Superb II intermittent driver's door electrical problem

[Othen]

I have had no significant problems with my 2013 Superb II Elegance estate diesel since buying it new, until this morn having dropped my son at school and driven into town for some breakfast; I returned to the car to find the mirrors (which I'd left in the folded position) would not return to their normal places when I turned on the ignition. I then found that none of the power functions to the driver's door would work (central locking, electric windows etc). Everything else worked, so I drove it rather gingerly (no door mirrors) about a mile to a safe car park, pulled over to try everything again. I turned off the car for long enough to find the handbook and look up where the fuse-box was located, tried the ignition again and everything worked: mirrors, central locking, windows... so I had an intermittent fault thought I.

 

I drove the motor home with no problems, power seems to have returned to the driver's door except that the mirrors no longer retract remotely from the key (but they do when switched from inside the car) and when I give the unlock button on the key fob a very long press only the passenger's window and rear windows wind down... so the problem is not entirely intermittent. I've tried the same with the spare (otherwise new and unused) key and get exactly the same result.

 

 Any ideas about how to diagnose this fault?

 

Alan

[a666andy]

Sounds like a very common door wiring loom issue.

 

Try a search as there are plenty of threads already. Sorry, I'm on my mobile and the search options are not as good

[a666andy]

Best i could find from the phone

 

 

 

Edited 22 April, 2022 by a666andy

[Othen]

Many thanks a666andy, that gives me a start point. I'll do some reading tomorrow.

 

Alan

 

 

3 hours ago, a666andy said:

Best i could find from the phone

 

 

 

 

[Othen]

After a bit of reading this seems to be the best guide:

 

I'll have a look in the morn and decide on the best strategy.

 

I tried the door again later this afternoon and found all functions had returned back to normal: the mirrors would now fold up controlled from the key fob and so on. I suspect the issue will probably return though.

 

Alan

[gav_is_con]

 

Such a regular topic on this forum. Try some more reading. 

[Othen]

Thank you gav_is_con, those links are all very useful.

 

I'd already read the first one and more of less concluded I must have a broken wire or two in the door hinge part of the loom. Almost all functions have returned this morn - except the mirrors parking on command from the key fob (the function still works from the door switch), but I doubt very much the issue will fix itself and is likely to return.

 

I'll pull the rubber grommet off today and have a look, but there probably isn't much point taking it all apart until I have a solution in place. It would seem I have 3 possible courses of action:

 

a. Repair any broken wires individually with solder or crimps and heat shrink. This wouldn't really cost anything, but I wonder whether there would be room for repairs in situ. I suppose it might work if there is just one broken wire.

 

b. Use a repair patch like this one from eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284777707436

 

... this looks like a better solution in that it comes with a new connector to the chassis loom so I could put new connections somewhere inside the door rather than in the hinge area, that would give me room to use self soldering joints (much easier). Cost about £30.

 

c. Fit a new door loom from a dealer. Cost about £200. It would seem this is a tricky job in its own right and would take me longer than COA 'b'.

 

I'm inclined to go for the repair patch (COA 'b'), order the kit today and fit it when the functions of the door start to deteriorate. Any comments on my plan would be welcomed.

 

I've ordered one of these kits to remove the connector from the chassis loom from Amazon (it should arrive today):

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07S8PS4FY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

... have I bought the correct item?

 

Alan

[Othen]

... just a thought before I start snipping (one day next week I should think): will I need to disconnect the battery (and hence do I need to find the radio code) or is there a fuse that will isolate the driver's door?

 

I rather suspect there will not be a single fuse because the door incorporates a number of systems - but it is worth asking the question.

 

Alan

[Othen]

I got round to pulling the rubber grommet off the chassis plug today, and found that the thick red wire has broken, but as far as I could tell it was the only one that had severed through and through (see the first photo). I am guessing that prior to me removing the grommet it was only touching sometimes and hence causing the intermittent fault. At this point none of the functions to the door worked, I surmise the thick red wire is probably a common 12v +ve feed.

I thought it was probably worth having a go at a fix today. I managed to strip back just enough of the red insulation to allow a self-soldering joint to slide over both ends of the break, inserted a thermal shield (i.e. piece of cardboard) between the red wire and the rest of the bundle to prevent collateral damage, and very carefully melted the solder with a 175w iron. The joint had its own shrink wrap, so that should give some mechanical protection (see second photo):

The break had been close to the door end of the wire, so I couldn’t get the soldering iron close to that end.

 

Now I seem to have full functionality of the door: central locking, mirrors, windows and speakers, so this appears to be a good quick win for the time being. The wires are quite brittle, so this probably isn’t the end of the story. I have ordered the repair patch, so I think I’ll still take the door apart and fit it next weekend. I’ll report again when I do that job.

 

Many thanks for all the advice chaps,

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

[a666andy]

Nicely done, hopefully keep you going for a while

[Derbyshirebod]

11 hours ago, Othen said:

I got round to pulling the rubber grommet off the chassis plug today, and found that the thick red wire has broken, but as far as I could tell it was the only one that had severed through and through (see the first photo). I am guessing that prior to me removing the grommet it was only touching sometimes and hence causing the intermittent fault. At this point none of the functions to the door worked, I surmise the thick red wire is probably a common 12v +ve feed.

I thought it was probably worth having a go at a fix today. I managed to strip back just enough of the red insulation to allow a self-soldering joint to slide over both ends of the break, inserted a thermal shield (i.e. piece of cardboard) between the red wire and the rest of the bundle to prevent collateral damage, and very carefully melted the solder with a 175w iron. The joint had its own shrink wrap, so that should give some mechanical protection (see second photo):

The break had been close to the door end of the wire, so I couldn’t get the soldering iron close to that end.

 

Now I seem to have full functionality of the door: central locking, mirrors, windows and speakers, so this appears to be a good quick win for the time being. The wires are quite brittle, so this probably isn’t the end of the story. I have ordered the repair patch, so I think I’ll still take the door apart and fit it next weekend. I’ll report again when I do that job.

 

Many thanks for all the advice chaps,

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

You've done well to get in and do that repair in such a confined area. Like you I've found the forum search function doesn't seem very good?  Google seems to do a better forum search of the forum?

 

Though personally I think you'll have a re-occurrence at some point if not with that wire it will be with another wire breaking as others have posted in other threads. The insulation hardens and losses it's plasticity cracks and the wire work hardens until that eventually breaks due to the doors being opened and closed twisting the wires back and forth. 

 

I've replaced all the wires in the door hinge area on both front doors. The common earth to the front near side passenger door broke which meant neither of the near side door functions worked. Fortunately the wire failed with the doors unlocked so I could open the door. I found other wires that were also in poor condition. On the drivers doors one of the central locking switch wires had broken and again I found other wires in a poor condition. Also on the tailgate had to replace a length of negative feed for the same reason as the heated rear window wasn't working. It's common issue right across the VW, Skoda, Audi, Seat range with cars of this age.

 

 

Edited 24 April, 2022 by Derbyshirebod

[Othen]

37 minutes ago, Derbyshirebod said:

 

You've done well to get in and do that repair in such a confined area. Like you I've found the forum search function doesn't seem very good?  Google seems to do a better forum search of the forum?

 

Though personally I think you'll have a re-occurrence at some point if not with that wire it will be with another wire breaking as others have posted in other threads. The insulation hardens and losses it's plasticity cracks and the wire work hardens until that eventually breaks due to the doors being opened and closed twisting the wires back and forth. 

 

I've replaced all the wires in the door hinge area on both front doors. The common earth to the front near side passenger door broke which meant neither of the near side door functions worked. Fortunately the wire failed with the doors unlocked so I could open the door. I found other wires that were also in poor condition. On the drivers doors one of the central locking switch wires had broken and again I found other wires in a poor condition. Also on the tailgate had to replace a length of negative feed for the same reason as the heated rear window wasn't working. It's common issue right across the VW, Skoda, Audi, Seat range with cars of this age.

 

 

Thank you for that.

 

I agree this was probably a temporary fix. You are right, the wire, and particularly the insulation, gets really brittle with use. I suspect my driver’s door issue is not over yet; I think I’ll end up fitting the wiring patch I’ve ordered.

 

This type of issue is not confined to VAG. One on my other motor cars, a Volvo 244 (albeit now 42 years old) developed spurious electrical issues in the engine compartment. I ended up making up a new compartment loom from scratch - out of better quality wire than Mr Volvo used.

 

My Skoda Superb estate is been first class for the past 9 years (I bought it new), but I suppose it is getting to that difficult age. I like the motor car though, it isn’t worth enough to bother selling but it has only done 70,000ish miles, does 50mpg and only costs £30 to tax. I’m happy enough to do a bit more maintenance as the motor car gets older as long as it doesn’t get too expensive of course. In that respect this forum is first class - it would have taken me considerably more time to sort this problem without it.

 

Alan

Edited 24 April, 2022 by Othen
Grammar.

[Derbyshirebod]

I've read somewhere here on the forum it cost £500 in a garage for someone to have their front door loom sections replaced,  

[a666andy]

6 minutes ago, Derbyshirebod said:

I've read somewhere here on the forum it cost £500 in a garage for someone to have their front door loom sections replaced,  

Sounds excessive

 

My loom was about £120ish plus labour, not sure how much that was as mechanic was doing a service, rear hub and abs sensor all together.

[Othen]

3 minutes ago, Derbyshirebod said:

I've read somewhere here on the forum it cost £500 in a garage for someone to have their front door loom sections replaced,  

I’m pretty sure I also read that in one of the threads whilst doing my homework yesterday eve. That does not entirely surprise me: a dealer would insist on replacing the whole door loom, which I understand costs about £200/side, plus I should think a couple of hours of labour.

 

The good thing about VAG motor cars is that parts are plentiful - and there are lots of pattern parts and good used spares out there.

[Derbyshirebod]

4 minutes ago, a666andy said:

Sounds excessive

 

My loom was about £120ish plus labour, not sure how much that was as mechanic was doing a service, rear hub and abs sensor all together.

That sounds like a reasonable price. It cost me less than £30 to buy everything I needed to replace all wiring in the door hinge areas for all 4 doors though I've only done the 2 front doors. Though granted it takes longer replacing the wires than buying a new door connector repair kit at around £31 each.  I've only checked one of rear doors which also has cracked insulation. As all my kids have their own cars I rarely have rear passengers these days so I'll get round to it eventually when I feel like it.

 

[Othen]

8 hours ago, Derbyshirebod said:

That sounds like a reasonable price. It cost me less than £30 to buy everything I needed to replace all wiring in the door hinge areas for all 4 doors though I've only done the 2 front doors. Though granted it takes longer replacing the wires than buying a new door connector repair kit at around £31 each.  I've only checked one of rear doors which also has cracked insulation. As all my kids have their own cars I rarely have rear passengers these days so I'll get round to it eventually when I feel like it.

 

 

8 hours ago, a666andy said:

Sounds excessive

 

My loom was about £120ish plus labour, not sure how much that was as mechanic was doing a service, rear hub and abs sensor all together.

I thought I'd read that the new loom part was £200/side with the VAT whilst doing my homework? £120 is not so bad, but I also read that it is tricky to fit (if I remember correctly the connection to the door lock)? I wonder how much labour the dealer charged for fitting (I appreciate that may be difficult to discern amongst the other items)?

 

I suppose I could have bought just the connector and a couple of gauges of wire - then labelled them according to the colours and so made a DiY kit for perhaps a tenner per side. The kit I've ordered was £27 (inc VAT and delivery) though, so my judgement was that the convenience made it the sensible way to go. If what I've read  is right it may not take me much longer to fit the kit with 10-15 self-soldering joints as it would to take the door apart and fit a new loom.

 

My Superb estate may not have any problems with the other door looms: it is a one owner, one driver motor car with only 70,000ish miles, so the other doors have not been opened as much. I was not particularly going to bother checking unless I get a problem. I'll probably keep this motor car until it becomes too expensive to maintain - I'm hoping for at least 15 years use, so I expect little jobs like this will come up from time to time (and when they do this forum is excellent).

 

I wonder, does anyone have a wiring diagram for my motor car (2013 elegance diesel estate)? I don't need it at the moment but it would be nice to know where everything goes.

 

Alan

 

PS. I'm happy with maintaining older motor cars: my two Volvos have a combined age of 101 years!

Edited 25 April, 2022 by Othen
Spelling

[Derbyshirebod]

12 hours ago, Othen said:

 

If what I've read  is right it may not take me much longer to fit the kit with 10-15 self-soldering joints as it would to take the door apart and fit a new loom.

 

 

I personally doubt you can complete an effective long term repair without removing the door cards to get access to remove enough length of the old hardened insulated cables and make a new joint away from the area of movement where the damage occurs.  The cables are taped to the rubber gaiter so cant be pulled through till you've removed the tape and to do that you have pull the gaiter  in through the door to cut all the tape off. I had at least one wire which was broken right down inside the gaiter as well as several damage cables.

 

I didn't bother re-taping the new wires to the gaiter as it made it easier to slide and adjust the wire lengths to the door pillar.

 

Yes it would have been quicker and easier buying a loom repair kit at around £30 per door. But being between jobs at the time and on a tight budget and having the time, I replaced around 240mm of all the cables on both of my front doors and made the connections where they were easy to solder and put them just behind the round door grommet where the loom goes into the door. You don't want too much excess wire inside the door as the loom passes close to the window runner

 

there are 4 wire thin wall insulated sizes.

Ø2.75mm = 2.5mm²  29 Amp

Ø1.75mm = 0.75mm²  14 Amp

Ø1.5mm closest I could find  Ø1.6mm = 0.5mm²  11Amp

Ø1.2mm  closest I could find  Ø1.4mm = 0.35mm²  7Amp

 

On my Superb SE there are 13 wires on the drivers door and 11 on the front passenger door both connectors have 28 pinouts so I don't know if the higher specification cars have additional wires?

 

 

 

[Othen]

39 minutes ago, Derbyshirebod said:

 

I personally doubt you can complete an effective long term repair without removing the door cards to get access to remove enough length of the old hardened insulated cables and make a new joint away from the area of movement where the damage occurs.  The cables are taped to the rubber gaiter so cant be pulled through till you've removed the tape and to do that you have pull the gaiter  in through the door to cut all the tape off. I had at least one wire which was broken right down inside the gaiter as well as several damage cables.

 

I didn't bother re-taping the new wires to the gaiter as it made it easier to slide and adjust the wire lengths to the door pillar.

 

Yes it would have been quicker and easier buying a loom repair kit at around £30 per door. But being between jobs at the time and on a tight budget and having the time, I replaced around 240mm of all the cables on both of my front doors and made the connections where they were easy to solder and put them just behind the round door grommet where the loom goes into the door. You don't want too much excess wire inside the door as the loom passes close to the window runner

 

there are 4 wire thin wall insulated sizes.

Ø2.75mm = 2.5mm²  29 Amp

Ø1.75mm = 0.75mm²  14 Amp

Ø1.5mm closest I could find  Ø1.6mm = 0.5mm²  11Amp

Ø1.2mm  closest I could find  Ø1.4mm = 0.35mm²  7Amp

 

On my Superb SE there are 13 wires on the drivers door and 11 on the front passenger door both connectors have 28 pinouts so I don't know if the higher specification cars have additional wires?

Thank you so much, that is all really helpful.

I certainly wasn’t implying that I might attempt this job without removing the door card! This week’s quick fix in the door hinge was a one-off and would not work with a dozen or so wires.

I have a patch kit arriving this week, but otherwise my plan is the same as yours:

a. Remove door card.

b. Snip wires to the connector.

c. Assemble new connector and wires.

d. Pull wires through to the door space.

e. Make connections within the door space (self-solder joints like the ones you used).

f. Reassemble.

The photos are particularly helpful, thank you.

alan

Edited 25 April, 2022 by Othen