Drone noise on front end, suspected wheel bearing failure.

[bmbmdmb]

Hi,

I have noticed a drone noise that becomes noticeable at 45mph on and gets worse with speed. Turning steering, braking, putting car in neutral at speed has no effect on this noise. I read that a drone may indicate a wheel bearing is on its way out?

 

I have swapped rear tyres from rear to front to rule out worn or feathered tyres. The tyres have all 5mm across them so nothing suspect. I got one side done last night and it made no difference to drone noise this am. I have just finished the other side this evening but not yet test drived.

However , I suspect it is a wheel bearing as there is no unusual wear on the tyres having measured the depth using a gauge. 

The front left wheel or any other wheel have no play, but when rotating the front left wheel I can hear a rough noise. 

 

The car has done 96k and it is the original wheel bearing. It had the FL drive shaft off to fit new CV joint boots half a year ago. I mentioned to mechanic the hub nut is only 60nm *iirc 

 

I have fitted a new wheel bearing front right 25k miles ago as the hub was replaced.

 

I have eBay tech2 kit specific to the Fabia, Fox models. 

 

Before I decide to tackle this job myself or take to the garage previously I only needed to fit the new bearing to a new hub. This time I need to remove the old wheel bearing I understand there is a collar that clicks in position. How hard is it to get the old wheel bearing out? Does it unsnap easily? 

I remember someone warning me to get a decent wheel bearing with this locking collar. I think I got a FAG WB which had this collar and I heard the satisfying click.

 

In another link someone suggested the track rod needed disconnecting. Would I need to do this? 

 

Also, I have abs, the abs sensor sits just outside the wheel bearing circumference.

 

Do I need the type of wheel bearing with abs integrated?

In another thread this part number was suggested 6Q0407621BR

fits 288 brake discs and with PA steering, which my 07 vrs has.

Thanks

Edited 25 July, 2023 by bmbmdmb

[bmbmdmb]

Does the abs sensor definitely need removing before I use tech 2 wheel bearing removal tool?

 

Last abs sensor broke when trying to save it from hub, so I really don't have anything to lose.

 

Cheers

[bmbmdmb]

I got it out intact by some miracle. Gt85, flat screwdrivers chiseling around sensor at rust and paint runs and...lots of patience. 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Oh, well done!

I think some of the bearing removal tools have a flat on them to allow it to stay in place, does yours?

[bmbmdmb]

Hi Pete,

 

I got this kit - See photo, my finger is pointing to flat bit.

Discs with mastic tape were used for other FR wheel bearing insertion a few years ago.

 

In this video the flat edge of the black half circle is positioned at base of the wheel bearing/hub.

 

I'm 4mins 10s into video

 

 

 

Thanks

[Breezy_Pete]

Not one of the semi-circle parts, the part that pulls in from behind the bearing to push it out. The smaller of the two black bits in the middle of the box.

[bmbmdmb]

Ah, this one?

This is to miss the abs sensor if it were still present?

[Breezy_Pete]

Yes, I believe so.

Hope so, if I have the same tool and stubborn rusted-in sensor and have to do a bearing.

[bmbmdmb]

What's your opinion on replacement of front discs? I think the discs are worn. 

Score marks on both sides, feel like ridges and appeared at same time on other discs opposite side, same axle. Done 40 to 45k

Pads have plenty of friction material though.

[Breezy_Pete]

Not essential unless worn to less than min thickness, but probably worth doing them, parts cost is usually pretty low.

[bmbmdmb]

9 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Not essential unless worn to less than min thickness, but probably worth doing them, parts cost is usually pretty low.

There is a brake disk lip of at least 1mm both sides and a got a set of Brembos and pads to fit. The wheel bearing was an added surprise bonus. 

 

Back to the bearing. Can I expect the circlip/collar that clicks in place to destroy itself on the old bearing and stay in place or will it drop off nicely into the recess? 

 

I got small cold chisel set and I will rub down the recess(wheel bearing housing inside hub). Should I use molybdenum grease to aid fitting, like the video. I think I used a bit last time?

 

Cheers

Edited 30 July, 2023 by bmbmdmb

[Breezy_Pete]

It should all come out as one I think, but yes, clean up should be very thorough, and grease will help minimise the struggle to wind the new one in. Use loads of grease on the threads of the big bolt of the removal tool set too.

[bmbmdmb]

After teatime, got the old bearing out. 

 

Do I need to track the steering?

 

I didn't need to remove the track rod end. Ball joint 3 x 13mm nuts were removed but fit snuggly in bracket. I didn't track this side driveshaft came out for boot as only the same ball joint bolts were disturbed.

 

I was getting worried, because I had to resort to breaker bar but I backed off and tried again. Plenty of gt85 down all the gaps to wheel bearing and it came. Looks like and feeling that recessed collar, some material is left behind. Most came out with old bearing.

 

Cheers

[Breezy_Pete]

Shouldn't need tracking. 

Not at all surprised that breaker bar was needed. Would be very surprised if it wasn't really.

[bmbmdmb]

Would the wheel bearing off the car give any tell tale signs of failure? 

Just a bit paranoid wheel bearing might be ok. 

The old one spins more freely than the new one! Although, if worn it might have more 'play'. I can just about feel a slight roughness when turned, like when I spun the wheel with it in situ. I suppose it needs weight on it to reveal its failure?

 

I didn't get any noise on turning but I don't do sharp turns at 50 plus mph.

 

What do you think Pete.

 

I guess I'll know when I put new one on either way. 

 

 

 

 

[rum4mo]

I couldn't really detect much if any issues with the front wheel bearing assemblies that I removed from my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI last August, which was a bit disappointing, still replacing both sides with F-A-G wheel hub sets got rid of the droning noise.

 

Really do clean up the area that the bearing sits in well and right back to the rear lip, I used a spot of grease to help the second side in, the first one went in easily without any grease to help it. You can clean the ABS sensor hole out with a 10mm drill, and apply some suitable wheel bearing type grease around the "relieved" area of the ABS sensor and more at the top to try to stop water etc getting back down there.

 

Edit:- I increased the depth of that cut away section as I found that was still too close to the ABS sensor, but unfortunately, on the RHS of that car, the ABS sensor got bent and so destroyed while pulling the bearing out, the LHS bearing, the first one that I replaced, came out okay without damaging the ABS sensorand before I had done any extra work on that "removing" rear disc/plate.

Edited 30 July, 2023 by rum4mo

[bmbmdmb]

Thanks Rum4mo. 

 

Yes, I'm going to spend more time cleaning those parts tomorrow.

 

To get the rust out the hole for the abs sensor I used 80 grit then 120 grit rolled up into tube and passed it through hole. The abs sensor locates fine now. I was thinking that a bead of silicone in a circle around the hole might stop water entering, as long as I don't go crazy, none in the hole etc.

This will stop water entering the hole and rust expanding and pinching the sensor.

 

The sensor binds near the top 5mm of the hole, most of the rod like abs sensor is smaller than the hole. 

 

As for the flat edge of the rear nut I too wondered if it would miss the sensor if it were still in place.

I measured 3mm clearance the flat edge allows once the wheel bearing was out with the tool still clamped tight in place.

 

I'll measure how much abs sensor protrudes into where wheel bearing sits tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

[rum4mo]

I think that in retrospect, I even considered removing some metal from the rear of the "fitting" rear plate/disc, but on that one, just grinding off a vertical slot down its inner face to be absolutely sure there was no chance of contact with the ABS sensor while pulling the bearing assembly into the hub. So I didn't do that as the ABS sensor on the second side was wrecked when the bearing was drawn out, so that remains "just an idea".

 

Lucky you getting the ABS sensor out, I know that it looks easy to do as most if not all the YouTube videos show the ABS lead being unplugged(maybe), quickly remove the retaining screw, and lift it out! I'm sure that the wording in the official VW workshop manual I have ignores this task as it is assumed that they will always break up when removing them, so a new ABS sensor must be bought and fitted with the new hub-bearing - nice money for VW Group parts people, I think that I phoned for a quote for a new VW branded ABS sensor a year ago, and was given a price of £85 or £95, which at least was slightly cheaper than they charge for the VW branded hub-bearing assembly!!!

 

One other tip, just make sure that you offer up/in the new bearing assembly as perfectly in line with the direction of travel that it needs to move or get pulled into the hub assembly, ie if you get sloppy and offer it up at an angle in either axis relative to the hub bore, you could end up jamming it in the bore as there will be nothing to "encourage" it to line itself up and so recover from that error. If carried out correctly, this job is a lot easier than I expected it to be.

 

I noticed that you avoided removing the TRE from the hub, I did remove them, but I didn't bother removing the ARB drop links, so the hub assembly did fight me more than necessary and also storing the removed driveshaft safely is easier if I had removed the ARB drop links.  One other comment, after finding the hub-suspension leg being a bit too free to move around while using that kit, I temporarily reconnected the lower arm to the hub-suspension leg assembly, doing that keeps the hub steady.

 

Putting the new plastic deflector shields onto the driveshaft, at least the LHS one was impossible even although I cleaned the spherical end of that shaft up, so I just refitted the original one, I did get the RHS new one on though even although it was more rusted up than the LHS one, strange.

Edited 31 July, 2023 by rum4mo
removed an extra letter?! Next, changed "less" to "more" rusted!

[bmbmdmb]

The new wheel bearing is in. A bit slow due to caliper respray etc.

 

I cleaned up the wheel bearing housing to perfection and greased with molybdenum then realised I couldn't get the cup cylinder tool that sits at back of hub. It needed scraping and sanding of 1 mm of rust all way around. Cleaned up and repeated.

 

I heard a click  then shortly after another. I made sure the bearing was offered up square on. The WB slid in easily. The retaining collar can just be seen in the gap.

 

I was worried that despite the clicks the bearing was not quite installed.

 

I measured 8mm gap between wheel bearing and hub, but I should have measured this before.

 

The abs sensor sits almost touching the magnetic ring at back of WB so any further movement will break abs sensor. It is 1mm off the magnetic ring.

 

[bmbmdmb]

Abs sensor seen from back of hub/wb, at top of photo peeping through the hole in the hub.

Magnetic ring is smooth brown coloured ring

 

[Lofty]

Looks spot on to me. Good work in saving the ABS sensor as well, they're usually a casualty in these jobs.

 

I've replaced front wheel bearings before on my Black vRS, howled like a banshee but no discernable side to side play at the wheel.

 

A tidy job all round me thinks, having the right tools certainly helps as well.

 

A couple of pics when I built the new front hubs up for my Yellow vRS, you'll see the retaining ring just about visible and the proximity of the ABS sensor to the back of the pick up ring.

 

 

Edited 31 July, 2023 by Lofty

[Breezy_Pete]

Now say a prayer to your preferred deity that it isn't/wasn't the other side gone again! 

Been there, done that on a Mk2 Golf

[Lofty]

Just now, Breezy_Pete said:

Now say a prayer to your preferred deity that it isn't/wasn't the other side gone again! 

Been there, done that on a Mk2 Golf

At least the otherside will be faster to do as he's practiced on this side....

 

(i think we've all been there at some point.)

[bmbmdmb]

Lofty, thanks for the pics. Yes, it was that retaining ring showing that was worrying me. My mind is at ease.

 

It's got to be this side. I fitted other side only 35k miles ago, F.A.G. brand.

 

Got to be....! 

 

I felt roughness in this one too. Please be the one I've replaced!!

 

Last time I prayed was when fitting those cupra solid rubber console bushes! 

[Lofty]

I had similar concerns when I did it, but the bearing had bottomed out and there was a noticable "click" from the retaining ring so I guessed it was fully home.

Funnily enough the first two bearings I was sent didnt have the retaining ring on at all, so I sent the back and got ones that did, better safe than sorry eh?