That small group can include cars drivers and commercial vehicle operators in and around Aberdeen Scotland. 

 

 

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

11 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I'm waiting for somebody to fin or liquid cool the motor on an EV

I'd've thought they'd already be watercooled? Surely?

 

Anyway, the future of cars may be a tad dimmer in the media, but that doesn't worry me unduly. Not really a 'car fan' in terms of getting excited about them, personally.

 

Car forums may carry on; there'll just be a bifurcation of those into 'CDs' and those into 'vinyl', I expect. Hopefully without pointless arguing about which is 'best'.

 

Forums where there are large numbers of non-electric car owners may even get busier as those cars mature and need more problem solving effort to keep them running well.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

That small group can include cars drivers and commercial vehicle operators in and around Aberdeen Scotland. 

 

I wonder if that Honda BOC site is still there now the factory is closed 😕

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

EV generally are only heavier by 200 kg, if it is heavier at all.

 

Current large family car, with a big heavy diesel in it, 1.5 tonne.

Any new similar sized EV with decent range (300 miles +) is upwards of 2 Tonne.

 

I'd like to be wrong, so if you can point to a less than 2 tonne, greater than 300 mile replacement EV car (Octy Sized) , I'm all ears.

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

This is a good summary of current state of hydrogen, why it only makes sense for a small group of car owners

 

 

 

 

Chicken and egg sadly.

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

That small group can include cars drivers and commercial vehicle operators in and around Aberdeen Scotland. 

 

 

That's missing the new one in Milford Haven (or maybe Pembroke Dock, not quite sure) that is run by ITM power. I could just about commute from my home to my office (at NPL) in a Mirai!

It is good if true that Toyota will remanufacture cars in the UK up to 3 times.  Also VW group being interested in servicing older VW group models and parts being manufactured or remanufactured / refurbished.     The UK government need to assist people and companies on keeping vehicles on the road rather than having them scrapped.    Out of date airbags need addressed as there are millions of cars on UK roads with these that might not work. 

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

There are hydrogen stations that have come and gone.  There are more in Scotland that are not Public Filling Stations but Fleet use like in Fife.  

31 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Out of date airbags need addressed as there are millions of cars on UK roads with these that might not work. 

 

I reckon I must fall into this category as my Fabia is well past its expected lifetime, at least in the eyes of a manufacturer.

The reality is that we don't have enough electrical generation capacity to replace fossil fuel, not by a long way. Two things will happen over the next 10-15 years: ICE will be increasingly marginalised through taxation policy to indirectly fund the infrastructural investment required for alternative fuels, the net result will be far fewer cars on the road, they will become more expensive, and there will be hybrid autonomy / public car share transport schemes in major urban areas. There will likely be a mix of powertrain tech application; some H2, some EV, some PEM. Where you need range and high energy e.g. commercial trucks, rail etc, then PEM makes sense, for aero substituting kerosene with H2 makes sense, for small city cars, EV makes sense. The challenge is to move from brown hydrogen production to green, but that requires a massive shift to renewable electricity generation and nuclear. All of this before we consider the land grab issues around forecourt space that's required to service EV recharging and/or local H2 production.

8 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

I reckon I must fall into this category as my Fabia is well past its expected lifetime, at least in the eyes of a manufacturer.

I was involved in an accident over Xmas where all airbags went off, albeit at a relatively low speed impact of around 40mph. Having experienced it, this would be right at the top of my list of things to check!

@stever750 the we with not enough electricity is England which is just 1 country in the UK.  Scotland does now have only 1 nuclear generator and that will close soon but generating electricity and hydrogen is not difficult in Scotland.  The places that can just need to do it and not be discouraged by the UK government.   

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59837782

 

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

3 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Current large family car, with a big heavy diesel in it, 1.5 tonne.

Any new similar sized EV with decent range (300 miles +) is upwards of 2 Tonne.

 

I'd like to be wrong, so if you can point to a less than 2 tonne, greater than 300 mile replacement EV car (Octy Sized) , I'm all ears.

 

Tesla Model 3 LR: 1919 kg https://ev-database.uk/car/1321/Tesla-Model-3-Long-Range-Dual-Motor

BMW 3 series xDrive diesel with similar performance: 1820 kg https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/saloon-2019/m340d-xdrive-sport-automatic-4d/specs/

99 kg difference.

 

I'm not a fan of comparing the same model of car that are made to be both EV and ICE, because there are redundant frame structure when battery are fitted (structural battery saves on frame material). EV need to be on dedicated EV platform. But for fairness and interest of science, here are 2 like-for-like:

 

Kia Niro and e-niro same trim: 

Petrol hybrid: 1490kg https://www.parkers.co.uk/kia/niro/suv-2016/4-16-gdi-156kwh-lithium-ion-139bhp-dct-auto-5d/specs/

Electric: 1812kg https://www.parkers.co.uk/kia/e-niro/suv-2019/4-64kwh-lithium-ion-201bhp-auto-5d/specs/

330 kg difference. It is 182 kg under 2 tonne, 282 miles range, good size as Octy replacement.

 

MG ZS exclusive trim:

Petrol: 1239kg https://www.parkers.co.uk/mg/zs/suv-2017/exclusive-15-dohc-vti-tech-5d/specs/

Electric: 1534kg https://www.parkers.co.uk/mg/zs-ev/suv-2019/exclusive-auto-5d/specs/

295 kg difference. But the petrol only got 2 star safety rating in 2017, whereas the EV got 5 starts in 2019. Reason being the petrol version is missing many safety tech.

 

Hardly 1 tonne of battery, all EV's above are less than 2 tonne. 2 out of 3 can do ~300 miles. 

More like 500kg. (Tesla 3 long range 300+ miles battery is 480kg). Whilst a 4 cylinder diesel engine weighs ~200kg, excluding other parts of drivetrain.

12 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Of course having 1 tonne of batteries in a car is always going to mess things up a bit

 

Small EV's only models with little range that only carry up to 4 passengers are rather heavy.

The Honda-e especially.   

Then the ones that come from ICE vehicles like the MINI or Corsa / 208 are also heavy and not that efficient.

There are ones that were ICE models like the e-Up and Mii electric that are efficient as small ev's. 

 

You can get quiet night time traffic light Grand Pix's other than tyre squeal. 

 

 

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

Regarding weight, there is a tonne (sorry!) of opportunity to improve efficiency of EV powertrain technology, so the specific outputs are likely to increase through new model evolution.

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by stever750

VED needs put on EV's and ICE vehicles by length / weight / width because they  might be reducing emissions but not congestion. 

 

To me Road mile charging on vehicle weight of private and business use passengers cars makes sense if big cars are going about with just a driver.

Edited 12 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

I quite like the Nissan Canto(?) it sings!

There was an article by a couple with a new Nissan Leaf on the MSN page and really their only

gripe was recharging. They planned their routes to include charging points then arrived to find

many out of action or queues of the local electric cars doing their normal recharging.

Aside from the huge initial price that is my main worry, the constant niggle at the back of your mind

that you may not be able to recharge. One driver freely admitted having a petrol car for longer journeys.

No need for a huge initial price as Manufacturers have had to reduce prices because the UK Government are not giving them a nice hand out in the way of grants.

There will be lots of used EV's on the market this year and next and year on year as more new ones get put on the roads.

Many lease / rent cars and more will have them on subscription and as it is buying a new ICE vehicle and running one takes money. 

10 minutes ago, gumdrop said:

There was an article by a couple with a new Nissan Leaf on the MSN page and really their only

gripe was recharging. They planned their routes to include charging points then arrived to find

many out of action or queues of the local electric cars doing their normal recharging.

Aside from the huge initial price that is my main worry, the constant niggle at the back of your mind

that you may not be able to recharge. One driver freely admitted having a petrol car for longer journeys.

Nail on the head!

The reason my family isn't 2 EV's is because I'm not spending £45k just to have a long range car parked up on the driveway to be used for a few long journey and occasionally commuting (WFH most days now). I have an older Octavia because its depreciation is very low and I don't trust UK's public charging infrastructure.

 

Last time I needed charging, someone sat on Morrison's rapid for over 1 hour, near my destination where I spent an hour. Plan B Electric Highway chargers were offline. Plan C Shell charger had a Renault van on slow AC and said he'll be there for another hour. Plan D Shell charger doesn't appear on their official app, and had to phone to get a charge started.

 

Milton Keynes is great, I wouldn't hesitate driving my EV there. I also happily drive towards Braintree and surrounding area thanks to the Gridserve charging forecourt. I would NOT dream of driving anywhere else outside my home range in any EV's other than Tesla.

 

 

 

When I first got my EV in 2017, it wasn't like this. 2 rapid chargers were plenty. Now, single or dual charger locations are pretty much useless, liable to queuing or out of service.

 

At no point in early 1900's people thought "I know, I'll put a single petrol pump unattended, somewhere random." I don't understand why it's okay now.

 

Sorry for the rant.

I now get a smile & rising annoyance as i sit charging free at Tesco and the Black Tesla and the White Renault EV van that use the EV charging bays to park while they go in shopping but do not plug in their vehicles, it is just that the bays are quick to park at.