Hello Superb owners,

 

I own a 2017 Skoda Superb, 2.0 TSI, 4x4 with DSG DQ250 6 speed gearbox. Recently I've done a stage 1 soft modification for ECU and TCU, changed the regular paper filter with a K&N performance sport air filter and cancelled the top speed limitation of the car (V-Maxx off). The end restul is around 355hp and 480Nm of torque, with high values being reached at lower rpm, overall a good improvement for car dynamics. 

Acceleration have improved, as follows:

Stock

0-100 in 5,3s

0-200 in 18,7-19s

dashboard top speed 260 analog and digital display (the center one)

 

Vs.

 

Stage 1

0-100 lowest in 4,1s. Usually 4.3s.

0-200 15.3s

top speed 284km/h Dragy recorded and could have kept on going a little further, but there was traffic and I had to stop the test in safe conditions. I estimate around 290-300km/h.

 

I do have a curiosity for which I seek an answer and haven't been able to find any using the search function on forum.

Is there any way I can make the center digital display to show high speeds above the 260 mark (limited from factory)? If there is, anyone has a step by step guide for it? I also own a Obdeleven with Pro license, for long coding.

 

Attached is a photo with the registered speed on analog/digital dashboard vs. Dragy application (using high speed gps satellite connection with a higher accuracy than the dashboard).

 

I also checked and noted the real difference between the dashboard speed indication and Dragy at speed lower that 260. Example, for 260km/h dashboard speed Dragy indicates 252km/h, so there would be an minimum 8km/h difference. That correspond to what the producer states, limited at 250km/h. Expecting for my test above if Dragy shows 284km/h dashboard should have shown min. 292km/h.

 

Curios to also check with other 280 owners what are their real top speed.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

speed on dashboard is calculated by wheels rotation

instead apps on smartphone shows by GPS, what is closer for true

 

on my previous 2016. 220ps offset were +4km for each 100kmh on dashboard

with stock tire size 215/55r17

and just +2km with custom tire size 225/55r17

 

on my current 2023. 280ps i made small corrections by OBDEleven

 

module:

    Control unit: 17 Dashboard
    System description: KOMBI
    Software number: 3V0920790H
    Software version: 6220
    Hardware number: 3V0920790H
    Hardware version: 526
    ODX name: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBA0

 

changes:

Wheel circumference 1
17 Dashboard
Long coding
orig -> 05A5001AFF8C000A0188734B0001000800600000
new -> 05A50019FF8C000A0188734B0001000800600000
or
--> Wheel circ.:
orig -> Version 3
new -> Version 2

Wheel circumference 2
17 Dashboard
Long coding
orig -> 05A5001AFF8C00080188634B1001000800600000
new -> 05A5001AFF8C000A0188634B1001000800600001
or
--> Wheel circumference 2:
orig -> Version 1
new -> Version 2

 

result:

 

 

Thank you for your answer Martini, I shall check the wheel circumference on mine to. This might help to improve the problem with difference between dashboard speed and gps speed, making it closer.

 

The other problem however is not affected by this change I suppose. I want to make the dashboard capable of showing speeds greater than 260km/h (only the center digital dashboard). I know for sure that the car travels at higher speed than that, looking at the rpm that goes higher than in the past and using Dragy tool. It would be nice if there was any option to also see it directly on dashboard tho. Anyone knows an option for this? 

 

Thanks,

For Stage 1 it is pretty quick. Not sure how heavy it is, what equipment you have. Mine is usually 4.4 0-100 and 4.2 best, with 15.5 0-200 best, but usually 16s.

 

I tried once to pull past 250, fortunately I had some gps app running. As my tuner said limiter is removed i thought it will show more than 260, so I was surprised it does not go beyond 260. I did not pushed it to the limit, since it was long bend and not so smooth asphalt and also my rear bumper wants to fly away, since plastic holders in the corners are broken. When I stopped corner of bumpers were 10-15cm opened on both sides, it would for sure fly away with more speed and rear wiper arm was raised. 

But top speed for dq250 is not 300km/h, it would need to go to past 6700rpm in 6. gear which is not possible since you have power drop earlier than 6000.

I think 285 gps it top, you will not make anything more except going downhill. And you need to be careful with this IS38 trying to make top speed as it becomes really hot.
 

Yes, it is very quick for stage 1 with only an air filter as hardware upgrade. For such a big car it's impressive, a real sleeper. 

I've used Michelin Primacy summer tires with dimensions 235/45/R18, around quarter of fuel tank, no other items in the car, morning, decent weather conditions, quite low traffic. 

The stock turbo it's known to not be the best, hope it will survive. I don't plan to use it to the max tho, top speed pulls are rare and not for a prelonged time. 

 

I've also recorded the above mentioned, below some links:

 

0-100 in the regular ~4.3s

 

 

0-100 in the lowest achieved 4.1

 

 

And the top speed attempt.

It went to 284 and as far as I know and felt it would have gone faster, not sure how much faster. I approximated the 290-300 gps value, but even 285 is more than enough for this car. Maybe not. Do you have a link with gear ratios and speed values for DQ250? I suppose it is related to what the engine would be able to offer regarding the rpm. Mine is able to change gear even at 7k rpm in lower gears, and on this top speed attempt I've reached around 6300rpm.

I also had an top speed attempt in which my rear wiper was flying, I had to stop and put it back on. 

 

 

 

 

I've returned the Dragy tool, since it will be no longer used, but I do trust it for measuring performance. 

 

 

 

 

The Dyno graph for stage 1 ECU and TCU before fitting the sport air filter, 100+ petrol used.

I was amazed to see that stock it delivered ~300hp while the producer states 280hp. That alone was impressive. 

 

Now with the new air filter I suppose there should be between 5-10hp increase and maybe some Nm of torque which will lead to ~355hp. To bad I haven't fitted the filter prior to tune. I've seen similar cars going all the way up to 370-380hp with stage 1 but with similar or worse 0-100 or 0-200 times. My tunner kept in safe margins and realiability was also important. 

 

Also fuel consumption have improved after tunning, dropped down with ~0,5l urban and 1l extra urban. The best I'm getting now is around 12l/100km in city and 6,7l/100km outside, trying to be as economical as possible. If I drive it normal it's around 12-13 in city and 7-8 outside. Happy with these figures to.

 

 

At 1750 rpm speed is 80km/h. I think speed difference is around 3-4%.
252 km/h speedo is at 5500rpm (I looked at some videos I have).
So, theoretically at 6300rpm it is 275-280 km/h real speed, 288km/h speedo.

 

It is interesting your launch is at 3300rpm, mine is close to 4000rpm which is standard. Maybe it makes a difference. I see 60ft time is what makes difference. 1.84, I am struggling around 2.0s.

12.09 on 1/4 is fast, mine is 12.2-12.4s

 

My tuner told me that 370-380 Stage 1 is not possible on our cars, which have the same engine as Golf 7R. Golf 7.5R with 7 speed gearbox, yes. Something is different.
Intake elbow is most restrictive, I think filter does not ad 5-10hp, maybe 2-3 top. And standard airbox is sufficient even for Stage 2.
For some increase in power you need either intercooler or downpipe, or preferable both.

One thing is what kind of equipment you have in a car, because it brings weight.
You have standard cloth seats I see, heated as well.
Mine are leather ones, with cooling fans, 220V socket, virtual pedal, heated windshield (as yours), 19" summer wheels, DCC, so probably gained some weight compared to yours.
 

Weight counts. You can just look at the Golf 7R and see how fast it is with the Stage 1.

I have measured mine and it is 1720kg with me (85kg) and 1/4 of tank. On other scale was 1751kg with fuel on reserve and guy probably had 100kg. So, 90% of fuel just car is 1670-1690kg.

I have been on 1/4 race weekend ago. Track is little bit slippery at the start and my ET time was around 12.9, but I tried to put octane booster and removed spare wheel, tools and some stuff from the boot (30kg maybe) and time went down to bellow 12.8. consistently.
Also on training session every race was slower and slower, due to heat soak. So intercooler would be beneficial for this.

On my Dyno graph, technician did not pushed in high rpm in first run. Second one he pushed more and third one too, but intake temperature just went up. I assume it is close to 355hp, as second run it did 351hp.
This is done on our "100octane" fuel in Serbia, which is crap.

Thanks for your detailed reply, nice we can trade info on similar cars and improve our knowledge.

I shall make a point by point reply.

 

1. You have the newer Superb with 7 speed DSG gearbox? Mine is, as per attached photo, at 5750rpm for 260km/h dashboard speed (252km/h GPS speed - Dragy) with DSG DQ 250 6 speed. The newer DSG has different gear ratios and also is capable to withstand a little bit higher values of torque. It is a good upgrade. 

 

2. My launch control was at 4000rpm stock and my tuner set it to around 3250rpm now. I don't know the reason, didn't asked. I have never ran into trouble with launch, it is always flawless and no wheel sleep occurs. The 4x4 systems definitely helps in here, even if it is just a Haldex type. Also good quality tires count.

 

3. I haven't really asked the tuner for what power output my car could go. They had a configurator on their site that mentioned a gain up to 365hp (of course depending on car's health, milage, etc.). I've mentioned 370-380 values because I've seen YouTube videos of others that state they have that amount, like in below example:

 

 

 

3. The car is pretty well equiped, as per most 280 Superbs. I doubt the equipment that you mentioned would make a big difference in weight, but I have never scaled mine to see how much it weights. However I do weight 110kg+ so here maybe I've compensated. 😅

Jokes aside, weight is a big factor, for sure.

 

4. I use OMV Maxx motion 100+ fuel on regular base and I believe it's a good fuel, at least in my country. Never had any issues with it. Compared to standard 95 I definitely think is better. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Superb01 said:

My launch control was at 4000rpm stock and my tuner set it to around 3250rpm now. I don't know the reason, didn't asked.

 

You can see from the remapped 280HP engine's torque curve that peak torque occurs from around 3,300rpm. Hence, there would be no point launching with more revs. Launching from an unnecessarily high 4,000rpm would pointlessly fry the clutch.

 

It doesn't look like a very good remap from a top gear flexibility point of view, at normal road speeds.

 

In top gear, it looks like the remapped 280HP engine is losing a considerable amount of power and torque between 90km/h (56mph) and 120km/h (75mph) compared to the standard 280HP engine (perhaps 10% less at some points).

 

In top gear the remapped 280HP engine won't start to produce peak torque until 150km/h (93mph). The remapped 245HP engine also didn't enter its power band until ridiculously high speeds in top gear.

 

However, compared to a remapped 245HP engine, the remapped 280HP engine is worth revving out to the red line, for maximum acceleration. With the remapped 245HP engine the power peaked at about 4,500rpm. So revving the remapped 245HP engine out past around 5,250rpm was pointless, even though the red line was about 6,300rpm.

 

Edited 2 June, 20233 yr by Carlston

15 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

 

You can see from the remapped 280HP engine's torque curve that peak torque occurs from around 3,300rpm. Hence, there would be no point launching with more revs. Launching from an unnecessarily high 4,000rpm would pointlessly fry the clutch.

 

It doesn't look like a very good remap from a top gear flexibility point of view, at normal road speeds.

 

In top gear, it looks like the remapped 280HP engine is losing a considerable amount of power and torque between 90km/h (56mph) and 120km/h (75mph) compared to the standard 280HP engine (perhaps 10% down at some points).

 

In top gear the remapped 280HP engine won't start to produce peak torque until 150km/h (93mph).

 

However, compared to a remapped 245HP engine, the remapped 280HP engine is worth revving out to the red line, for maximum acceleration. With the remapped 245HP engine the power peaked at about 4,500rpm. So revving the remapped 245HP engine out to the red line was pointless, even though the red line was about 6,300rpm.

 

 

Very good and totally plausible explanation for launch control rpm. On this they have done a good job then.

 

I'm not sure I understand how you manage to corelate power and torque with speed at top gear for my car.

I'm curios to see maybe some other Dyno graphs with similar power outputs. I've trusted the tunning company, in my country they are one of the best with constant good results in drag racing (custom builts of their own cars). Overall the end result was satisfactorily for me, but I admit that this is the first car that I tune so there is room for improvement and learning. 

 

For the comparison with 245hp engine, I suppose you refer to Skoda Octavia 3 VRS, right? That is the one that has 245hp stock. 

 

39 minutes ago, Superb01 said:

 

Very good and totally plausible explanation for launch control rpm. On this they have done a good job then.

 

I'm not sure I understand how you manage to corelate power and torque with speed at top gear for my car.

I'm curios to see maybe some other Dyno graphs with similar power outputs. I've trusted the tuning company, in my country they are one of the best with constant good results in drag racing (custom builts of their own cars). Overall the end result was satisfactorily for me, but I admit that this is the first car that I tune so there is room for improvement and learning. 

 

For the comparison with 245hp engine, I suppose you refer to Skoda Octavia 3 VRS, right? That is the one that has 245hp stock. 

 

 

Yes, the 245HP engine is from the Octavia MK3 VRS, but I expect a remapped Superb MK3 2.0TSI 220HP engine would produce similar but not identical characteristics to the remapped 245HP engine.

 

I don't see why the remapped 280HP engine needs to produce less torque between 2,000rpm and 2,750rpm than the standard 280HP engine. You can easily see this by comparing the torque curves at those engine speeds, in your graph.

 

Once in the powerband, there's no doubt that the remapped 280HP engine is very powerful, and the way it holds onto its power higher up in the rev range is quite impressive...especially compared to the remapped 245HP engine.

 

It would be interesting to see the power and torque curves of a remapped 2.0TSI 190HP engine. These only remap to around 235HP, but I expect peak torque would come in at lower revs than the more powerful cars with bigger turbos.

 

Someone did post about a remapped Karoq 2.0TSI 190HP 4x4 that did 0-60mph (0-100km/h) in around 6.3-6.7 seconds. So at high revs, a lot slower than a remapped 280HP 4x4, but I expect more power low down in the rev range, and therefore better top gear flexibility.

 

Edited 2 June, 20233 yr by Carlston

This is my 220 MY17 Superb with an APR Stage 1 Hi-torque tune, and an APR DSG tune.

Did 3x runs, each run produced similar results - 220kW (300hp) 530Nm.

Outside air temp was 20°c.

U can see in the graph that the small IS20 running out of puff after approx 4800 rpm.

The IAT gets higher each time too, making the ECU limit power after a while.

 

3 hours ago, JR RS said:

This is my 220 MY17 Superb with an APR Stage 1 Hi-torque tune, and an APR DSG tune.

Did 3x runs, each run produced similar results - 220kW (300hp) 530Nm.

Outside air temp was 20°c.

U can see in the graph that the small IS20 running out of puff after approx 4800 rpm.

The IAT gets higher each time too, making the ECU limit power after a while.

 

 

Good gain in power but even more impressive in torque. Your tuner really squeezed allot of torque out of it. Realiability wise is it safe now for engine/long term? I suppose the gearbox can handle it.

Also noted that high values of torque/power ar indeed reached at lower rpms, which match with what our colleague said about a similar remaped engine on Skoda Karoq.

So the non 280 engine with different turbo hits different in those low rpms.

We're you able to measure some acceleration times/top speed to?

 

@Superb01- reliability should b fine given the DQ250 can handle up to 600Nm with software tuning alone, by dealing with clutch pressure points and shift algorithms.

Above 600 then u need to upgrade the clutch.

 

The torque values were higher than I expected.  Not sure if it's because of the Hi-torque tune combined with the DSG tune.

 

No, sadly I don't have times apart for the 0-100 and 80-120 4th gear test.

Being a FWD, traction off the line is no good with that much power. Best time was 5.9 sec.

 

The best time for the 80-120 was 3.10 secs.  Happy with this.