Fuel additive yes/no?

[EnterName]

11 minutes ago, lmb said:

But the "fancy" fuel is  "a standard" fuel with additives. What difference does it make, who adds additives?

A good question, which I'm sure neither of us can properly answer.

However fuel sold has to meet rigorous standards.

Not sure fuel additives have to meet such rigorous standards or indeed what the standards for fuel additives are.

Certainly Millers don't seem to make any claims for their Diesel Power ECOMAX meeting any standards or regulations.

Just advice to watch what you do with it.

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/diesel-power-ecomax/

[Ootohere]

Boring we know.   & as for the second video, he could have just compared Shell E5 99 ron min to Shell E10 95 ron min.  Being Morrisons was not the difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

If interested and look you will see 2023 vids from the UK where people test E10,s to see if on the day different ones have less than the up to 10% ethanol they can have.

Obviously they can.

 

ESSO E5 Super is now 99 ron min in the UK.

(Declaration, my tuned Turbo / Twincharger petrol engines loved Ethanol and low air temperatures / Winter, 

& the Fuel in the UK from Mid October is Winter Grade petrol and diesel and the Petrol less Hygroscopic.  Just like EU Winter fuels.)

 

 

Location location location and storage  depots etc, so where and how long being stored. 

 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[lmb]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

If you mean between fuel retailers then I agree, if you mean between the fuel companies blending additives and a pigeon pouring snake oil that they know zilch about into their fuel tank then there is a massive difference.

 

 

I cannot see any reason why not to throw €50 notes out of the window while driving other than to save not waste money!

You see, maybe 20 years ago, I would have agreed with you on the first one. But I doubt that any of the "additives" that fuel manufacturers add nowadays is manufactured by them. So I chose to use additives from the guys, who know what they are doing (when it comes to oils).

 

And take my word for it - if something goes wrong with the engine, because of fuel, you will end up with a ping pong between car and fuel manufacturer and you won't be able to prove anything. Some guys were lucky in the past but they were not many of them :).

 

Additive cost me £1 per tank of fuel. Full tank of fuel is ~£95 - not sure where your 50 euros come from...

 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by lmb

[Ootohere]

@lmb   Did the name TESCO Momentum 99 not give you a clue to the Octane?

Do you actually look at pumps and see what it is that you are buying in the way of Minimum Octane, or Cetane?

 

What is the actual Octane Booster in Octane Boosters? 

 

Why has VW Group never noticed that in the UK Super Unleaded is 97 or 99 ron Minimum and not been sold as 98 ron Min for over a decade? 

 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/en/need-help/need-help-faqs/fuel.html

 

388380a097b04fe693a8c27db8bb4974 (1).pdf 6ca06d648b9541e78fa838fece4a1a23 (1).pdf

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[lmb]

2 minutes ago, toot said:

@lmb   Did name TESCO Momentum 99 not give you a clue to the Octane?

 

What is the actual Octane Booster in Octane Boosters? 

 

Why has VW Group never noticed that in the UK Super Unleaded is 97 or 99 ron Minimum and not been sold as 98 ron Min for over a decade? 

Yeah, I can see that the Momentum is 99, fair enough. I am not sure where 97 came from, my mistake, you corrected it. You can crucify me now.

 

Still, this has nothing to do with additives.

 

In regards to 95 vs 99 - I do not give monkeys if it adds octanes, boost or magic ponies. I can see and feel the difference in my 90HP Sandero, car drives differently, has better fuel economy. As for the Superb - I simply cannot tell, however 41mpg on long runs is seen often. Bear in mind that on similar runs, Sandero can achieve 56-58mpg easily. Pretty good for a small petrol engine.

[Ootohere]

Great.

Cars that can benefit from a higher octane do, and those that do not don't. 

 

Since we all drive and put in fuel where ever we do in the country and pay for it then if we pay close attention then we know what works for us.

 

Those that do not even know what is on sale or they buy maybe will be clueless.    Not long now until Winter Grade Fuel starts being distributed in  Scotland and the north of England. and then eventually further south. 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[lmb]

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

A good question, which I'm sure neither of us can properly answer.

However fuel sold has to meet rigorous standards.

Not sure fuel additives have to meet such rigorous standards or indeed what the standards for fuel additives are.

Certainly Millers don't seem to make any claims for their Diesel Power ECOMAX meeting any standards or regulations.

Just advice to watch what you do with it.

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/diesel-power-ecomax/

Fair point. However 2-ethylhexyl Nitrate is a common additive to diesel fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_improver - and I doubt that Shell/BP/Millers/Fuchs, etc. manufacture this stuff themselves, they simply buy it and add to their fuels.

 

It is a very similar story with people buying Nurofen, and others Ibuprofen. I know some farmacist and they say that purity and quality of Nurofen is far superior to cheap Asda/Tesco Ibuprofen. Still, not a single Nurofen farmacist  saw the manufacturing process in person. I have been involved into manufacturing, design, etc. for many years and have seen many things. And I understand very well that buying in bulk is way cheaper than manufacturing.

 

I cannot prove anything, just like those who are against. It is just common sense. You can do what you are comfortable with.

[lmb]

2 minutes ago, toot said:

Not long now until Winter Grade Fuel starts being distributed in  Scotland and the north of England. and then eventually further south. 

And what is wrong with Winter Grade Fuel?

 

 

[Ootohere]

Nothing.

Bl00dy marvellous oop north IMO & IME, 

just like EU Winter spec, 99 ron Min maybe and even 100+ ron type performance just as you get across the channel.

 

But then you maybe need the Map or Switchable map, or dyno cars to know the difference, or just try filling up.  DRAGY first then with the new stuff in. 

 

No point just going 'seat of the pants.

[EnterName]

18 minutes ago, lmb said:

In regards to 95 vs 99 - I do not give monkeys if it adds octanes, boost or magic ponies. I can see and feel the difference in my 90HP Sandero, car drives differently, has better fuel economy. As for the Superb - I simply cannot tell, however 41mpg on long runs is seen often. Bear in mind that on similar runs, Sandero can achieve 56-58mpg easily. Pretty good for a small petrol engine.

What's the improvement in economy on your Sandero?

I <think> I get better economy by using 97RON rather than 95RON fuel, but it's been so long since I used 95 that I can't actually remember what my car does to the gallon on 95.

I had 95 in my car when I got it remapped, because as I run it on 97, I get a little safety margin when it comes to the risk of early ignition and the engine damage it can cause.

It's only a tiny risk as I potter around most of the time, but that's what I did.

I have a sneaking suspicion that 97RON fuels have better additive packs in, but I've no concrete evidence to prove it and the extra ethanol in 95RON might be beneficial for my car with port injection, but I'm not about to overthink it any more than I already have. 😄

[Ootohere]

If interested in Spec of Diesel or Petrols, Unleaded / Super Unleaded then the Greenergy web pages worth a look.

 

 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[lmb]

9 minutes ago, EnterName said:

What's the improvement in economy on your Sandero?

I <think> I get better economy by using 97RON rather than 95RON fuel, but it's been so long since I used 95 that I can't actually remember what my car does to the gallon on 95.

I had 95 in my car when I got it remapped, because as I run it on 97, I get a little safety margin when it comes to the risk of early ignition and the engine damage it can cause.

It's only a tiny risk as I potter around most of the time, but that's what I did.

I have a sneaking suspicion that 97RON fuels have better additive packs in, but I've no concrete evidence to prove it and the extra ethanol in 95RON might be beneficial for my car with port injection, but I'm not about to overthink it any more than I already have. 😄

You got it very wrong. I purchased "cheap" car to save as much pennies as possible. So why would I be spending extra money on fuel? I never bothered with 99 in Sandero, for this exact reason. It was until last year when I had to do emergency trip to Europe, and decided to fuel my cheap and cheerful car with 99. So I do remeber and have notes of its fuel economy prior to June last year. On avarage I have 4-5 better mpg in similar conditions. Bear in mind that the car is 17 plate, so you can do the math for how many years it was fed with 95 and how many months with 99.

[Ootohere]

Good.

That will be the 99 octane min that was available to you in the South at that time, and since.

 

It all meets a Minimum Octane.  What is nice in the EU / Across the Channel Europe is that Shell V-Power pump fuel can even be 102 ron in Italy and elsewhere near Factories and Test Tracks.

100+ Octane at a fair price across the channel is simply clever to run on if the ECU / engine managements likes the higher octane.

 

We used to get BP Ultimate 102 ron at a filling station near Knockhill. 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[lmb]

17 minutes ago, toot said:

No point just going 'seat of the pants.

I'd say same to you. At the moment you just copy and paste some links but not a single one showing that fuel additives are: snake oil, damage your engine, make you poor :).

 

You have a right to your opinion, that is fine. I can see that you liked when someone showed me how to use "think" word. Sadly non of you applied this rule to yourself. I strongly recommend to edit your post and add "I think".

 

I do not feel like I have to prove here anything, this is a discussion, and we are free to our opinions.

 

You think that winter grade fuel is a marketing slang, I beg to differ. And I believe a lot of guys here from countries that see a bit lower temperatures than Scottland, they are happy to use winter grade fuel as well.

 

And yes, in my early 20s we did put whatever we could in our Ritmo to get us to the uni. Still, when it was cold we would always fuel our trusty Ritmo with winter grade diesel, and it never failed us.

 

I am off, so keep on posting 5 posts a minute with random links and screenshots Good luck

[Ootohere]

I never said they damage your engine.

What i know is that people use them, flush out a load of carbon and get issues with their car and Emission / Engine lights and then ask what went wrong.

 

What went wrong was their car was running fine.  It maybe needed longer runs and a bit of a roasting now and dont run a diesel like a City Car.

 

As to Winter Grade fuel we used to actually store it for running after winter.

Because of it being less Hygroscopic and a higher octane. 

 

I love the stuff, love Ethanol as well with the right engine.   Loved LPG for it,s higher octane.   But then it took me years to get to know this stuff.

Edited 21 September, 2023 by toot

[EnterName]

Well, that escalated quickly. 😐

@lmbSome re-calibration is usually required between social media platforms and Briskoda.

 

 

[dbolton]

i am on  my 2nd superb 1.6 greenline, the 1st i sold at 300,000 miles when it was still running perfectly and had never had and dpf issues......i had it regularly serviced at hiQ , and they used to add a diesel treatment at every service (around every 8000 mjles..), the car never had any issues with dpf or anything...my second 1/6 greenline is currently on 180.000 miles and at about 170.000 it went into limp mode and needed new dpf ....it had until that point not had any diesel treatment added as i has it serviced elsewhere...suffice to add i now will be regularly adding stp diesel additive (as they used to add)at every service from now on...  

[SollyN]

Does anyone have any experience of freeing up a sticking turbo (overboost I believe) using Forte additive by any chance?

 

Gets good reviews on amazon, but longterm results are slightly unknown...

 

[fr1nklyn]

13 hours ago, SollyN said:

Does anyone have any experience of freeing up a sticking turbo (overboost I believe) using Forte additive by any chance?

 

Gets good reviews on amazon, but longterm results are slightly unknown...

 

 

I had sticking turbo on my 1.9 Pump-Duse TDI Audi A4 in the past and cured it with Archoil DPF and turbo cleaner, and then blocked the EGR. Not very eco-friendly solution.. Something I wouldn't do now.

My car used to enter in limb mode once in a while so I added it and drove hardly above 2500-3000rpm until the tank was almost empty. Then blocked the EGR(and EGR cooler I think?) and after that I started to use Archoil's and Miller's diesel fuel additive.

 

BTW I still use the Archoil's fuel additive every tank as the Miller's is hardly available after Brexit. Maybe it\s not helping much, but at least makes the engine quieter with less vibrations according to the cheap Skoda interior . Also it's much cheaper than the Premium Diesel..

I used to add 2T ashless oil in my pre-PD TDI engine some years ago and the result was the same.. But I don't have balls to add it in a CR TDI   

Edited 10 October, 2023 by fr1nklyn

[SollyN]

Thanks for your reply that is really helpful and interesting, I'm suprised to hear it cleared the blockage but then blocked the EGR! Anyway, the stuff is in the tank now but only managed short journeys so far.

 

Interesting to hear you kept revs low, most folks talk about running the engine hard once up to temp to clear the blockage. I'm prepared to try this for a few tanks of fuel if needed as it seems cheap compared to stripping the turbo down, so I'm going to drive easy, at least for a while before I start to feel it out. I've never really used fuel additives so all new to me!

 

Thanks again!

[Ootohere]

@dbolton  Are you saying that at a service they put the additive into a tank of fuel regardless of what amount of fuel was in and serviced the car and did no more than a road test for miles covered? 

 

?Why were you not using the additive put in by yourself between the 8,000 mile intervals?

 

You cover a lot of miles to be servicing / doing oil changes every 8,000 miles. 

Any reason why you are servicing a TDI at such low miles covered?