Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Different nuts can be required if a spare steel wheel is carried on some "classics" cars that have alloy (often Minilite copies) fitted.

 

As we well know the German car manufacturers can have some 'rare' ideas, years ago a chap from one of the breakdown services told me about a Porsche two-seater model where it had a space-saver wheel but then there was no room for the full-sized wheel to be carried.  Like you I'm only going on what I was told.

 

7 hours ago, rum4mo said:

You would need to know which version/size of front brakes are on a Fabia/Polo/Ibiza before considering having a 14" as a spare, if the front brake version/size is 288mm then a 14" spare would not work - not even for a short period.

 

nta16's wife drives a Fabia MK3 90HP, so only has 256mm front brake discs. It's the more powerful cars that have the bigger 288mm front brake discs.

 

But like you say, a workaround if you get a puncture and have front brake discs bigger than 256mm, is to fit the 14" spare to the rear and then put the bigger 15"+ rim on the front.

 

Edited 10 February, 20233 yr by Carlston

2 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

nta16's wife drives a Fabia MK3 90HP, so only has 256mm front brake discs. It's the more powerful cars that have the bigger 288mm front brake discs.

 

But like you say, a workaround if you have front brake discs bigger than 256mm if you get a front puncture, is to fit the 14" spare to the rear and then put the bigger 15"+ rim on the front.

 

Yes, I fully understand that, but the advice being offered was for a Fabia MK3 which did not have an engine size/output stated - so that was why I made that comment.

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Different nuts can be required if a spare steel wheel is carried on some "classics" cars that have alloy (often Minilite copies) fitted.

 

As we well know the German car manufacturers can have some 'rare' ideas, years ago a chap from one of the breakdown services told me about a Porsche two-seater model where it had a space-saver wheel but then there was no room for the full-sized wheel to be carried.  Like you I'm only going on what I was told.

 

I think that the ability to store the removed wheel, unless fully deflated will still be an issue for too many cars - then is the sad tale about the BMW Z3 passenger who had to hold onto a damaged wheel that had been removed from that car - and it "exploded" and killed him/her - just adding that last bit as being a very good reason to fully deflate any damaged wheel/tyre.

 

Edit:- I have informed my daughter that as she chose non OE alloys for winter use, that I have placed a set of 5 standard VW Group bolts that must be used instead of the bolts presently fitted to the alloys, if she needs to use the steel spare wheel. I even painted these 5 "spare" bolts yellow - just because I thought that might help and make it easier to find any if they dropped while changing a wheel.

Edited 10 February, 20233 yr by rum4mo

33 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I think that the ability to store the removed wheel, unless fully deflated will still be an issue for too many cars - then is the sad tale about the BMW Z3 passenger who had to hold onto a damaged wheel that had been removed from that car - and it "exploded" and killed him/her - just adding that last bit as being a very good reason to fully deflate any damaged wheel/tyre.

 

Edit:- I have informed my daughter that as she chose non OE alloys for winter use, that I have placed a set of 5 standard VW Group bolts that must be used instead of the bolts presently fitted to the alloys, if she needs to use the steel spare wheel. I even painted these 5 "spare" bolts yellow - just because I thought that might help and make it easier to find any if they dropped while changing a wheel.

 

I would check that she is able to undo the wheel bolts herself. Garages often overtighten wheel bolts, and sometimes I have to stand on a breaker bar to loosen them. If you don't have a long breaker bar, you could be left stranded at the side of the road.

 

It's a lot easier to undo an overtightened wheel bolt by using a breaker bar than a ratchet handle and extension bar, as the force is directly targeted at the socket/wheel bolt. This enables you to stand on the end of the breaker bar if the wheel bolt is extremely tight. 

 

1/2" breaker bar (this one's about 18" long)

 

Edited 10 February, 20233 yr by Carlston

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

59 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

standard VW Group bolts

You've done it now you've mentioned the bloody silly VW bolts, instead of wheel studs, that gave me Sciatica which apart from totally p1ssing me off also reminds me to recommend the use of TWO Fitting Removal Alignment Tools instead of trying to balance the wheel on the *!&£%^"$ stupid centre ring.

 

Two of these should be in the car's tool kit. -

 

 

 

The VW wheel bolt system is literally a PITA to me.  🙃

 

I can laugh about it at the moment but not always for the first half to hour after getting out of bed many mornings.

 

Edited 10 February, 20233 yr by nta16
spelling

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

4 minutes ago, Carlston said:

This enables you to stand on the end of the bar if the wheel bolt is extremely tight. 

I've had to do it but it's not a good idea and potential for accident/injury.

 

I'd also prefer the extendable wheel nut wrench.   Previously extend to undo and retracted to do up but now at 88ft lb I might need to nip up extended.

 

Such a laugh to watch a tyre place use a torque wrench after a 200-300 air rattle gun.

 

Having put that for 30+ years I generally didn't always carry a/the spare wheel, jack and brace - but that's another discussion/debate. 🙃

 

6 hours ago, rum4mo said:

I think that on some Ford cars, that were supplied with a spare steel wheel, different nuts were required for use with steel wheels

 

Renault is the biggest culprit with different wheel bolts for the spare. Alloy wheel bolts have washers, Steel wheel bolts don't.

 

MB also had some where you need to use shorter wheel bolts with the spare steel wheel.

Fit the longer wheel bolts on a steel wheel to the rear and you damage the internal handbrake mechanism inside the disk as soon as you drive.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

Andy, if you want to, it might help with posts if you put more car details and location on your name plate thingy, as in -

On 10/02/2023 at 18:32, Carlston said:

 

I would check that she is able to undo the wheel bolts herself. Garages often overtighten wheel bolts, and sometimes I have to stand on a breaker bar to loosen them. If you don't have a long breaker bar, you could be left stranded at the side of the road.

 

It's a lot easier to undo an overtightened wheel bolt by using a breaker bar than a ratchet handle and extension bar, as the force is directly targeted at the socket/wheel bolt. This enables you to stand on the end of the breaker bar if the wheel bolt is extremely tight. 

 

1/2" breaker bar (this one's about 18" long)

 

She has a telescopic wheel wrench fitted with a good hex socket in place of the double ended sloppy one that tends to come with these telescopic wheel wrenches, as well as having AA membership, which hopefully she would use if her partner was not either in the car or contactable - or even contact me!

 

I can still remember the "useful" wheel wrench that was included in LR tool rolls - the handle tended to fold under the weight of your feet, that was before the screw jack might or might not stop lifting the LR up and instead chose to send the second stage section down into the ground, charming, what BMC/BL could do to a reasonable product! 

 

Edit:- no worries about wheel bolt torques, I tend to be the last person to tighten then up using a torque wrench set at 120Nm, now the wheel bolts on our younger daughter's Arona - that is an unknown, so hopefully she or her hubby would ring the AA - and not try their luck with the leak sealing gunk!

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by rum4mo

On 10/02/2023 at 18:36, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

You've done it now you've mentioned the bloody silly VW bolts, instead of wheel studs, that gave me Sciatica which apart from totally p1ssing me off also reminds me to recommend the use of TWO Fitting Removal Alignment Tools instead of trying to balance the wheel on the *!&£%^"$ stupid centre ring.

 

Two of these should be in the car's tool kit. -

 

 

 

The VW wheel bolt system is literally a PITA to me.  🙃

 

I can laugh about it at the moment but not always for the first half to hour after getting out of bed many mornings.

 

Yes, luckily for me I was introduced to wheel locator studs when I bought my VW Passat in 2000, after finding that in the tool kit area, I bought one for my wife's 2002 Polo and older daughter's Ibza - which have been moved onto their next cars, my next car came with one, and I passed one to our younger daughter  to have in the Arona as it might come in handy if they are smart enough to "waste" money on equipping that Arona with a steel spare wheel and jack etc - younger people don't tend to "waste" money on things that they might not need it seems!

 

Edit:- the other "treat" that VW had for at least some Passat owners was, there was no hole in the front hubs to fit a disc retaining screw,  so if anyone did not work out why they had included a plastic wheel locating pin in the tool kit, they could have quite a bit of "fun" stopping the wheel rotating the free to rotate disc while desperately trying to get the first wheel bolt in! 

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by rum4mo

On 10/02/2023 at 18:54, AGFalco said:

 

Renault is the biggest culprit with different wheel bolts for the spare. Alloy wheel bolts have washers, Steel wheel bolts don't.

 

MB also had some where you need to use shorter wheel bolts with the spare steel wheel.

Fit the longer wheel bolts on a steel wheel to the rear and you damage the internal handbrake mechanism inside the disk as soon as you drive.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

Audi use wheel bolts with captive free running washers on alloys, same length as all the other VW Group cars that use M14 wheel bolts, fortunately at least VW and SEAT use same plain bolts for all wheel types, ie steel or alloy.

It's the use of two that's important, after the VW "%$£&*^ wheel bolts done my back in a mate bought me a locator stud but then with an iffy back I found putting the wheel on one locating stud and the very shallow and thin hub centre was still a balancing act so I bought and use a second locating stud, which is better but still not as good as three, four or five wheel studs!!

 

(telescopic - that's the word I couldn't think of)

 

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by nta16