Would changing the standerd hatchback 19.5mm wheel cylinders for 22mm ones off the van models increase rear braking efficency?

Yes!

But also pedal travel.

And you may be under risk locking the rears before the fronts and that is not going to be a fun day.

On 17/12/2021 at 19:58, R_U_AFA said:

the van models increase rear braking efficency?

 

In our 1.3 Felicia the weight distribution is 62 front and 38 rear, i don't know for your model but if happens what the @Thefeliciahacker said your car will has  a major brake problem especially on curbs.

I don't think that the factory brake regulator can handle the new situation and you have to buy a new one, to make some brake tests to find the proper adjustments etc, does it worth it?

But I have a solution. 

You can use a brake pressure adjuster and fine tune the pressure on the lines. 

Yet again only if you are full loaded with good tires you could use the extra pressure. 

An unladen felly can lock its rears as it is from the factory. 

4 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

 

You can use a brake pressure adjuster and fine tune the pressure on the lines. 

 

 

How To Adjust Your Drum Brakes.

 

 

It just because I use the hatch like a van, and it's alwas fully loadedPlus later in the year I am planing to tow a trailer, so was just wanting that bit extra braking just in case.

14 hours ago, R_U_AFA said:

It just because I use the hatch like a van, and it's alwas fully loadedPlus later in the year I am planing to tow a trailer, so was just wanting that bit extra braking just in case.

Do it, for sure it will benefit overall braking especially when loaded.

Install one of these in line with the rear brake line fine tune the car and you will be golden.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333836492774?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4dba349fe6:g:q7kAAOSww6lf5ZC1&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA8DOn2Uz8y6T15%2FunQYNWps%2Fk4Nd9IQHtxVGr2zPM0Dkd7E%2Ff9hOq1B7VunqnW42qNMqJBXwLRR4MiyGp8rksxmW5yx0VibxSmKfnVstY%2BRVXMkYCrhb3lorFk0NrvOkXNxN4EFiQCO%2FKxKvY4Bne%2BuD3jiDeaUqVh4t5ctZlJkiuvKr9yx5J305j6s6aos2Ttevdutt81HpbsflugCUVbo8ZG7FY44nr%2BeyYYg9bZoRzSOThcyRPU2idrcRiQlKladaWSVjRFGVQTaS6kSPqeNEx4hMVHfO042ES%2Bmspcf3ial7zZfWaEl6Sj6uRCoOKbA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBMhpuc_7pf

Just a thought here; does the van have a different specification rear line limiter for the brakes to what the estate does? And, indeed, what are the plated towing weights for both vehicles?

22 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Just a thought here; does the van have a different specification rear line limiter for the brakes to what the estate does? And, indeed, what are the plated towing weights for both vehicles?

he has the hatch which doesnt have rear pressure regulator

25 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

he has the hatch which doesnt have rear pressure regulator

So his rear brakes will be over-powered when/if he fits van rear cylinders.

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

over-powered when/if he fits van rear cylinders.

Yes but only if unladen, which he claims is never. And I advised on a pressure regulator which would solve these issues. 

I never have less than 125kg but generally it's more like 200-250kg then add my weight, so sometimes it can be a struggle to stop in time if someone slams all on in front of you. I haven't driven the car unladen for about 4 years.

Being a late facelift hatchback it does have a presssure regulator, but it's the load sensitive type connected to the rear beam axle, could I fit the type sugested above and keep the one already fitted, or could this cause a dangerous situation if the car was ever driven unloaded, with no pressure being delivered to the rears?

18 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

he has the hatch which doesnt have rear pressure regulator

 

Can't he adjust the rear drums as the video above to be more ''immediate" ?

10 hours ago, R_U_AFA said:

it does have a presssure regulator, but it's the load sensitive type connected to the rear beam axle

Well it is precalibrated regulator, so increasing the piston diameter is going to incrase the force, the regulators do a fixer pressure reduction.

So yes you can install the suggested one in line, and that is actually the most optimal set up.

With the inline one you set the maximum laden brake pressure, and then you allow the build in one to do the deduction based on the weight you are carrying.

Fine tuning the setup you actually can get SAFE and GOOD results

Searching thru the service manual I noticed the rear pressure regulator is adjustable.

So there in need for what we are talking.

Go ahead loosen the nut on the spring and move the attachment point upwards with the car laden.

And you are set.

57 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

immediate

cutting down on free play will not affect absolute brake pressure, it will only affect pedal travel

Surely what should be looked at initially is the condition of the existing brakes, including fluid, and the tyres.  Brakes and tyres as they age can lose efficiency, let alone with use. 

 

Then perhaps move on to better brake shoes.  The front brakes will also need to be good condition and balanced with the rear, possibly better pads fitted too, I do not think drilled or slotted discs are much more than fashion items on road cars generally.  The heavier use will require more regular maintenance and replacement of parts of the braking system which includes the tyres.

 

22 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Surely what should be looked at initially is the condition of the existing brakes, including fluid, and the tyres.  Brakes and tyres as they age can lose efficiency, let alone with use. 

 

Then perhaps move on to better brake shoes.  The front brakes will also need to be good condition and balanced with the rear, possibly better pads fitted too, I do not think drilled or slotted discs are much more than fashion items on road cars generally.  The heavier use will require more regular maintenance and replacement of parts of the braking system which includes the tyres.

We suppose the op has taken great care of them brakes

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

We suppose the op has taken great care of them brakes

And you may well be right but we have all been caught out by assumptions and it always pays to start at the basics before moving on.

 

Then of course there is the geographical location which may or may not influence purchasing decisions. 🙂

 

The brakes are serviced at thes same time as I switch from summer to winter tyres + fluid every 2 years, and the fronts are as strong as ever have been (to the point of locking the wheels if slamed on) thats what lead me to the rears.

I did consider more grippy friction material shoes, but don't these eat through the drums at a much quicker rate, resulting in a big bill down the line.

It was just the fact that the van, pick-up, and kombi have bigger wheel cylinders from factory, that led me to start this thread.

I will probably just get a set of the 22mm cylindres anyway, they are only £10 each for some quality ones.

24 minutes ago, R_U_AFA said:

I will probably just get a set of the 22mm cylindres anyway

first try the trick i said which is free and fast, then test the procced

30 minutes ago, R_U_AFA said:

I did consider more grippy friction material shoes, but don't these eat through the drums at a much quicker rate, resulting in a big bill down the line.

It was just the fact that the van, pick-up, and kombi have bigger wheel cylinders from factory, that led me to start this thread.

I will probably just get a set of the 22mm cylindres anyway, they are only £10 each for some quality ones.

Heavier braking will wear the brakes more but I'm not sure you'd get that much extra wear on the drums as the shoes shed but I'm no expert you'd be best to ask a manufacturer or specialist supplier.  Vans, truck, buses and trains use more braking and brake manufacture  and  specialist suppliers would also supply to theses heavier users so would know their onions.

 

How often do you or others change brake drums normally?  My old drums had the size and wear specifications cast on them from the days of, forget the word now but say cutting them back to use, and brake shoes are still relined I think.

 

You could perhaps go wider shoes, and with also better braking material but that would depend on your drums condition.

 

There still are a very few engineering type companies left in Britain but they do sometimes take seeking out, places that still make things like proper steel road springs (for cars, trams, trains etc. to correct original specification or better.

 

And I think a few places that know about brakes but all the links I have are for "classic" British stuff, but try the following for information and possibly purchase, I personally find were possible an actual telephone call  (landline to save all the "hello" "can you hear me" that has returned to mobiles) or even personal visit.

 

These were just first two from quick Google search there are other 

 

https://www.autoandindustrial.co.uk/

 

http://www.bondingandreline.co.uk/

 

Cheers.

 

Edited 21 December, 20214 yr by nta16

10 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I personally find were possible an actual telephone call  (landline to save all the "hello" "can you hear me" that has returned to mobiles) or even personal visit.

The BEST ADVICE

On 21/12/2021 at 12:21, Thefeliciahacker said:

I noticed the rear pressure regulator is adjustable.

So there in need for what we are talking.

 

Needs 2 persons inside a garage with the mechanic to know the procedure, if i ain't a Skoda guy i doubt if he take the responsibility to do it.

With the aftermarket pressure regulator things are much easier, after the install everything is on the driver, test and click till you find what's the best result.

If i remember correct the Felicia brake pump is 22mm so if we want to buy and aftermarket regulator what are the specifications?

We measure it at bar? How is the stock and how much can we go with that regulator?

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If i remember correct the Felicia brake pump is 22mm so if we want to buy and aftermarket regulator what are the specifications?

We measure it at bar? How is the stock and how much can we go with that regulator?

Rear brake pressure unladen should be around 450psi and 650 laden