vRS ride height increase

[Szl87]

Hi all,

 

I've inherited an Octavia MK3 vRS Hatchback, 2.0 TDI 184 hp, with DSG. It is an excellent car with low mileage, but unfortunately it is way too low for the roads that I sometimes have to tackle, so I've already fitted a steel engine sump guard, but an increase in ride height is needed. In my country changing the tire size is not an option as it is not allowed, so I have to fiddle around with the suspension.

I've read trough many previous posts regarding the increase, and learned a lot in the process, but there are still some questions that I wanted to double check with the people who actually know what they are doing

So the goal is to increase the ride height as much as possible, by changing the springs and probably the shocks as well without ruining the handling and keeping costs relatively low.

Relevant pr codes: G07,H1V,L17,0N4,0YD,1JE,1X0,2H5

 

Originally the car came with the following springs:
Front 5Q0411105HD
Rear 5Q0511115Q

 

I was thinking of changing it to:
Front 5Q0411105GL
Rear 5Q0511115AH
Based on the Eibach specs that i found on autodoc both should be 41mm longer and roughly the same wire diameter.

Would this work with the car?

 

I was also looking at 5Q0411105GN for the front which is longer and thicker, but did not find any matching springs for the rear. Maybe somebody knows of any?

 

Which shocks would be needed in this case?
What other components would be needed to make this happen?

 

Thanks!

[Carlston]

5Q0511115AH is an increased ride height rear spring, so wouldn't be suitable for a standard ride height car.

 

Here's some suggestions for standard ride height front and rear springs for the Octavia MK3 2.0TDI hatchback DSG VRS.

 

These springs are probably about as stiff as you would want to go on this car without making the ride too hard. Being a VRS it has independent rear suspension, so is always going to handle better than the solid rear axle models. I suspect that like the VRS, the Octavia MK3 1.8TSI 180HP also uses independent rear suspension...along with all 4x4 models.

 

Standard ride height front spring 5Q0411105GN

Bilstein 37-293123

Eibach R19441

Kilen 25123

KYB RA1491

Lesjofors 4095137

Sachs 993821

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0411105gn?search=OEN 5Q0411105GN&supplier[0]=16&supplier[1]=253&supplier[2]=85&supplier[3]=32&supplier[4]=246&supplier[5]=112&supplier[6]=16&supplier[7]=253&supplier[8]=85&supplier[9]=32&supplier[10]=246

 

Standard ride height rear spring 5Q0511115G

Bilstein 36-301799

Eibach R17742

Kilen 63137

KYB RA7151

Lesjofors 4285738

Sachs 994999

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0511115g?supplier[0]=112&supplier[1]=32&supplier[2]=85&supplier[3]=253&supplier[4]=246&supplier[5]=16

 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by Carlston

[Szl87]

Thanks @Carlston for the quick reply.

With the longer springs I presume the sport shocks won't be long enough. Any advice on what to change it with?

Do I need to change other components as well, like the rubber stops, upper, lower underlays?

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, Szl87 said:

Thanks @Carlston for the quick reply.

With the longer springs I presume the sport shocks won't be long enough. Any advice on what to change it with?

Do I need to change other components as well, like the rubber stops, upper, lower underlays?

 

If you've ever jacked up a car to change a wheel, you will know that shock absorbers tend to have quite a bit of sag in them, ie. the car body goes up quite a bit before the wheel leaves contact with the ground. Therefore you might be able to use the sports (lowered ride height) shock absorbers with standard ride height springs.

 

If you do go for new shock absorbers one suggestion is Bilstein B6, which is a standard ride height shock absorber but better than OEM quality.

 

With the front buffers you need to change the 55mm ones to 70mm ones, ie. use OEM part number 1K0412303B.

 

70mm front buffers matching OEM part number 1K0412303B (for standard ride height)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/2725189

 

With lowered ride height rear springs the rear buffers have a height of 112mm. For standard ride height rear springs these need changing to rear buffers with a height of 127mm. The OEM part number for the 127mm rear buffers is 5Q0511357H.

 

127mm rear buffers matching OEM part number 5Q0511357H (for standard ride height)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/8878001

 

Being a VRS you might have the stiffest front anti-roll bar, ie. 5Q0411303AA. It depends whether you have build code 0AE as shown in the chart below.

 

Front anti-roll bar (1X0=front wheel drive, 1X1=four wheel drive)

16	5Q0411303S	stabilizer, complete	21.7x3.6	1	PR-0AC+1X0
16	5Q0411303T	stabilizer, complete	23.2x3.5	1	PR-0AD+1X0
16	5Q0411303AA	stabilizer, complete	24x3.8	1	PR-0AE+1X0

 

Rear anti-roll bar (front wheel drive with independent rear suspension)

16	5Q0511305AR	Anti-roll bar	19.6x2.6	1	PR-0BD,0BN
16	5Q0511305AS	Anti-roll bar	20.7x2.8	1	PR-0BE
16	5Q0511305BL	Anti-roll bar	18mm rear	1	PR-0BM+1X0

Edited 15 October, 2023 by Carlston

[Szl87]

Makes sense, I will try then with the original shocks first.

I also checked the anti roll bars and indeed I have the stiffest option in the front and the 19.6 in the back.

 

Btw, Just out of curiosity what is the difference between the standard ride height and the increased ride height rear springs so that they are not compatible?

[Carlston]

8 hours ago, Szl87 said:

Makes sense, I will try then with the original shocks first.

I also checked the anti roll bars and indeed I have the stiffest option in the front and the 19.6 in the back.

 

Btw, Just out of curiosity what is the difference between the standard ride height and the increased ride height rear springs so that they are not compatible?

 

If you use standard ride height front springs and increased ride height rear springs the rear end will look too high compared to the front. Also, the handling might not feel right.

 

Although it's often said that standard ride height is 15mm higher than lowered ride height, going by the specification of the springs you might find that the car's ride height is increased by more like 30mm than 15mm.

 

If you still want more ride height, rather than looking at increased ride height springs you could look at slightly increased outside diameter tyres, such as 225/50R17 instead of 225/45R17.

 

Compared to 225/45R17, 225/50R17 will increase the ride height by 11.25mm. 225/50R17 is a Scout tyre size, and you could use the Scout's 7Jx17 ET45 rim specification such as shown below.

 

As you can see below, 225/50R17 has an outside diameter 3.5% greater than 225/45R17, 3.1% greater than 225/40R18, and 2.6% greater than 225/35R19.

 

Outside diameter of tyre

225/45R17 634.3mm

225/40R18 637.2mm

225/35R19 640.1mm

225/50R17 656.8mm (+3.5% compared to 225/45R17) (+3.1% compared to 225/40R18) (+2.6% compared to 225/35R19)

 

Vredestein Quatrac 6 225/45R17 94V XL (Euro label C B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m140b0s8017p221164/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_225_45_R17_94V_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

 

Vredestein Quatrac 6 225/50R17 98V XL (Euro label C B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m140b0s8019p221178/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_225_50_R17_98V_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

 

7Jx17 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Karoq) (weighs about 10.1kg to 10.9kg) (same specification as Octavia MK3 Scout rim)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-karoq/p/57A071497C+8Z8

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-karoq/p/57A071497D+FL8

 

Edited 17 October, 2023 by Carlston

[dieselV6]

Some not entirely accurate advice above, although I am sure in good faith. 

 

Below is a description of my setup that I have been using for almost 4 years /40k+ miles over all kinds of roads across Europe, including some very poor ones as well as autobahn. Take whatever info you want/need out of it, but I reject responsibility for any potential problems/issues

 

If you need 17in rims and want taller profile but narrower tyres with vRS 340mm brakes, you need to go for "Crystal" Skoda alloys or similar, as not all 17in alloys have enough clearance over the 340mm calipers, this affects cooling as well as risks losing balancing weights. 

 

With these Crystal rims (originally intended for winter tyres), even a narrower 205mm wide tyre already extends past the rim edge and protects the wheel against scrubbing, by comparison the original 18in rims were sticking out of the stock tyres.

I use 205/55/R17 Michelin Cross Climate tyres (the taller Scout winter tyre size) for all-weather capability and good behaviour in the rain.

 

Regarding suspension height, for good handling and least work/expense, it is sufficient to raise just the rear and use Scout tyre size in narrower profile, your comfort will improve a lot, and handling will not suffer much if at all unless you want a track car.

Because of long rear overhang, using tall rear springs raises both the rear and the front, although obviously front is raised about half of the rear. Main thing to remember afterwards is to adjust front assist radar in the bumper upwards, half a turn of the correct adjusting screw will do it.

 

Overall, this setup gives about 40mm lift at the back and about 25mm lift at the front, with much improved comfort and good handling IMHO, but I may be biased because I have set up my last 20+ years of 3 Skodas that way (sport suspension front - HD springs rear). 

 

I have a manual vRs TDI, and used 2x 5Q511115AF rear springs  together with Bilstein Sport B6 24-229890 shocks. Best to replace nuts/bolts connecting the shocks, and on an older car, perhaps also top mounts. I have not replaced front shocks yet but when I do, they will also be Bilstein B6.

 

My parts list for this job, yours might differ (e.g. also top mounts):

2x 5Q511115AF spring (from Scout)
2x N10295101 M10 top nut
4x N90648402 M10x35 susp bolt
2x N10628301 Hex bolt M12x1.5x90
2x N10106402 Hex nut M12x1.5
2x 5Q0511357H stop buffer Scout   (longer)
2x Bilstein Sport B6 24-229890

Edited 17 October, 2023 by dieselV6

[Breezy_Pete]

20 minutes ago, dieselV6 said:

5Q511115AF

Missing a character, a 0 as the third one - I'd expect 5Q0511115AF

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, dieselV6 said:

If you need 17in rims and want taller profile but narrower tyres with vRS 340mm brakes, you need to go for "Crystal" Skoda alloys or similar, as not all 17in alloys have enough clearance over the 340mm calipers, this affects cooling as well as risks losing balancing weights. 

 

The Kodiaq has an almost identical RATIKON alloy rim with just a 5mm difference in offset, ie. ET40 on the Kodiaq and ET45 on the Karoq.

 

Both rims are suitable for 17" rims without clearance problems for the 340x25mm front brakes.

 

The Kodiaq uses the 340x25mm front brakes on models with more than 150HP. Clearly, the Kodiaq RATIKON alloy rims wouldn't be suitable for Kodiaqs with more than 150HP if there was a problem with brake clearance.

 

7Jx17 ET45 RATIKON alloy rim (from Karoq)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-karoq/p/57A071497C+8Z8

 

7Jx17 ET40 RATIKON (from Kodiaq)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-kodiaq/p/565071497A+8Z8

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, dieselV6 said:

2x 5Q0511115AF spring (from Scout)

 

5Q0511115AF isn't a Scout rear spring.

 

There's only four Scout rear springs listed in the Skoda parts catalogue and they are listed below. Even the lowest weight range 5Q0511115L Scout rear spring is much heavier duty and longer than the 5Q0511115AF rear spring.

 

Octavia MK3 Scout rear springs

1	5Q0511115L	Coil spring		2	PR-1JB+0YB
1	5Q0511115AL	Coil spring		2	PR-1JB+0YC
1	5Q0511115AM	Coil spring		2	PR-1JB,0YD
1	5Q0511115AN	Coil spring		2	PR-1JB+0YE

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/OCT/753/5/511/511010

[dieselV6]

Whatever the Scout or not Scout designation, 5Q0511121AF are  taller springs that I use at the rear, and yes, the 0 was missing, a typo.

The "Crystal" alloys are 1in narrower (6J x 17) than the "Ratikon" alloys (7J x 17) and as such offer much better wheel protection against scuffing on rough roads when used with a 205mm wide tyre of 55 profile (again better for rough roads than the 225mm lower profile tyres), glad to hear that Ratikon can also be used with 340mm brakes because not all 17in alloys can.  OP wanted a more durable setup for rough roads, in my opinion and direct experience, 205/55/R17 wheels with plenty of scuff protection are just right for the job, even 205/50/R17 wheels / tyres with narrow rims will be better than the same tyre size with wider rims or wider tyres/lower profile.

Edited 18 October, 2023 by dieselV6

[Carlston]

6 hours ago, dieselV6 said:

The "Crystal" alloys are 1in narrower (6J x 17) than the "Ratikon" alloys (7J x 17) and as such offer much better wheel protection against scuffing on rough roads when used with a 205mm wide tyre of 55 profile (again better for rough roads than the 225mm lower profile tyres)...

 

205/55R17 on 6Jx17 ET48 rims are not going to look good on a VRS. They are too sunken in the wheelarches.

 

205/55R17 fitted to a 6Jx17 rim has an actual inflated width of 208mm.

 

225/50R17 fitted to a 7Jx17 rim has an actual inflated width of 233mm.

 

So the 225/50R17 will protect its 7J rim just as well as the 205/55R17 protects its 6J rim.

 

Edited 18 October, 2023 by Carlston

[langers2k]

The 'correct' 17" alloy for a vRS would be the Dorado (7.5Jx17 ET49) with a 225/45 R17 tyre fitted...

 

It's in both the 2017 and 2019 brochures and listed as specifically for the vRS

 

[dieselV6]

4 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

205/55R17 on 6Jx17 ET48 rims are not going to look good on a VRS. They are too sunken in the wheelarches.

 

205/55R17 fitted to a 6Jx17 rim has an actual inflated width of 208mm.

 

225/50R17 fitted to a 7Jx17 rim has an actual inflated width of 233mm.

 

So the 225/50R17 will protect its 7J rim just as well as the 205/55R17 protects its 6J rim.

 

 

Looks are less relevant, also it so happens, I have the black Crystal alloys on Black Magic car that has the Black Package and so far, people who commented on them seem to like them 

Having wheels deeper in wheelarches is the whole point here, gravel, mud etc stays in the wheelarches. I also have front and rear mudflaps, this car is for driving fast on autobahn and then driving without damage on poor local roads, not for posing.

Not everyone cares about track car looks, especially when practicality suffers. It would seem that the thread much deviates from OP needs 😞 

[dieselV6]

3 hours ago, langers2k said:

The 'correct' 17" alloy for a vRS would be the Dorado (7.5Jx17 ET49) with a 225/45 R17 tyre fitted...

 

It's in both the 2017 and 2019 brochures and listed as specifically for the vRS

 

I am sure it will also fit, but again, it is wider, also it is for FL Mk3, OP said 2016 Mk3 so pre-FL. Not that it makes any difference to the fit. On my side, I still prefer narrower alloys/tyres, also because in normal use they wear out more evenly than the wider tyres.

[langers2k]

16 minutes ago, dieselV6 said:

I am sure it will also fit, but again, it is wider, also it is for FL Mk3, OP said 2016 Mk3 so pre-FL. Not that it makes any difference to the fit. 

 

There is a good chance being a 2016 TDi, it'll have smaller 312mm front disks which will open up a range of 16" alloys too...

 

That aside, the OP said "In my country changing the tire size is not an option as it is not allowed". That means they can only choose from the alloy/tyre sizes the car has been certified against making most options suggested here invalid.

[Carlston]

4 hours ago, langers2k said:

The 'correct' 17" alloy for a vRS would be the Dorado (7.5Jx17 ET49) with a 225/45 R17 tyre fitted.

 

The Dorado has an offset of ET51, not ET49 as shown in the Skoda parts catalogue.

 

3	5E0601025P	Aluminium rim	7.5Jx17 ET51	4	PR-C0X DORADO
	5E0601025P 8Z8	Diamond silver

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/OCT/805/6/601/601070

 

Edited 18 October, 2023 by Carlston

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, dieselV6 said:

Not everyone cares about track car looks, especially when practicality suffers.

 

225/50R17 fitted to a 7Jx17 ET45 rim is an Octavia MK3 Scout specification and a Yeti specification.

 

225/50R17 has a sidewall height of 112.5mm which is almost 4.5". It's very practical which is why this exact specification was fitted to the Yeti. 4.5" sidewalls won't give the car track car looks.

 

If the OP did fit 205/55R17 as you are suggesting, I doubt he would be impressed with the lateral grip which is no where near the 225/50R17.

 

Edited 18 October, 2023 by Carlston

[langers2k]

18 minutes ago, Carlston said:

The Dorado has an offset of ET51, not ET49 as shown in the Skoda parts catalogue.

 

Nods, seems it is ET51 

 

I got ET49 from https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/5e0071497c8z8-aluminium-rim-17-dorado-skoda-43502.html which must be a mistake on their site 

[Szl87]

As @langers2kmentioned the VRS came with the Dorado 7,5J x 17“ ET 51 out of the factory and I remember that we ordered a separate set of wheels for the winter tires, but the guys at Skoda messed up as what they ordered did not fit due to the big brakes (it has the 330mm ones) so in the end a set of Denom 7,0J x 17" ET 49 were bought.

Funnily enough, I was just checking the wheels as I have to buy new tires as these are still the original ones and noticed that I have the narrower tires on the wider wheels... 🤦‍♂️

 

And as mentioned before I cannot choose a tire other than what is in the papers, but your answers might help somebody in the future. 😉

These are my allowed tire sizes.

225/35R19 88Y

225/40R18 92Y

225/45R17 91W

205/50R17 89V

 

I will need to use snow chains in the winter and I saw that for both of my wheels it is specified as not possible to use snow chains.

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/en_CZ/alloy-wheel-denom-17-for-octavia-iii/p/5E0071497++8Z8

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/en_CZ/alloy-wheel-dorado-17-octavia-iii/p/5E0071497C+8Z8

Is this something that the increase in ride height might solve or is there simply not enough clearance on the inside and I should use rather a slim chain that is compatible?

[dieselV6]

23 minutes ago, Szl87 said:

As @langers2kmentioned the VRS came with the Dorado 7,5J x 17“ ET 51 out of the factory and I remember that we ordered a separate set of wheels for the winter tires, but the guys at Skoda messed up as what they ordered did not fit due to the big brakes (it has the 330mm ones) so in the end a set of Denom 7,0J x 17" ET 49 were bought.

Funnily enough, I was just checking the wheels as I have to buy new tires as these are still the original ones and noticed that I have the narrower tires on the wider wheels... 🤦‍♂️

 

And as mentioned before I cannot choose a tire other than what is in the papers, but your answers might help somebody in the future. 😉

These are my allowed tire sizes.

225/35R19 88Y

225/40R18 92Y

225/45R17 91W

205/50R17 89V

 

I will need to use snow chains in the winter and I saw that for both of my wheels it is specified as not possible to use snow chains.

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/en_CZ/alloy-wheel-denom-17-for-octavia-iii/p/5E0071497++8Z8

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/en_CZ/alloy-wheel-dorado-17-octavia-iii/p/5E0071497C+8Z8

Is this something that the increase in ride height might solve or is there simply not enough clearance on the inside and I should use rather a slim chain that is compatible?

 

I believe you can use 205/50R17 with chains when using the narrower 6Jx17 Crystal wheels, they are official Mk3 pre-FL vRS winter wheels suitable fro 340mm vRS TDI brakes (only post-FL had smaller brakes). I have original Skoda chains sized for these. 

Regarding handling, 205s are enough also on twisty roads, yes there is difference at the limit, but I drive the car to get me from A to B quickly and reliably, not to monkey around, so theoretical loss of handling does not bother me, and has not bothered me driving 40% heavier MK1 Superb on 205/55/R16 with the same amount of diesel power for 11 years /~220k miles. Plus what you lose in handling, you gain in comfort.

Edited 18 October, 2023 by dieselV6

[Carlston]

6 hours ago, dieselV6 said:

Regarding handling, 205/55R17s...Plus what you lose in handling, you gain in comfort.

 

205/55R17 are the most comfortable tyre size out of the following four tyre sizes:

 

205/55R17

225/50R17

225/45R17

225/40R18

225/35R19

 

However, 225/50R17 is very close to the comfort of 205/55R17.

 

The below chart shows the relative comfort of the below five tyre sizes. The +psi figure is how overinflated the 205/55R17 would have to be to have the discomfort level of the other four tyre sizes. So to get the discomfort level of the 225/50R17 from the 205/55R17 you would have to overinflate the 205/55R17 it by 2psi. To get the discomfort level of the 225/45R17 from the 205/55R17 you would have to overinflate the 205/55R17 by 6psi. To get the discomfort level of the 225/40R18 from the 205/55R17 you would have to overinflate the 205/55R17 by 10psi. To get the discomfort level of the 225/35R19 from the 205/55R17 you would have to overinflate the 205/55R17 by 15psi.

 

Relative comfort levels

205/55R17

225/50R17 +2psi

225/45R17 +6psi

225/40R18 +10psi

225/35R19 +15psi

 

So as you can see, the 225/50R17 is very close to the comfort level of the 205/55R17 but the 225/35R19 is very far from the comfort level of the 205/55R17.

 

Note: all other things being equal, such as similar type of tyre, similar relative rim width, similar standard load or extra load, similar speed rating, etc. So because the lower profile tyres such as 225/40R18 and 225/35R19 tend to be available in XL (eXtra Load) and Y (186mph) speed rating, the relative discomfort levels are likely to be even great than shown in the above chart for those tyre sizes.

 

Edited 19 October, 2023 by Carlston

[dieselV6]

Below are some photos of my vRS using the Crystal 6J x 17 alloys, 205/55/R17 tyres (205/50/R17 will also do), can take winter chains, drive comfortably on cobblestones and gravel and protect the wheels from scuffs, also very good on autobahn right up to the top speed (main limit for driving at top speed is insufficient stock oil cooler on a TDI vRS).  Car raised only at the rear, using the parts listed in my earlier post, but you can see that the front lifted too because of the taller rear springs. No steel skid plate, and still undamaged stock plastic underbody engine cover, in fact the only damage I managed so far to underbody covers was by driving too fast into a flooded road, that tore 4 mounts off one of the rear underbody cover plates (already replaced).

 

I am posting it to put some practical example into rough road vRS suspension and wheels thread, as opposed to somewhat academic debacle on tyre sizes. These wheels work well on rough roads as well as on normal roads, and can be used in winter with snow chains. They also fit under the boot floor as a genuine full sized spare wheel    YMMV.

Edited 21 October, 2023 by dieselV6