They are still trying to work out the figures to get them to suit their needs, the inflation rates when the £400 credit is worked into things and all the rest of whatever.

 

If the Average Duel Fuel household is paying double what they were last year and it is to be £200 a month ish with the new price cap. 

then they were surely only paying £100 a month last year.

 

That does not sound like an 'Average Dual Fuel Household to me'. 

 

........

Double what it went to in April 2022 then. 

 

Edited 8 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

34p for lecky, 10.3p for Gas..................................................

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-bills-support/energy-bills-support-factsheet-8-september-2022#:~:text=The average unit price for,on time for 1 October.

If you’re on a standard variable tariff

The average unit price for dual fuel customers paying by direct debit will be limited to 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

Hum, I wonder what will be the daytime rates for Octopus Intelligent. I want to switch for longer cheap periods. 
 

So cheaper for me to run electric heater in bedrooms during 0:30-4:30 Go tariff at 7.5p 100% efficiency than central heating at 10p 90% efficiency. 

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

34p for lecky, 10.3p for Gas..................................................

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-bills-support/energy-bills-support-factsheet-8-september-2022#:~:text=The average unit price for,on time for 1 October.

If you’re on a standard variable tariff

The average unit price for dual fuel customers paying by direct debit will be limited to 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

The other thing to note from that document is that the increased standing charges are NOT being reduced:

 

Average standing charges will remain in line with the levels set by Ofgem for the default tariff cap from 1 October, at 46p per day for electricity and 28p per day for gas, for a typical dual fuel customer paying by direct debit.

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Hum, I wonder what will be the daytime rates for Octopus Intelligent. I want to switch for longer cheap periods. 
 

So cheaper for me to run electric heater in bedrooms during 0:30-4:30 Go tariff at 7.5p 100% efficiency than central heating at 10p 90% efficiency. 

 

I have heard of different cheap hours with Octopus, some EV owners could opt for longer hours ie 5 hours or so and their is still an Economy 7 tariff I gather but the cheap rate is much higher than the 7.5p per kWh.

 

Looking at Octopus Agile that have been extremely few half hour slots that the price drop anywhere close to sub 10p per kWh so much that it looked that Octopus GO was vastly superior in cost saving.  All went Pete Tong at around mid June and since then I have seen none of the hyper cheap or free timeslots on those tariffs that track actual market prices plus the handling charge. 

 

44 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

The other thing to note from that document is that the increased standing charges are NOT being reduced:

 

Average standing charges will remain in line with the levels set by Ofgem for the default tariff cap from 1 October, at 46p per day for electricity and 28p per day for gas, for a typical dual fuel customer paying by direct debit.

 

Indeed and this is a shameful situation that low users in mainland GB, not NI as they do not mostly have a Standing Charge I gather and the full cost is just in the kWh rate, as this massive hike in Standing Charges which is much do to Government incompetence in who they allowed to become energy providers.

It should be that energy providers could only offer rates which are within the energy contracts they have secured and that they have sufficient insurance to cover energy supplier failure.

 

The price for one's first kWh of the day is effectively going to be the best part of a quid, standing charge and one kWh cost, ie enough power to run a 3 bar 3 kWh electric fire for 20 minutes.

 

Shame on you Con government.

 

£2,500 cost to user, considering the Cons have kept the 5% VAT, the VAT element is £120, so by not zero rating the VAT the Cons are only giving us £280 of our own money across the 6 months ie £46.67 a month net for the winter months whilst collecting the 5% VAT in the summer months and clawing back much of the £47 a month they are giving us as the average user is going to be paying about £40 in VAT during the summer so further reducing what it is actually costing the Con government even less which is largely due to their total lack of investing in gas storage and nuclear power plants.

 

 

8 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

I have heard of different cheap hours with Octopus, some EV owners could opt for longer hours ie 5 hours or so and their is still an Economy 7 tariff I gather but the cheap rate is much higher than the 7.5p per kWh.

 

Looking at Octopus Agile that have been extremely few half hour slots that the price drop anywhere close to sub 10p per kWh so much that it looked that Octopus GO was vastly superior in cost saving.  All went Pete Tong at around mid June and since then I have seen none of the hyper cheap or free timeslots on those tariffs that track actual market prices plus the handling charge. 

 

Yes, I just missed the Go tariff that is 7.5p/30p. Have to use 35p in July.

 

There is also "Intelligent Octopus", where with a compatible car or charger, you hand over control of car charging to Octopus. Tell them what percentage at what time you need the car, and they take care of the rest. You get 6 hour slot 11:30pm to 5:30 guaranteed at 7.5p, in addition, if Octopus deems beneficial to the grid or you need the charge, they will also grant more cheaper period and remotely get the car charged outside cheap periods.

https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/

 

For me this is the right tariff. Because I can only get 35% over 4 hour period for my Tesla. My drive to work will use 20-25%. So I need to recharge every single day if I have to go to office all weekdays and weekends come home with empty battery and need full for next weekend.

Why has bottled LPG not risen in price if it comes from petroleum?

 

The 11kg propane bottles heating my current abode (caravan) in winter I thought were really expensive at €29.99 per pop but I have just worked out that it costs 19.4cts per kwh and electricity (far cheaper in France due to the government intervention) is 18.5cts so taking into account the standing charge the propane is cheaper.

 

Something has to be wrong when propane is cheaper per kwh than electricity and its far cheaper for a business to use a generator for electricity even with the high fuel prices than to use mains electricity.

It does not come from petroleum / gasoline, it is a product that comes from the refining oil just like petrol, diesel, paraffin, kerosene, tar.

Comes from refining at different times in the process.   It has the lowest density. 

http://wlpga.org/about-lpg/what-is-lpg/the-story-of-lpg

http://wlpga.org/about-lpg/what-is-lpg/where-does-lpg-come-from

See Bio LPG. 

 

About 30-40 years ago there were lots of taxis in Dundee that had LPG conversions because the council gave grants and LPG was plentiful and cheap.

Those days are coming back.

http://lowemissionzones.scot/news/more-than-1-million-awarded-to-taxi-owners-for-vehicle-retrofitting

 

 

When i ran LPG in V8's it was half the price of petrol and i did not use twice as much and had engines that did not need petrol to run.

LPG has a high octane.  Engines built with high compression can perform very well and there are sports cars running LPG. 

When i bought at Asda with an Asda Credit card that gave 2 pence a litre off then that was fine on litre of LPG.

The UK budgets putting a penny or 2 on a litre was costing though.  

£1 a litre of petrol and 50 pence a litre for LPG, i last bought when it got to 70 pence a litre and ASDA took pumps out.

The beauty was Farms used it in Grain Driers etc and it was not like Red Diesel, no markers in it. 

 

http://v8engines.com

 

http://v8wizard.com/PHOTO_GALLERY/Orange-110-rpi.php

Edited 10 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

On 10/09/2022 at 22:21, J.R. said:

Something has to be wrong when propane is cheaper per kwh than electricity and its far cheaper for a business to use a generator for electricity even with the high fuel prices than to use mains electricity.

Lack of demand for propane is probably what keeps the price down. It is 'cheap' compared to natural gas but I have to say your €30 price is a lot less than the UK which is £38 for 11kG bottle refill. Having said that, it has not gone up since I last bought in January. I use bottled gas for the hob. (oil for heating, no mains gas out here).

On 08/09/2022 at 15:32, PetrolDave said:

Totally agree - I doubt there's a single household in the country(ies) that actually pays the 'typical' amount, so until we know the costs/kWh and the standing charges it's impossible to know what this new 'cap' will actually mean for us individually.

It already states the average cost per kWh unless I am missing something it was approx 34p for leccy and 10.5p for gas.

If I get time I'd put the new data in a spreadsheet, but the above figures have been out for weeks.

 

On 08/09/2022 at 15:29, wyx087 said:

Kicking the can down the road, let's "borrow" more to pay for this mess. 

 

At least this means charging EV is still cheaper than petrol/diesel for 2 years..... but until we see p/kWh all this price cap/guarantee are completely meaningless. 

I've just done the sums and it's not cheaper in the EV6 vs 2.0TDI at £2/litre for my type of journeys.

If you're doing mostly town driving then yes, but as soon as you include lots of m/way and a few DC charges a week, the diesel is cheaper.

 

We've cancelled the EV, but what this does give us is time to try and get a solar set up installed after we were shafted by our installer.

Once we have that in place, I hope to have gained the use of an SS scheme, so at that point new EVs down the line will be a hopefully cheaper/better option.

26 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

It already states the average cost per kWh unless I am missing something it was approx 34p for leccy and 10.5p for gas.

If I get time I'd put the new data in a spreadsheet, but the above figures have been out for weeks.

Since the figures were changed in the Government announcement last Thursday I don't see how the up-to-date figures can have been known for weeks.

 

Even if we think before last Thursday then the media were not talking about the unit cost and standing charge, only the 'average' annual cost - them being buried on the Ofgem website is not what I would call making them 'public' (but that's a mistake many organisations make nowadays, they assume that because they've put something on their website that amounts to publicity - wrong!).

3 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Since the figures were changed in the Government announcement last Thursday I don't see how the up-to-date figures can have been known for weeks.

You are quite correct, I was multi-tasking and not reading what I wrote. What I meant to say (and didn't) was that they'd been out pretty much from the day it was announced.

 

3 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

 

Even if we think before last Thursday then the media were not talking about the unit cost and standing charge, only the 'average' annual cost - them being buried on the Ofgem website is not what I would call making them 'public' (but that's a mistake many organisations make nowadays, they assume that because they've put something on their website that amounts to publicity - wrong!).

 

Which and moneysaving export had it uot and about pretty quickly.

I do agree the Ofgem site isn't the clearest, but then they are just stating a cap, so it's up to suppliers to advise the price (which can be lower) not ofgem.

It's a hard one for ofgem, but then much of the media don't help by only every quoting an average cap.

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

Just like "whether worth to switch to economy7". There's 2 important questions for EV ownership: "whether worth it to switch to EV tariff" and "what ratio of DC rapid vs home charging makes EV cheaper". 

 

For EV tariff, someone calculated you need at least 25% during the cheaper periods. 

For DC rapid ratio, not only home charge prices, it will also depend on which network you use and their ever changing prices. I'd guestimate DC rapid need to be less than 2/3 with other 1/3 on EV cheap tariff. 

 

So as long as you don't only do 2 mile school runs, it will be worth switching to EV tariff. Then with a long enough range EV (eg. 250 any weather miles), EV will still be very cheap to run for most people as most people wouldn't need to rapid charge 500 miles on a regular basis. 

Surprisingly with the 100kW+ prices being so high and the fact that most of my journeys are 100+ each way, it very quickly gets border line.

It's far less than a third for me.

 

If you were mostly in traffic driving and some other drives on say country roads, where ICE isn't that efficient, then I would say EV would still probably be a good swap, unless you own the ICE outright.

 

Essentially if you're doing a drive where ICE is efficient right now, own your car outright and don't have solar, then I don't think an EV makes sense

If you're paying high prices on an ICE lease already, then the sums are very different and actually the EV call is much closer.

 

For me it doesn't make sense, but it might in the future.

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

I am just pretty peed off by the Big Battery EV's sitting plugged in for half or whole days at 7 kW free Supermarket Chargers, especially where there are only 4.

 

The lovely people local to me with the Grey or White Tesla, Red EV6's or Volvo Hybrid are as entitled to save money by not using your home chargers or paying 23 pence a kWh on the council chargers, but really, you are taking the pith.

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

I am just pretty peed off by the Big Battery EV's sitting plugged in for half or whole days at 7 kW free Supermarket Chargers, especially where there are only 4.

 

The lovely people local to me with the Grey or White Tesla, Red EV6's or Volvo Hybrid are as entitled to save money by not using your home chargers or paying 23 pence a kWh on the council chargers, but really, you are taking the pith.

 

I've noticed a very entitled attitude of certain types of EV driver.

Not the majority of them, but the £100k is no object types, who would previously have driven their Giant SUV, with the biggest engine and parked it in a disabled or mother and baby bay.

Nearly got wiped out by a Tesla the other day - my residential side street with parked cars so down to one lane for a hundred yard or so uphill stretch - I was already well into the one lane stretch and going uphill when a local Tesla came the other way down the hill and barrelled into the one lane section in front of me, clearly thinking I'd get out of his way by either reversing back down the hill or mounting the kerb.  He seemed most put out when I refused to do either and he had to reverse uphill and let me out.

 

Amusingly it was clear he was only using the road as a short-cut between two other roads and in doing so and meeting me had probably wasted more time than if he'd stuck to the main roads...

For me the funniest thing and the one most having me say arsenal to myself is people in EV's pulling into EV charger bays at supermarkets to just park because it says 'Electric cars'. 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

26 minutes ago, roottoot said:

For me the funniest thing and the one most having me say arsenal to myself is people in EV's pulling into EV charger bays at supermarkets to just park because the says 'Electric cars'. 

 

Ahh yes, it's the mother and baby/disabled bay types again

27 minutes ago, roottoot said:

For me the funniest thing and the one most having me say arsenal to myself is people in EV's pulling into EV charger bays at supermarkets to just park because the says 'Electric cars'. 

Yeah...... this need enforcing.... until charging points are at every space, it's not a parking spot. 

 

It's worse with PHEV drivers who don't bother learn about charging. I've had a HUGE Range Rover pull onto Ikea pavement next to the charger, it was during the petrol pump shortages. When I went and pointed out this is the pavement and awfully close to children's play area, the driver gleefully said "this is electric". I didn't bother correcting him on the fact the single Ikea charger only had CCS and Chademo, not suitable for his pointless PHEV that probably never gotten plugged in. I only pointed out this is the pavement and charging spots are on the other side, with a queue. 

 

 

Nice move by Octopus to just take the £67 from the government off one's Direct Debit.

 

No indication yet that Octopus want to raise my DD yet from its £125 a month, which they will take in full this month and I will be about £200 in credit after September usage and my DD.  So DD going down to £58 in October and onwards will be very good.  Zoe charging done twice, three or four times a week to add about 60 miles each session and now that session cost just over £1 on my little 3.6 kW charger, 4 hours at my new rate of 7.5p per kWh from Octopus.

 

Hopefully lecky standing charge to go down as Octopus have said they will charge 4% less than the government cap. 

Gas at only 10.3p per kWh should not be too painful either. 

 

Expecting my DD will have to go back up to £125 pm true, so £192 going in to my Octopus gas and lecky account but not heard if VAT is going to be suspended for domestic use ie 5% to zero, might be announced 23rd September in the Emergency Budget ?

 

 

If they could make it more confusing they would find it hard.

http://moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/08/how-energy-suppliers-will-pay-the-p400-cost-of-living-support-pa

 

Odd that with the various suppliers the Account is not just credited with the £66 then the £67. Then if people are in Credit in April 2023 they get a 'refund'.

It is like the £150 Council Tax 'Help with cost of living where in England people got £150 and not just their CT account credited with this. Some had to apply and have not done. 

Edited 22 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

I've been paying £186 pm since June-ish time when I switched to Octopus. Got over £500 in credit last bill. Happy to see the same Email that they are taking £67 off my DD. I think I'm in pretty good shape for this winter, won't have huge bill changes.

Before COVID, my DD was around £100. So less than double cost now plus 100% mileage now on electricity doesn't feel excessive at all. I'm happy to pay up to £200 pm.

 

But it's sad to see "typical household" bills go from around £1000 to £2500. Not sure why my bill hasn't increased by similar percentage.......

So i will be £4 in Credit on Monday and Eon Next will not be taking my £50 DD & crediting £16 to my Dual Fuel Account.

If i was to change the amount of my DD it would to £91.34 which is the minimum they say is required by my current usage.

 

They also say my Tariff requires me to get a Smart Meter fitted.  The benefits etc etc. 

 No benefit to me, i know how to save energy.  Just do not use much that i pay for.

 

 

 

Edited 22 September, 20223 yr by roottoot