with the uprated one. It's all big money again though when the bill comes at the end of the week. 

 

 

Ahhh so is that a drive shaft seal? What a bummer. 

 

With my box being taken apart for lsd I'd hope they replace all seals anyway. 

 

Not Fancy lashing an lsd in while it's apart?! 

2 hours ago, DC04R said:

 

 

Ahhh so is that a drive shaft seal? What a bummer. 

 

With my box being taken apart for lsd I'd hope they replace all seals anyway. 

 

Not Fancy lashing an lsd in while it's apart?! 

Spent enough money as it is mate. The input shaft is the one that comes out of the gearbox and through the clutch connecting to the rear of the engine. That is why with this leak it has ruined a brand new performance clutch set up and DMF with it slipping putting heat marks on both the clutch pressure plate and the DMF. The drive shafts connect the gearbox to the wheels. Maybe I should crowd fund online to pay for it all. LOL.