1 hour ago, skomaz said:

No apology needed...   I didn't say they weren't made...   But Mercedes' info I've seen says they aren't in that vehicle.

 

There is a version of the eCitaro with solid state battery technology but it's limited availability, cannot be used with pantographs etc. and has a range of about 120 to 200 miles which potentially limits it's use in general service.

 

It says LMP on the battery pack in the rear bus and there are two in the back of the bus and 3 in the roof making up the 5 battery packs that are the traction batteries for the bus.

 

It is made more like a lasagne that batching lots of tiny AA batteries like other EVs.  I gather it "spun off" from our work in paper and hence our LMP solid state batteries used in the Autolib car program, our 6m and 12m buses used in Europe and Singapore, and now Mercedes 12M buses is 

 

 

There are already more than 40 Mercedes buses in service using our LMP Solid State batteries..................................... 

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132780_solid-state-batteries-are-already-being-installed-in-city-buses-update#:~:text=These Mercedes-Benz eCitaro buses,sharing vehicles back in 2015.

 

Any plans for the Lithium Oxide & hydroxide coming from the Ukraine any time soon might need a rethink.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

It says LMP on the battery pack in the rear bus and there are two in the back of the bus and 3 in the roof making up the 5 battery packs that are the traction batteries for the bus.

 

It is made more like a lasagne that batching lots of tiny AA batteries like other EVs.  I gather it "spun off" from our work in paper and hence our LMP solid state batteries used in the Autolib car program, our 6m and 12m buses used in Europe and Singapore, and now Mercedes 12M buses is 

 

 

There are already more than 40 Mercedes buses in service using our LMP Solid State batteries..................................... 

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132780_solid-state-batteries-are-already-being-installed-in-city-buses-update#:~:text=These Mercedes-Benz eCitaro buses,sharing vehicles back in 2015.

 

 

Just realised we're at cross purposes...   I looked at your video again and the bus IS an eCitaro which can come with LMP batteries as I said...   So we are actually talking about the same thing!

 

Hence apologies for my mistake...   I think I had a Man M12 in mind for some daft reason. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 March, 20224 yr by skomaz

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Any plans for the Lithium Oxide & hydroxide coming from the Ukraine any time soon might need a rethink.

 

Most of it comes from South America and then is refined in China, thought I read 97 %. 

 

The 21st century is the Asian century. 

 

This is the last century when Western countries will be of much significance at all. 

 

Putin knows this and is going to culture his relationship with PRC particularly but also several other Asian countries from Turkey to Indonesia. 

 

China bought up lots of the S. American mining ops. The Chinese are the ones that seem to be steaming ahead producing EV vans and car at full throttle whilst Western countries struggle with deliveries. They messed up their supply chain big time. 

8 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Just realised we're at cross purposes...   I looked at your video again and the bus IS an eCitaro which can come with LMP batteries as I said...   So we are actually talking about the same thing!

 

Hence apologies for my mistake...   I think I had a Man M12 in mind for some daft reason. 

 

 

 

 

 

No problemo. 

The winner is inner city pollution, tyre pollution apart, and therefore public health improvement we can hope to see. 

I do genuinely find all this stuff interesting, but as I've said previously in this thread, it was really about the hybriddidys and there is a battery thread with 90 pages already in it! 

So back on topic, here is Harry of 'Harry's Garage' fame talking about PHEVS compared to EVs and ICE running on sustainable fuels. 

 

There is a flaw in his figures relating to the PHEV, but it's an interesting look at the different tech and how it impacts the environment. I like Harry and his videos, because they tend to be a no nonsense approach to things and he is a genuine 'car guy', not prejudiced against any particular form of transport. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

We have been told repeatedly, that batteries which are made of more environmentally friendly substances are "just around the corner" and solid state batteries are "just around the corner" but if they are, they don't seem to in anything I can see at the moment. 

 

Burning hydrogen can be made very friendly, with the NOx being controllable and of a very low order, with a bit of care and attention. You won't get high performance engines that way (see JCB), but it's early doors for that specific use of technology, unlike batteries and electric motors. An advantage of making hydrogen is it can be stored comparatively easily and stored for a very long time. It is also a quick way to replenish the energy store in your car. 

 

But this is not Hybriddidy...   at the moment 

LFP batteries, 4680 batteries.

Solid state batteries, I agree.

 

Problem with burning is that there always seem to be more harmful stuff discovered over the years. First, it was CO2, then particulate and NOx. If/when we find a way to observe the truth behind string theory, is there more bad stuff when we turn the "super" microscope towards the exhaust? Only way is to stop burning, stop using this ancient method to get thermal energy (whereas we actually wanted kinetic energy).

 

I would argue batteries and electric motors have a loooong way to go for optimisation. Whereas ICE tech is already near fully optimised. Yes, combusting hydrogen is different for emissions control, but how much more efficiency can we gain from the same ICE method? Green hydrogen has already lost 50% of its source energy, ICE method for kinetic energy are generally only 20-40% efficient.

 

There is of course valid use-case for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles as range extender for EV's in the future (eg. those who still want <5min refuel). As said, the ease of mass storage would make it excellent for many applications: might be key for long haul flights, shipping industry or electricity supply across season cycles.

 

 

 

As for PHEV, my problem with them is how they always fire up ICE when full power is demanded from kick-down. The parallel PHEV design often has a underpowered electric motor designed more for assisting the holy ICE.

My ideal PHEV, same as hydrogen fuel cell EV above, is the BMW i3 REx. Enough battery for most journeys. Range extender for longer trips and fast refuel. Zero compromise on the EV driving experience with full sized EV motor and kick-down does not revert back to the "stone ages" 😜

 

Case in point: 2022 Range Rover PHEV: "141bhp electric motor and a 38kWh battery (with a usable capacity of 31kWh)"

That's just tiny bit better than 2016 Nissan Leaf level EV parts, in a heavy Range Rover with total power of 500 bhp.

 

 

That video in the post above at 14:48, did the guy try to steal the parking spot/charge point when the car is clearly going to reversing into it?

I wouldn't trust such guy.

Also, we cannot wait for 100% renewable electricity before adopting EV's. Unlike change of fuel, today's EV will be compatible with future's 100% green electricity supply. So why wait?

Edited 13 March, 20224 yr by wyx087

I think this thread might have run its course as it's drifting into territory covered by other threads. It's all very interesting, but probably a little unnecessary now there is plenty of threads for EVs, emissions and the like, in this section. 

 

Thanks for the replies guys.