Stabilisation Control (ESC) and Engine shaking

[gotofms]

Hi,

I've just been driving home this evening and everything was fine until i rounded a roundabout and went to power away and suddenly the car lost power and there was an abrupt and continuing shudder. I could barely accelerate and the ESP light came on and the warning info came on saying "Stabilisation Control Error" with ESC and engine light. I immediately stopped and turned the engine off. Turned it back on and the engine was shaking quite a lot, the whole car was shaking/shuddering. As i only lived 1/2 mile up the road. I tried to carry on, difficult to accelerate with the shuddering but once in 3rd it was okay. Back into 2nd and 1st and it was difficult to get any power and the shuddering was quite a concern.

Once i parked up I flipped the bonnet open and asked the Wife to start the car. The engine was shaking/shuddering quite abruptly, continuously on its mounts. So turned the engine back off.

 

I've had the car exactly a year, its a 63 plate 1.2 TSi 105ps which i think is chain driven.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone here might have had the same problem or if anyone knew what it might be before I make the dreaded phone call to a garage.

 

 

[gotofms]

I'm just wondering if a dodgy coil pack could cause this. I just watched a video on youtube with an Audi using VW coil packs (which i assume the Skoda uses) and the engine shaking was quite similar. It also showed the same type of errors. Once changed the engine stopped shaking. 

[Ootohere]

Dodgy Coil packs could. Coils can be dodgy because a spark plug is.

 

So how many miles has the car done, when was the last servicing done and were the spark plugs replaced.

 

Just an idea of what Skoda UK shows as servicing, but hopefully in 8-9 years the spark plugs were replaced.

 

Edited 13 February, 2022 by roottoot

[gotofms]

Hi,

 

The car has done 78,000 miles and the "service and oil change" literally had appeared on the info panel two days ago so it's up for a service now as it had a service just before i bought the car a year ago. It has a digital service record which i am unsure how to get access too, to have a look what was done.
I just borrowed a cheap OBD reader from a neighbour and plugged it in. It shows 1 code found. P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire
 

[xman]

Assuming this is the CBZB chain driven cam engine......EA111 engine

 

Pop the plastic cover off the top of the engine and visually inspect the coil pack for signs of tracking/melting from the ht lead connections.

 

If it looks ok then

 

New spark plugs needed first. NGK or Bosch Iridium plugs are required.

 

Whilst changing plugs, check leads are not open circuit (should be 9k ohm resistance). Use the correct tool to pull the spark plug boots off to avoid damaging the leads. If misfire still still there then change the coil pack, theres only one  But make sure you buy only a good quality one and not a cheapie, theres little difference in price anyway.

 

Usual sequence of events

 

Worn out plugs-> intermittent misfire under acceleration -> overvoltage at coil-> coil insulation breakdown and failure

 

Plugs should have been changed at 60,000 miles with either NGK IZFR6P7 or 

Bosch  FR6HI332   (0 242 240 665)

Skoda Part no. 03F905600A

 

or direct equivalent, must be fine tip Iridium/platinum construction to last the distance.

 

Do check we're talking about the correct engine and not the later EA211 engine which is a cambelt engine.

 

If that's the case its different spark plugs and individual coil packs per cylinder. No HT leads. You need a different special tool to remove the coil packs to avoid damage. Those spark plugs need changing every 40,000 miles (double platinum fine tip).

 

EA111 engine

 

 

 

EA211 engine (LHD version so brake reservoir is in wrong position for UK)

 

Edited 13 February, 2022 by xman

[gotofms]

I've just gone to check this and found something quite worrying...

When i shone the torch down i found the attached hose detached and hanging off with oil around it. I first noticed the oil and upon having a look found it detached and what looks like the end broken. I did try putting it back but it won't hold in and i'm worried now the bit that seems to be broken off is inside the engine.
When i put the hose back on (pushed it gently back in as far as i could).... the engine still shook and spluttered. But it was only just pushed in a tiny amount as there doesn't seem to be much to push in.

 

[gotofms]

Looking on here, this seems to be a Crankcase Breather hose and has a long spout to push into the crankcase. However mine has definitely broken off and i assume the inch long bit is still inside the crank case.

[xman]

Firstly, the broken PCV valve is not the cause of the misfire/shuddering, it just means oil mist making a mess at the bavk of the engine.

1 hour ago, gotofms said:

Looking on here, this seems to be a Crankcase Breather hose and has a long spout to push into the crankcase. However mine has definitely broken off and i assume the inch long bit is still inside the crank case.

Yes it the classic PCV broken end. You need to source a new one £10-£20 I paid around £16 at the skoda dealer but that was about 4 years ago. Need to attempt to recover the broken part still in the rubber grommet, I couldn't, and Ive not read of anyone who did but  in my case, pushing a new one in  the broken bit caused a heart stopping moment  when I heard a crunching noise and the cranking almost stalled as it obviously got chewed up in the valve gear.

 

Full details here on how to replace

 

[gotofms]

That's great thank you. 

Can you confirm if cylinder 1 spark plug is the far left hand side?

I've ordered a new spark plug, plug socket and new breather valve.

I shall then check those and if it continues I shall go down the coil pack route 

[J.R.]

38 minutes ago, gotofms said:

Can you confirm if cylinder 1 spark plug is the far left hand side?

 

Can you confirm where you are looking from? 😆

 

The convention is that number one cylinder is the one nearest the crankshaft pulley and furthest from the flywheel, the latter should actually be "furthest from where the drive is transmitted" to avoid confusion on oddball engines like the FWD Triumph 1300 with its starter ring gear carrier on the front pulley.

[xman]

1 hour ago, gotofms said:

I've ordered a new spark plug, plug socket and new breather valve.

 

One spark plug?

 

You need to change all 4, if no.1 is worn, they are all worn and if you're lucky to get it working ok changing just no.1, the others will follow in short suit and take the coil down with it too.

 

You didn't say how long the current spark plugs have been in? Have they ever been changed? And if so, by whom and with what? I ask that because another poster bought a car with the wrong plugs fitted whoch

 

You will need a boot puller, don't pull them by the lead, because you will break the lead internally.

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VS5293-Spark-Plug-Lead/dp/B001K4EAHY

 

And you should check the leads are good and intact. Measure the resistance using a multimeter, should be around 9kohm for genuine leads. Faulty ones will be far higher resistance or more likely open circuit.

 

Faulty leads will cause misfires and kill the coil after a while.

[ProjectZ]

On 13/02/2022 at 17:19, gotofms said:

Hi,

I've just been driving home this evening and everything was fine until i rounded a roundabout and went to power away and suddenly the car lost power and there was an abrupt and continuing shudder. I could barely accelerate and the ESP light came on and the warning info came on saying "Stabilisation Control Error" with ESC and engine light. I immediately stopped and turned the engine off. Turned it back on and the engine was shaking quite a lot, the whole car was shaking/shuddering. As i only lived 1/2 mile up the road. I tried to carry on, difficult to accelerate with the shuddering but once in 3rd it was okay. Back into 2nd and 1st and it was difficult to get any power and the shuddering was quite a concern.

Once i parked up I flipped the bonnet open and asked the Wife to start the car. The engine was shaking/shuddering quite abruptly, continuously on its mounts. So turned the engine back off.

 

I've had the car exactly a year, its a 63 plate 1.2 TSi 105ps which i think is chain driven.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone here might have had the same problem or if anyone knew what it might be before I make the dreaded phone call to a garage.

 

 

Did you ever solve/identify the issue. Mine is doing the same. 

[xman]

Check no.3 plug lead resistance, should be around 9k ohms (OEM lead). Very common issue is this lead goes open circuit due to heat damage. Hence misfires, EPC and ESC/traction control lit.

 

Remove the spark plug boot with an appropriate tool, don't pull by the lead as you will probably break the core

[ProjectZ]

Thanks for that. I have actually replaced the leads and ignition module. Didn’t help. Changed the plugs the year previous. VAG COM reads misfires on all cylinders, all clear after turning ignition off for a few mins. The car only does it when it’s hot to. 

[Zakiwashi]

did you replace the HT leads with NGK ones with the plastic conduit "heatshields"? I just had exactly the same issue, the diagnostics pointed to coil pack failure. I fitted a new one and the issue reappered. I then changed out the plugs for the bosch iridium ones and fitted the NGK HT leads. the old plugs and leads were in a terrible state. as soon as i fired it up, the epc and traction control lights were gone and the engine was no longer shuddering at low revs. The plugs in mine had been changed in 2020, so i wouldn't rule them out if they have been in for over a year.

[edbostan]

I had a broken PCV valve after a major service on my Roomster. I suspected it was broken when the air filter was replaced because the air box top when pulled up and back to release the filter puts leverage on the pipe to the PCV valve and breaks the spigot where it enters the rocker cover. How many other broken PCV valves are out there with unsuspecting owners?

Edited 28 February, 2023 by edbostan

[gotofms]

On 12/02/2023 at 19:54, ProjectZ said:

Thanks for that. I have actually replaced the leads and ignition module. Didn’t help. Changed the plugs the year previous. VAG COM reads misfires on all cylinders, all clear after turning ignition off for a few mins. The car only does it when it’s hot to. 

 

Hi,

Yes, after changing the plugs and leads all my issues disappeared. 

I have noticed yesterday after trying to find another fault that one lead was melting (plastic sheathing) so I will cable tie this out of the way and to another to stop it contacting and melting.

My issue originally was a rubber mount that the plugs push into to keep them in place. The rubber had displaced and pushed the plug out slightly. 

I bought new plugs and new coil packs and replaced the lot. 

[hugoedo]

AMAZING! had exactly the same issues. Changed the Spark Plugs and the ignition leads. All yellow dashboard codes disappeared: ESP and ESC. No more power issues, noises....as describe in the thread. Thanks so much for sharing. Now to change the Valve and Grommet. In my case was cylinder 3.

Edited yesterday at 15:14 by hugoedo