6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Re weight...... the latest M3 is within 5% different to Model 3 performance.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/tesla/model-3/saloon-2016/performance-auto-4d/specs/

https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/m3-2020/m3-cs-4dr-step-auto/specs/

EV are no longer heavy when ICE cars have become bloated. The view EV are heavier is ~5 years out of date.

Absolutely.

As can be seen by which cars are hit by the Paris triple the parking price hit on cars over 1600kgs, or 2T if an EV.

BMW 330E, Merc A250e, Skoda Subherb Est Wiesel, see article below.

There are nearly a hundred EVs less than 1600 kgs. Over 300 under 2T.

Many ICE cars are over 2T, particularly Hybrids and wiesels ......

EV Database

EV Database

A comprehensive overview of all electric vehicles in the UK. Search and compare by range, make, model and price.

Autocar

Paris votes to triple parking costs for heavy cars | Autocar

Combustion cars weighing more than 1600kg and EVs weighing more than 2000kg will be surcharged

Edited 2 August, 20252 Aug by lol-lol

11 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

That M5 at 2400 kg weighs more than the i5 at 2205 kg.

https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1906/BMW-i5-eDrive40-Saloon

Got to remember BMW EV's apart from i3 are built on modified ICE platform. Wasting weight and packaging to carry mounting points for ICE. The old "EV are heavy" argument typically come from legacy ICE car manufacturers shoehorn in a HV battery on old ICE vehicle platform. (eg. Stellantis, BMW, Merc, VAG before MEB)

When comparing weight, I prefer to use EV that were made from clean-slate EV-only platform.

12 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

There are a couple of fast laps in a Tesla (Nürburgring of course :D ) that were less than successful because of these problems. Only cured after you pay another £10k to get the performance pack to prevent this.

.....In comparison to ICE car....... so are you saying you don't need to pay for performance versions of ICE car (or aftermarket mod the cooling) to gain maximum performance?

Well then, why don't you just buy a 318i instead of M3?

11 hours ago, skomaz said:

Still twice the weight of what I'm talking about though... Granted a different beast entirely but that's my point about a light and nimble feel...

Of course I agree small nimble light weight "hot-hatch" style EV doesn't exist. The HV battery still cannot compare to a small petrol engine in weight.

Closest is perhaps Renault 5, but that's still 1500 kg, probably can't drive it like a Polo GTI around corners.

55 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

That M5 at 2400 kg weighs more than the i5 at 2205 kg.

https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1906/BMW-i5-eDrive40-Saloon

Got to remember BMW EV's apart from i3 are built on modified ICE platform. Wasting weight and packaging to carry mounting points for ICE. The old "EV are heavy" argument typically come from legacy ICE car manufacturers shoehorn in a HV battery on old ICE vehicle platform. (eg. Stellantis, BMW, Merc, VAG before MEB)

When comparing weight, I prefer to use EV that were made from clean-slate EV-only platform.

.....In comparison to ICE car....... so are you saying you don't need to pay for performance versions of ICE car (or aftermarket mod the cooling) to gain maximum performance?

Well then, why don't you just buy a 318i instead of M3?

Of course I agree small nimble light weight "hot-hatch" style EV doesn't exist. The HV battery still cannot compare to a small petrol engine in weight.

Closest is perhaps Renault 5, but that's still 1500 kg, probably can't drive it like a Polo GTI around corners.

Same with the Mercedes EQC. Built on an ICE platform, propellor shaft intrudinging into cabin for no reason In the EV. So it ended up with with a weight of 2.6 tonnes for a mid sized SUV hence awful energy efficiency. Nice to have 400 hp but still compromised.

I find driving EVs that body roll is less than in ICE cars due to the lower centre of gravity. On the M5, junction 4 or 4a, there is an advisory 50 mph bend but in the EVs I find it can be taken flat out in EVs where as in the hybrids it seemed to roll more due to the higher centre of gravity. Not taken it in a boxer engined car, or vvankel, which maybe a bit better than ice cars with vertical cylindered car. Renault dealer got a couple of Alpines A110s which as a super light might be fun and it is one of the very few pure ICE cars I would still buy.

Edited 2 August, 20252 Aug by lol-lol

13 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

Also to be fair, the Taycan seems to have spent as much time at Porsche, not being fixed, as I've spent driving my Jag. The Taycan is constantly getting recalls, or failing to even start.

Is this a good time to observe that Porsche are a brand subsidiary of VAG?

1,400 Kg and lower and 130/150 ps-300 ps, or more might be enough fun for many with the right tyres & on UK roads with the 60 mph NSL. & not that high insurance cost for many.

Best plan is try before you buy, or before dismissing out of hand.

Loads of cheap used ones of all flavours coming in the next couple of years.