Hi,

 

I had a problem with the car always stalling when coming to a stop, plus uneven idle / running rich / occasional difficulty starting.

 

I changed the obvious items, air filter, fuel filter, plugs. Compression test carried out and was fine. No check engine light showing but there were a couple of errors stored:-

 

16825 / P0441 - EVAP system incorrect flow - I changed the N80 EVAP valve and this cured the stalling when coming to a stop

17769 / P1361 - Cylinder 3 Ignition Open Circuit - Changed the coil pack

 

Cleared codes and they have not returned.

 

So I am left with uneven idle / running rich / occasional difficulty starting. Occasionally when you pull up it seems to drop the revs and then surge/drop/surge/drop a few times and then sorts itself out.

 

I am wondering if it is a dirty or faulty injector, but they seem pretty expensive to replace on a whim (Part 03D906031G)

 

Any ideas or suggestions what to do next please!

 

Thanks.

Leaky vacuum pipes.

Thanks,

 

I have checked all the pipes, by eye, by feel and with a camera and I can't find any split or leaking.

I purchased a VCDS to read any codes properly and hopefully get some more info, it has found three issues.

 

It is worth mentioning that the car has been notably much worse on very hot days.

 

16556 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
P0172 - 007 - System Too Rich - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 0.740 V
Voltage: 0.820 V
Lambda: 0.0 %
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Voltage: 0.860 V
Voltage: 0.780 V
Lambda: 0.0 %
Bin. Bits: 00001000

 

17549 - Load Calculation Cross Check
P1141 - 007 - Implausible Value - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Lambda: 37.1 %
Lambda: -37.1 %
Lambda: 36.7 %
T.B. Angle: 3.8°

 

18529 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 1
P2097 - 006 - Too Rich - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 3072 /min
Mass Air / Rev.: 163.5 mg/str
Lambda: 0.0 %
Voltage: 0.580 V
RPM: 2240 /min
Mass Air / Rev.: 223.5 mg/str
Lambda: 0.0 %
Voltage: 0.080 V

 

I cleared them and it hasn't had a stalling episode yet, but the idle is up and down pretty regularly.

 

Can anyone suggest the next course of action please?

 

Thanks.

I have done a full scan after clearing the codes and it has also thrown this one up:-

 

Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels: 6R0-907-37x-ABS82.clb
Part No SW: 6R0 907 379 S HW: 6R0 907 379 AB
Component: ABS8.2 front H03 0001
Revision: --------
Coding: 400100DB006D00BA022D00E600D800000000
Shop #: WSC 13765 790 00049
VCID: 4EC57CE1E093BDDACD7-801A
1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101101
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 26
Mileage: 138157 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2023.09.03
Time: 13:21:18
Freeze Frame:
Hex Value: 0x0000
Hex Value: 0x8000
Hex Value: 0x1212
Hex Value: 0x13B0
Hex Value: 0x01FF
Hex Value: 0x007F
Hex Value: 0x7F00
Hex Value: 0x0000

Struggling resolving this. Cleared all the codes and the following came back after a couple of drives. It is pretty undriveable in the recent hot weather, not so bad on a cool rainy day but still far from normal.

 

16556 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
            P0172 - 007 - System Too Rich - Intermittent
          

16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
            P0441 - 008 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
           

17549 - Load Calculation Cross Check
            P1141 - 007 - Implausible Value - Intermittent
            

Evap valve was replaced when the problem first appeared. Wonder if there are multiple faults...

Have you got a compression tester?

Can you have a look under the car and check what bar rating is stamped on the end of the fuel filter? (Just in front of rear right wheel)

I did a compression test a couple of weeks ago and got 11 / 9.5 / 9.5 (1, 2, 3) which I think looks okay?

 

The fuel filter is 4 bar, this was replaced after the problem started but didn't seem to make any difference.

Edited 13 September, 20232 yr by Andy_Viking

4 minutes ago, Andy_Viking said:

I did a compression test a couple of weeks ago and got 11 / 9.5 / 9.5 (1, 2, 3) which I think looks okay?

 

The fuel filter is 4 bar, this was replaced after the problem started but didn't seem to make any difference.

 

No, the compression figures are certainly not acceptable, cylinders 2 & 3 are nearly 15% down on cylinder 1, this alone is reason enough to account for the problems.

7 minutes ago, Andy_Viking said:

The fuel filter is 4 bar

Yep, pretty sure that's correct.

 

Not sure on compressions, maybe a bit on the low side especially on 2 & 3.  Maybe worth repeating and trying in different conditions, cold engine and warmed up, to see if that reveals anything?

 

I am happy to take the head off and presumably replace the exhaust valves if that is what needs doing, almost at the point where I will do it just to rule it out! If I go down that route what else would be prudent to change while I am in there?

 

The only thing that puzzles me in this case is that the problem is intermittent, surely it would be a constant, and how poor compression would relate to the above error codes?

 

I'll recheck the compression at cold, and working temp and see what i get and report back.

 

Thanks guys.

11 minutes ago, Andy_Viking said:

I am happy to take the head off and presumably replace the exhaust valves if that is what needs doing, almost at the point where I will do it just to rule it out! If I go down that route what else would be prudent to change while I am in there?

 

The only thing that puzzles me in this case is that the problem is intermittent, surely it would be a constant, and how poor compression would relate to the above error codes?

 

I'll recheck the compression at cold, and working temp and see what i get and report back.

 

Thanks guys.

 

Try dropping a little oil down the plug hole before retesting the compression to rule out any bore glazing.

9 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Try dropping a little oil down the plug hole before retesting the compression to rule out any bore glazing.

Thanks, will do. Sorry to be pedantic but what sort of amount? Like a teaspoon full?

55 minutes ago, Andy_Viking said:

Thanks, will do. Sorry to be pedantic but what sort of amount? Like a teaspoon full?

 

Yes, that's fine

If the oil improves thing, that points to rings/bore. If it doesn't, then valves are suspect.

Double check the servo vacuum pipe at the manifold end, I had same problem and fault code

Edited 16 September, 20232 yr by ADFABIA

On 16/09/2023 at 20:15, ADFABIA said:

Double check the servo vacuum pipe at the manifold end, I had same problem and fault code

Hi,

 

Completely remove and checked, and looks perfect, thanks.

Okay so we have a problem!

 

Original compression test (done on a warm but probably not full temp engine) was on 21st August, so 4 weeks ago, and result was 11 / 9.5 / 9.5

 

Today we have:

Cold Engine: 11 / 9 / 7.75

Cold Engine + Oil: 12.5 / 10.5 / 9 - All roughly + 1.5 but cold engine presumably tolerances are greater

 

Hot Engine: 11.5 / 9.5 / 8.25

Hot Engine + Oil: 12 / 10.25 / 9.5 - All roughly +0.75

 

So #3 is detereorating...

 

Head off, leak test, probably need valve guides and exhaust valves?

Might be worth seeing what whole engines you can find at reasonable prices, if you can DIY fit. They're not very 'take-apart-and-rebuild' friendly these little things, lots of sealant gaskets and other sources of grief.

Thanks, I have had a quick look but without spending an awful lot they all seem to be a similar mileage to this one, so wouldn't be confident they would be any better.

 

If it is just the head I am happy to have a go, I'll do the work myself (actually quite enjoy it) and I have a 2 week window early October where the car isn't needed. I'll get all the parts priced up first to get an idea...

7 minutes ago, Andy_Viking said:

just the head

Sounds easy until you realise that that means timing cover and chain has to come off, which means sump off too.  PITA, having done one. Never again.

Even getting the crank locking tool in in place of the crank sensor can be a right faff, as the alloy oxidises and closes up the hole around it. It being 6 years younger than the one I worked on will help in that regard though, I hope.

 

I like a challenge

 

I knew about the timing cover / sump etc, which is leaking anyway so needs doing.

 

Anything else obvious to do while I am in there? Presume new timing chain. Are the tensioners a lifelong item or worth replacing? Chain guides?

 

Thanks.

Yes to replacing the tensioner, doubt the guide rails are too bad. Some would say change the sprockets, but I'd suggest examining first as they may be fine. 

@Crasher will have done a fair few of these I think, so probably a solid source of advice if he has a minute. 👍

 

Look forward to hearing of your success in due course. 

Getting together a list of what I need, will post a list of parts ordered tomorrow in case I have missed anything.

 

1:  Tools, I have a huge toolset so all the basic stuff will be covered, but specifics for this car, I have ordered the timing locking tool set, is there anything else I am likely to need?

 

2: What is the go-to sealant for sump, timing cover etc. On the SAABs I usually use anaerobic sealant (Locktite 518). Suitable? Or is there a preferred option?

 

Thanks.

Parts ordered, is there anything I have missed?

Head gasket

Inlet manifold seals

Exhaust Manifold gasket

Valve Stem Seals

Head Bolts
Exhaust valves
Valve Guides
Timing Chain

Timing Chain Tensioner

Oil

Filter

Coolant