Hi everyone,

 

Would it be possible to run the bzg engine on 40-50% ethanol?
 

 What could happen? Does anyone got experience?

 

 The ethanol in Sweden contains 15% petrol. 

That must be E85 then if it contains 15% petrol.

 

No idea about your engine.

Doubt it though.    

?

Are you trying to save money from buying E10, and are you running E10 now? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

I'd say no, I doubt it would even run properly, E85 works well on most modern turbo cars because the wide band lambda system will adjust fuelling to suit and the anti knock properties of ethanol allow much more ignition advance.

Your car is not a turbo and may not even have a wide band sensor.

Yep, no wideband on a 2009 BZG.

 

I guess you are proposing to mix partial refills of E85 and E10 or E5 to get your suggested 40-50% ethanol.

 

But why not just try it with increasing levels of fill/mix with E85 and E10 or whatever the standard petrol is there?

If it starts running badly you'll know you've pushed too far in the direction of ethanol.  Carry a spare 5 litre can of 'good' petrol so you can adjust the mix at the roadside.

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

That must be E85 then if it contains 15% petrol.

 

No idea about your engine.

Doubt it though.    

?

Are you trying to save money from buying E10, and are you running E10 now? 

 

 

 

 

 

It is called E85 yes, trying to save some money by mixing fuels, 40% mix would be great

51 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

I'd say no, I doubt it would even run properly, E85 works well on most modern turbo cars because the wide band lambda system will adjust fuelling to suit and the anti knock properties of ethanol allow much more ignition advance.

Your car is not a turbo and may not even have a wide band sensor.

What could possibly happen? That I may burn the catalytic converter? Or the lambda? 

Your main problem with high ethanol content will be lower power and fuel economy. While ethanol has higher octane than petrol, it is less energy dense so you will get less power burning a given quantity of fuel. I'm not sure if there are any chemical compatibility issues with engine or fuel system components.

32 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Yep, no wideband on a 2009 BZG.

 

I guess you are proposing to mix partial refills of E85 and E10 or E5 to get your suggested 40-50% ethanol.

 

But why not just try it with increasing levels of fill/mix with E85 and E10 or whatever the standard petrol is there?

If it starts running badly you'll know you've pushed too far in the direction of ethanol.  Carry a spare 5 litre can of 'good' petrol so you can adjust the mix at the roadside.

Sounds great, 40-50% ethanol with petrol and I would be super happy. Currently we only have 95 octane with 10 ethanol and 98 octane with no added ethanol I think. 
 

What do you mean with the BZG engine doesn’t have a wideband?

There are two main types of oxygen/lambda sensor, one with just four wires which is what yours has both pre- and post cat, then there are wideband ones with five or six wires that are a bit more controllable, giving engine management more flexibilty.  Earlier versions of the 1.2 12-valve had these more expensive 'better' sensors, but since about 2006 just the cheaper four-wire ones.

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/ethanol-damage-engine.htm

 

2 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

There are two main types of oxygen/lambda sensor, one with just four wires which is what yours has both pre- and post cat, then there are wideband ones with five or six wires that are a bit more controllable, giving engine management more flexibilty.  Earlier versions of the 1.2 12-valve had these more expensive 'better' sensors, but since about 2006 just the cheaper four-wire ones.

 

Have you tried mixing fuels before? And how far do you think this engine can manage percentage wise? Are we talking above 50% of ethanol?

No I haven't tried it, and I have no idea how far you could go. Do the experiment yourself.  

@Auxiliary?

How much less does a litre of E85 cost compared to E10 in Sweden? 

 

Are there others using it in cars like yours?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flexible-fuel_vehicles_by_car_manufacturer

 

 

The VW / Skoda UP! / Citigo 1.0 TSI in South America runs on E85.  Engine different as well from Europe where the Citigo never got a 1.0TSI engine just a MPI.

They have a bigger fuel tank in these cars than those in Europe or rest of the world so that they can run E85.

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

24 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

No I haven't tried it, and I have no idea how far you could go. Do the experiment yourself.  

As you said before it would be possible to run it at 40-50%? Is that a correct interpretation?

@Auxiliary You will know within a few km of trying it, or maybe a few meters once it gets through to the engine.

Best try with just a 1/4 tank first. 

 

?

How much cheaper is E85 to mix with E5 or E10?

 

?

Does the car run well now?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501115-occasionally-judder-at-idle-help/page/3

 

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

8 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

As you said before it would be possible to run it at 40-50%? Is that a correct interpretation?

 

No, I asked if mixing was how you were proposing to get 40-50% ethanol fuel.

7 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@Auxiliary You will know within a few km of trying it, or maybe a few meters once it gets through to the engine.

Best try with just a 1/4 tank first. 

 

?

How much cheaper is E85 to mix with E5 or E10?

 

?

Does the car run well now?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501115-occasionally-judder-at-idle-help/page/3

 

E85 is about 34% cheaper than E10

 

I am planning on trying 40% mix. Do you recon it’s to high?

Yes.

Try 20% first.

 

Did you sort out the cars judder, is there new spark plugs in?

7 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

 

No, I asked if mixing was how you were proposing to get 40-50% ethanol fuel.

Alright, do know the capabilities of driving on a higher amount of ethanol using the BZG engine?

49 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

No I haven't tried it, and I have no idea how far you could go. Do the experiment yourself.  

 

2 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Yes.

Try 20% first.

 

Did you sort out the cars judder, is there new spark plugs in?

Okay 20% at first then I’ll status report. 
Spark plugs are 2 years old in 1 month. 

@Auxiliary I would not try it, and i think you should not either. 

I am not trying to encourage you, just encouraging you to think more seriously.

 

If things go wrong have you another car handy?    Best get the car serviced and running perfectly. 

39 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@Auxiliary I would not try it, and i think you should not either. 

I am not trying to encourage you, just encouraging you to think more seriously.

 

If things go wrong have you another car handy?    Best get the car serviced and running perfectly. 

I also calculated that I save very little money as well if everything works as it should. 

You're on your own, I don't think the engine will idle properly once warmed up and will feel very flat and may stall without warning.

 

Good luck.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything. - Observera att jag inte är mekaniker eller expert på någonting

 

2 hours ago, Auxiliary said:

Currently we only have 95 octane with 10 ethanol and 98 octane with no added ethanol I think. 

 

"Den 98-oktaniga bensinen kommer även fortsättningsvis endast att innehålla 5% etanol och saluförs under beteckningen E5." - https://www.gmhk.se/sv/bensin.html

 

"Fuel with an octane rating of 98 will still only contain 5% ethanol and is sold as E5 fuel." - https://www.gmhk.se/en/fuel-sweden.html#

 

"Bensinutbudet i Sverige ändras den 1/9  2021 på grund av ändringar i den så kallade reduktionsplikten.

Standardbensinen idag är 95-oktanig bensin med inblanding av 5% etanol. Denna inblandning kommer att höjas till 10%, och denna bensin går under beteckningen E10. Bilar yngre än 10 år lär kunna köra på denna bensin utan problem. För äldre bilar kan problem uppstå, framför allt i bränslepump, packningar och slangar. BIL Sweden har sammaställt en lista över ett större antal personbilsmodeller och hur de tål E10-bensin. Den listan hittar du här."

 

"Se i övrigt Transportstyrelsens information om E10." - https://www.gmhk.se/sv/bensin.html

 

"Fuel types in Sweden change on September 1st 2021 due to new regulations.

Standard fuel in Sweden today is 95 octane fuel with an admixture of 5% ethanol. This admixture will be increased to 10%; this fuel will be sold as E10. Cars yonger than 10 years old should have no problem with this fuel. Older cars may suffer probles with fuel pumps, tubing and gaskets. BIL Sweden has collected a list of vehicles and their tolerance to E10 fuel This list can be found here." - https://www.gmhk.se/en/fuel-sweden.html#

 

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.