1.2 tsi misfires at idle

[wellpissed]

My 2016 1.2 tsi misfires almost constantly at idle (seems to be worse with hot weather) and most noticeable with a warm engine. 

 

This happens on all cylinders and my scan tool shows counts being added to the misfire count each time the engine shakes and feels like it misfires.

Almost seems like it is surging/struggling and every 3/4/5 seconds it is thrown off by a misfire. 

 

On hot days the engine will sometimes bog down and refuse to accelerate for a couple of seconds then suddenly spring to life making entering busy roundabouts challenging (I am used to the turbo lag and needing to keep revs high to get a move on - driven the vehicle over 30k miles myself). Even in 2nd gear at 3500 rpm it will still stumble as described above. Once the power comes on it moves right up to red line. 

 

Work done (relevant or not): 

Replaced spark plugs - no change. 

Clean air filter fitted - no change. 

Injector cleaning additive - no change. 

Engine remapped - no change. 

Ran momentum 99 for months - no change / possibly worse than 95 ron. 

Fuel rail re-secured (issue present before and after). 

No codes or CEL but did have a one off code relating to a shudder on shutdown - cleared and never returned. 

 

Rather than firing more parts at it, I was wondering if anyone else experienced the same? How smooth does your engine idle? 

 

At what mileage (if at all) is carbon cleaning required on these engines? 

 

 

All help appreciated 

Cheers 

[rum4mo]

Which version/code of engine is this, also what is the mileage now?

[wellpissed]

CJZC & 40k miles. 
 

[rum4mo]

Okay, so the later 16V version, it does sound a bit like you remapped it up to stage 1 to try to get rid of that problem, is that correct?

[bigjohn]

Re carbon buildup - unlikely but a compression test will show up any issues affecting running, My son has the same later 1.2tsi EA211 engine in his 2016 Octavia and does not suffer misfires at about 50k miles. I have a previous gen EA111 1.4tsi in a Superb that now has 112k miles on it with no sign of misfire.

 

The one thing not on your list of replacements is the coils packs - I would have done that ahead of a remap.

 

 

 

Edited 15 June, 2023 by bigjohn

[wellpissed]

11 hours ago, rum4mo said:

Okay, so the later 16V version, it does sound a bit like you remapped it up to stage 1 to try to get rid of that problem, is that correct?

The main reason for the remap was performance gains but I was hoping another byproduct would have been smoother idling. 

 

The map was applied in winter so the misfires weren't such a problem on the day.  

[wellpissed]

10 hours ago, bigjohn said:

Re carbon buildup - unlikely but a compression test will show up any issues affecting running, My son has the same later 1.2tsi EA211 engine in his 2016 Octavia and does not suffer misfires at about 50k miles. I have a previous gen EA111 1.4tsi in a Superb that now has 112k miles on it with no sign of misfire.

 

The one thing not on your list of replacements is the coils packs - I would have done that ahead of a remap.

 

 

 

Good to know regarding carbon build-up - I guess that can be ruled out for now. 

 

Coil packs are next on the list. Have seen some negative opinions on the "ELDOR" packs on other TSI engines (albeit the larger capacity/performance engines). 

 

It does seem odd that all 4 would go bad at the same time.  

 

Are there any specific parameters I could log over the next drive that would help diagnose this? 

 

e.g. Misfire count, rpm, throttle, etc 

 

Thanks 

wp 

[Ootohere]

What Remap was applied, who's or by who.

 

Pity that was done before the car was running correctly. 

Surprising those doing the mapping did not want an efficiently running engine before doing it.

 

Is the mapping for running on Super Unleaded 97 or 99 octane? 

 

In winter as in Late October till end March your E5 or even E10 was winter formulation in the UK and not as you are running now.

Edited 16 June, 2023 by toot

[rum4mo]

I'm sure that many of us have had different experiences, but I for one have always considered Eldor to be good enough supplier of coils, lots of coil issues, I think, started when "wise" fully developed Europe based companies, moved their factories to other including maybe not quite so well developed European and other areas of the world where "guaranteed quality" seemed to slip once the newly started up plant got its approval.

 

So far, since 2002, I've only had Eldor coil failure after maybe 80K miles and 8 years - and that was a total of 2 at different times, replaced with NOS Eldor, my wife's current car, a 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS has Eldor - Turkey, but so far so good at 40Kmiles and almost 8 years.

[wellpissed]

Very good points 

 

The remap is 95 ron capable but 9/10 fill ups have been super unleaded (typically 99) as a precaution. 

 

Having almost solely used Tescos offerings of petrol, will try another garage to rule out contaminated/subpar fuel. Looking at the above doc, Esso may be worth a try for it's detergent additive. 

 

This will take a few weeks as I'd imagine any difference wouldn't be immediately noticeable. 

 

Still curious to know if rough idling is a "characteristic" of the 1.2... 

 

[Ootohere]

Forget the detergents get the ethanol / & higher octane. Turbos love it.

(Royal Dutch Shell & V-power nitro to concerned on detergents. not consistent enough.) 

 

The Esso supplied in areas shown as 'not ethanol free' is produced and delivered by Greenergy that produces Tesco Momentum 99 and is part owned by Tesco PLC.

 

Try Sainsbury Super Unleaded 97 ron if near you, it is 97 ron Minimum, but can be higher.

Edited 18 June, 2023 by toot

[nta16]

31 minutes ago, well****ed said:

Still curious to know if rough idling is a "characteristic" of the 1.2... 

Not usually in my experience of my wife's 2015 1.2 TSI but it does depend on what the car's computer programs are up to, different engine bay noises at different times.

 

Last two fuller tank fill ups have been with Tesco Momentum 99 and the the car seems smooth to my wife and I when driving it but we might be fooling ourselves and on Fantasy Island.  Last top was with Esso 99 ethanol free (labelled E5) to get some for my neighbour's petrol lawn mower to save me cleaning the carb again after winter.

 

BUT - my wife's car isn't remapped Stage 1.

 

[rum4mo]

I agree that this is in my experience (August 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS now at 42,000 miles), is not a known and accepted characteristic of this engine, they should idle smoothly at a constant RPM hot, cold or in between, summer autumn winter or spring time. 
 

Edit:- that is at least for 6MT box.

Edited 19 June, 2023 by rum4mo

[Ootohere]

They should idle smoothly as well with a DQ200 DSG & not misfire.

Maybe at 1,100 or so for 30-40 seconds before dropping to around 800 rpm

 

Skoda / VW will make any excuse or give instructions to dealership employees for when cars run rough. Because they messed about to get cars to Euro 6 emissions figures.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/504258-a-tsb-from-skoda-on-cold-start-behaviour-with-12-tsis-something-that-dealership-employees-should-be-able-to-explain-to-customers

 

 

 

[nta16]

My wife's car gets the increased idle at times and it isn't smooth then but not like misfires, this is one of the times I class as the computer doing its thing (or interfering at other times) there seems to be a variety of engine bay noises at a variety of times.