I have an opinion, but I wanted to get some others here.

 

The EV6 appears to being built a lot earlier than expected, so would be a MY22, rather than MY23.

Most of the changes are very minor and include:

• Optimised seats on the base spec (This doesn't affect us)
• A bit of carpet in the jumbo box equivalent to quieten it down (Easy to fix)
• Over the air updates ( I think only for NAV).
• Battery pre-conditioning when en-route to a rapid charger (Via in built NAV)

 

So the OTA, I don't care about and I am pretty certain it will come via a dealer update to enable it anyway, as the hardware is there. The seat changes wouldn't effect our car and the carpet in the jumbo box is something trivial to add, potentially even by buying the OEM part and applying it.

 

The battery pre-conditioning for rapid charging however is a bit of a bummer and by the looks of things can really make a huge difference to charging speeds for the first 15 minutes in the cold. 

 

At the moment online sources suggest there may be an update to enable this, as the car has a heater, but it's not a given and is showing as a new feature on the MY23. Without this, you have to turn off climate control, increase regen and hope the battery is warming up before you get to the charger, as otherwise the charging rate could start as low as 30kW and average 80-100kW.

Once the battery is up to 25 degrees, then it can do the full 220kW, so the summer should be fine.

 

Options are:

 

1) Walk away

2) Take the car and live with it

3) Cancel the order and order an MY23.
    If we do the latter, then there appears to be a significant price increase (£200 per month)

 

Thought on how much you think it would affect your choices.

 

Driving tends to be mostly short journeys or very long round trips (500-600 miles in a day)

The latter depends on the job as to how frequent they are, but typically it's 2-3 days a week with no destination charging or a shorter 400 mile round trip with an office stop of 4-6 hours with destination charging at 3.6Kw for 3-5 daysa week

 

All of these are doable on a single tank of diesel and a 20 minute bathroom break each way is no issue at all.

30 minutes is a push, but not a huge hardship, however even if you assume an average of 50kW charge, then you're looking at 60-80  minutes to get a 75% charge. Obviously this ignores charging will warm the battery so it might speed up, but it's a big concern.

 

If the firmware update is real, then that's great, but if not then it's a vastly different car.

 

What is anyone experience with charging rates in the real world on other cars?

 

If it were me and with that usage I'd be sticking with Diesel unless the dealer / Kia can guarantee an update in the future...   then swap out to EV at next change.

^^^ I agree.

Then when you can or want to or need to get an EV get a Polestar 2, or if a smaller car Kia Soul or the new MG when available. 

Or whatever is out and tried and tested and onto their 2nd or 3rd generation and without snagging faults that too many new launch EV's have.

I also thought that and I'm waiting for confirmation in writing that the fast charging will come as an update or not.

The car can in theory charge up to 200+ kW, but if the weather isn't right.

 

I had a look at the polestar 2 and have to say it's poor, but also the only polestar dealer is nearly 200 miles away.

The ioniq 6 looks interesting, but once bitten...

 

Everything else I have looked at is at least £200 more per month and at least a 9 month, although many with a 12 month+ estimated lead time.

The complication is that the diesel has a home to go to already, as a family member needs to replace their car.

 

The usage isn't regular currently and at the moment it's more like 1 trip a week every few weeks, but that was regular and I imagine that it will return to 2-3 days of travel a week. Hoping to convince the office to go up to 32A chargers, but there's no certainty on that.

 

 

In reality the car ordered is the car delivered as I believe there wasn't mention of a MY23 initially?

Walking away will incur a cost so ..........

Well, it doesn't look like petrol/diesel prices will be back to £1.30 anytime soon, so I would take the car. Especially when it's cheaper than all other EV options including re-buying the same car!

 

It reads very strange that the battery pre-con feature isn't going to come as OTA update. Does this mean MY22 will never get OTA NAV updates? Perhaps it's a new NAV system on MY23? I don't think it will affect you too much, perhaps 10min at most.

Thought I would mention again Fast Charging, whilst convenient, harms EV's batteries..........

Not fast charged my Zoe yet in its first 7k miles and will try and use AC chargers during travelling rather than DC.

Even Kia state, tucked away on their website, one can lose 10% of one's battery capacity being a fast charging  user rather than a slow, presumably 7/11 kw.

I see German chargers are some of the new super banks are set to supply at 35 kw which is a fair rate which will not damage the EV's car battery but one can tweak it up to over 150 kw but one pays 59 Eurocents rather than 39 Eurocent per kw.  

 

Really fast charging, not something I think is wisely pursued unless it is filling other electrical charge holders other the Lithium batteries.  I would be happy with the 22 spec though I do not understand the limitation for OTA on the 22 Kia.  Zoe is uploading maps, software everything OTA I understand.  

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.kia.com/dm/discover-kia/ask/how-to-extend-ev-battery-life.html#:~:text=Avoid using fast charging&text=However%2C it presses so much,years of using fast charging. 

3. Avoid using fast charging

If your batteries are soon-to-be die out, using a fast-charging is a great convenience. However, it presses so much current into the batteries in a short period which strains your EV battery and wanes them faster. While it is hard to notice its degradation, eight years of standard charging will give you 10% more battery life compared to 8 years of using fast charging.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

The language needs sorting.

 

35 kW sounds OK. 

 

In the UK a Fast Charger is a SLOW charger.  7 or 11 kW maybe. AC.  a RAPID Charger is maybe a 50 kW DC charger.

A QUICK Charger might be 100 / 100 plus DC. 

A Super Quick might be a 350 kW charger. 

 

Convenience is not what it is about it is getting your battery with power in and getting going. 

Not everyone has several hours available to park the car someplace that is not where they are going to or want to be. 

 

A 7 kW charger or even a 11 or 22 kW charger putting charge into a 80 kW battery is going to be fine for those not on a journey and needing to get on with getting someplace. 

 

HGV EV Charging Bays might eventually come to the UK Public Charging Hubs.

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

20 hours ago, john999boy said:

In reality the car ordered is the car delivered as I believe there wasn't mention of a MY23 initially?

Walking away will incur a cost so ..........

The car ordered stated the feature already existed and made no mention at all of subject to conditions (which are almost impossible to achieve in UK) in the brochure. Less than 50% nearly always would be beyond poor.

 

Cost to walk away, less than one month rental and probably nothing.

Edited 19 July, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

The issue I have is that in winter 6 hours of driving might not become 6 to 7, but more like 8+. That would be a killer.

 

Also @lol-lol the Kia battery is 800V, so 200kW is not actually any worse than a much lower speed on a 400v architecture.

 

TBH it’s not the 200 I need, but I need to know it can average around 100 even in winter.

Edited 19 July, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Kia battery is 800V, so 200kW is not actually any worse than a much lower speed on a 400v architecture.

This is more a marketing ploy than actual benefit. Reason is that the C rating for battery cell is more important for long term battery health. The 800v cars have similar size battery to 400v cars. So the C rating for the cells will be similar.

Only benefit for 800v is being able to pull and push more power through the pack as a whole when batteries are much bigger to be able to take that kind of punishment (or the promised solid state type in the distant future) So for charging network, 800v and backwards compatible to 400v makes total sense.

 

If you want to average 100 kw charging, you'd be looking at arriving at low state of charge (10%-20%). How reliable are your planned stop locations? Does it have enough chargers for broken charger to not be a problem?

The thing is when I'm looking to use the fast charger, I'll be going from 10-20% through to 80%.

Otherwise it would just be on the slow charges.

 

The charging locations are likely to be large hubs on these stops, hence the average of 100kW.

 

Obviously if I'm topping up from 40/50%-80 then I know it's going to be slower most of the time.

On an ionity 350kW charger however, when up to temperature the car should be able to pull 100kW too.

 

My issue is not that I'm not going to get a flat 220kW, but more that if the car is doing say 30-40kW, it's 1.5hrs to 80% from 5% not 20-30 minutes.  Other 400V/100kW cars will get more than 30-40kW in the winter surely?

 

EDIT:

Basically I need to know if the car has any battery heating or not. I ordered a heat pump, so it's hopeful, but not certain.

With the heater it might be a software upgrade or at least it will get quicker as it heats and charges.

Some of the Ioniq 5s (without the eco pack) appear to have no battery heater at all and the batteries seem to generate almost no heat when charging, such that the pack doesn't heat up enough to go faster until the SOC means the charge goes slower.

 

Edited 19 July, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

I’ve had an informal conversation that Kia stated publicly all EV6 in uk have winter mode and the battery heater.

 

Still waiting for a formal confirmation and also about the preheating update, but as long as the car has a battery heater the rates from cold would likely average high enough to be 10-80 in 30-40 minutes. That would be something you could live with.

So ignoring the rumours and things that have been said by various Kia/Hyundai execs and other countries the official line is:

 

 - MY22 has a battery heater

 - MY22 won't get pre-heat en-route to a charger as this is MY 23 everywhere.

 

The rumours say the latter isn't true if you have a battery heater and a heat pump (which I do).

 

I have a feeling that since the car has a battery heater, even if it was cold, it will draw power from a charger to heat the battery once you plug in and whilst it will start slow, it will speed up (Unlike the i5's that don't have a heater).

 

Do others agree with my understanding there?

If so then actually if you turn off cabin heating and turn up regen when you're about 15 minutes from your fast charger it might actually start at a decent speed and get warmer/faster due to the heater.

 

Thoughts appreciated as IMHO that's a heck of a lot better than the 35kW average on cars without battery heaters

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I have a feeling that since the car has a battery heater, even if it was cold, it will draw power from a charger to heat the battery once you plug in and whilst it will start slow, it will speed up

That's certainly my understanding of how Tesla does it, if you didn't navigate to a supercharger, from studying TeslaBjorn videos. 

 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

If so then actually if you turn off cabin heating and turn up regen when you're about 15 minutes from your fast charger it might actually start at a decent speed and get warmer/faster due to the heater.

Not sure I follow. If there's no software linkage between Nav and battery heater, how does how does it know you are 15min out and how does it know when to start the battery heater? 

 

Max regen and driving like a mad kangaroo will certainly help heat up the battery slightly. 

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

That's certainly my understanding of how Tesla does it, if you didn't navigate to a supercharger, from studying TeslaBjorn videos. 

 

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Not sure I follow. If there's no software linkage between Nav and battery heater, how does how does it know you are 15min out and how does it know when to start the battery heater? 

Not it, but the mk1 human driving.

Apparently turning up regen and disabling cabin heating (with a heat pump) increases heat from regen charging and reduces heat being pulled out of the battery (via the heat pump)

 

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Max regen and driving like a mad kangaroo will certainly help heat up the battery slightly. 

 😂😂👍

Ah okay. So Kia EV6 also have the heat scavenging system as Tesla. Where it takes "waste" heat from battery to warm up battery. Then yes, turn off/down cabin heating will make sure heat is preserved in the battery.

Honestly Kia appear not to know their arse from their elbow.

Some countries saying MY22 gets it, others saying no only MY23.

Customer services says can't you just wait for a MY23 car, when I said I'm happy to but dealer wants 50% extra per month they just go quiet.

 

The car was originally going to be delivered as a MY23, so I'm just a bit hopping mad they pulled it forward and didn't ask.

Totally sick of it and if this goes south, then I don't think I'll be revisiting a Kia/Hyundai dealer any time in the near future.

 

 

Seems like pretty standard disconnect between dealer and manufacturer.

 

Dealer is interested in shifting whatever cars they get, in their tiny corner of the market. You happen to be matched to a car without good communication regarding model year features. Something I doubt dealers have clear understanding. Whereas the manufacturer don't know of your individual case and doesn't give a flying monkey as long as cars are delivered to dealers.

 

The sooner we can get rid of this dealership model the better. I'm tired of them being the gatekeeper to my access to car manufacturers.

And both claim to be speaking to Kia Korea.

 

One thing I will say, if such a key feature was denied even though all the hardware is there in favour of keeping it for the new MY then it shows how backwards a company model is. At which point they’ll get killed by the market a few years down the line.

1 mile from me is a KIA Dealership with salespeople and staff that know the cars, know their business and give a damn about customers and selling and getting return customers.

It makes a big difference when staff actually stay in the motor trade for years and do a good job. 

 

@cheezemonkhai

Maybe they would be getting on better if they were speaking to Kia Europe and they spoke to Korea. 

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

1 mile from me is a KIA Dealership with salespeople and staff that know the cars, know their business and give a damn about customers and selling and getting return customers.

It makes a big difference when staff actually stay in the motor trade for years and do a good job. 

 

@cheezemonkhai

Maybe they would be getting on better if they were speaking to Kia Europe and they spoke to Korea. 

 

Our dealer is a mile from us and they are trying. They are speaking to product specialists, who are speaking to higher up, who are getting answers from Korea (so they say). A german colleague who has one, has been told by their dealer after a complaint that there is definately an update for the MY22 cars.

 

Currently with such long wait times for everything, I'm on the fence, however if I take it and that update didn't come then they will only get to screw me and anyone I talk to once.

 

 

 

Sorry to say, I've bought enough tech products: don't trust any promised feature update unless it is written in black and white on a signed paper. Even then, expect delays. 

10 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Sorry to say, I've bought enough tech products: don't trust any promised feature update unless it is written in black and white on a signed paper. Even then, expect delays. 

 

Which is exactly where I am.

It was a stated feature, but now it’s on MY23 and an update it coming.

 

That’s why I’m on the fence.

Another delay and now it might not come with charging cables or a granny charger any more. FFS!

 

Seriously tempting to tell them to stick it or just buy it cash, then immediately sell it for a couple of k over RRP.