2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Buses had been parked for weeks and somehow caught fire, cause is currently unknown. He make mention of how they were parked that made matters worse, and having been worked on a large bus fleet, that is exactly normal practise for parking every night, and buses that are not actually in use are also parked like that because of the sheer amount of real estate required to give them separation.

I've at least visited several bus depots, and can confirm how they're parked.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Another large fire, not on a ship or a multistorey car park, but a bus depot. Buses had been parked for weeks and somehow caught fire, cause is currently unknown. He make mention of how they were parked that made matters worse, and having been worked on a large bus fleet, that is exactly normal practise for parking every night, and buses that are not actually in use are also parked like that because of the sheer amount of real estate required to give them separation.

One thing he is right about though, is that diesel vehicles do not just burst into flames once they have cooled down, within minutes of switching off they are pretty cool, and certainly not hot enough to burst into fire. Its another one that we will have to wait to learn the actual cause of the fire.

One wonders how many of these fires, land or sea, are arson. Be odd for new vehicles but BEVs can lose very fast, as we know, as the new tech ie range etc, make EVs devalue quickly as new BEV tech just so much better than that of a few years ago whereas ICE tech seems to gave relatively stagnated.

28 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

One wonders how many of these fires, land or sea, are arson. Be odd for new vehicles but BEVs can lose very fast, as we know, as the new tech ie range etc, make EVs devalue quickly as new BEV tech just so much better than that of a few years ago whereas ICE tech seems to gave relatively stagnated.

I doubt that this was a case of arson, though, as it was not just electric buses. The electric buses had been there quite a while with major structural flaws, cracked frames due to the battery weight maybe, and had been taken out of service on safety grounds after only being used for 1 year. This was alleged to be a scrapyard and the manufacturer of the electric buses was bankrupt and gone out of business, so the buses would have been a valuable source of parts for others still in use.

Besides, with the Trump tariffs biting, the aluminium alone would be worth its weight in gold, but is no now more as it would have been consumed in the fire.

We will however, have to wait for the official fire investigation to determine if it was arson, and where the fire actually started to finally say if it was or not.

Well they keep on rolling on and off the Bulk Carriers and the occasional fire, and the occasional busses and scrap recycle yards go up.

The odd BEV goes up as well and all the time the vehicles get manufactured.

The vloggers vlog and the news stories are repeated by them.

Where will it all end.

When will Israel stop bombing and killing, and when will Russia?

How many vehicles were destroyed today in war zones, or in countries not at war?

Best people stick to horses, donkeys and camels and stay near home and Stop the Oil.

Edited 6 June, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@Graham Butcher We are doomed, doomed into damnation.

We all die sometime of something so whats the worry about a few ship fires or retired busses.

I have no idea of the death toll with these BEV fires compared to deaths in other fires.

Stagecoach have busses going on fire quite regularly, probably more regular than their service.

Edited 6 June, 20251 yr by Ootohere

51 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher We are doomed, doomed into damnation.

We all die sometime of something so whats the worry about a few ship fires or retired busses.

I have no idea of the death toll with these BEV fires compared to deaths in other fires.

Stagecoach have busses going on fire quite regularly, probably more regular than their service.

Nope none of that happening down here in my neck of the woods, we're very backwards here and living in the prehistoric age of the diesel bus, not a hint of an electric bus for miles here 🤣

Can you imagine the amount of coverage if it were electric stagecoach.

The unbalanced reporting nature must mean they are hiding something (!) the main stream media must keep a narrative (!) I like to be sure before I get on a stagecoach (!)

(you get your own tin foil hat)

Edited 6 June, 20251 yr by wyx087

Well, it did not take long for the investigation into the huge bus fire in Philly's bus dept. Arson for insurance claims and indeed arson full stop has been completely ruled out, the cause was wait for it... an electric bus that had its battery drained to a low SOC, and had all the isolation plugs etc removed and had been standing in the parking lot for simply ages, thus demonstrating just how volatile these batteries are, even when not being used or charging and all the safety measures had been in place with one notable exception, the physical clearance between the vehicles recommended by Thatcham for electric vehicles awaiting repair with known issues (the spaces shown are cars, so buses would require even larger spaces) This just goes to show the real hazards involved with batteries we currently have, most of which are Lithium-ion and like it or not they clearly do present a massively greater hazard to the environment then ICE vehicles as they do not have to meet these requirements because they are not anywhere near as dangerous.

The following has been extracted from the 2023 report from Thatcham Research, link is here Impact-of-BEV-Adoption-on-the-Repair-and-Insurance-Sectors-report-Innovate-UK-and-Thatcham-Research-FINAL.pdf

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

an electric bus that had its battery drained to a low SOC, and had all the isolation plugs etc removed and had been standing in the parking lot for simply ages

Batteries need to be stored at around 50% SoC.

More about the car carrier operated by Zodiac of London.

Edited 8 June, 20258 Jun by Graham Butcher

Storing / parking vehicles, BEV or ICE might require removing mirrors from interior or exterior, maybe glass as well.

Where there is Sun there might be a fire from the magnification / reflected heat.

Doomed, all of us, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Edited 9 June, 20259 Jun by Ootohere

This mini caught fire 2 days ago (petrol car) and even with the fire being as vicious as it was, once the fire brigade arrived on scene, 2 hoses deployed, the fire was effectively out in just 90 seconds.

Allegedly according to the person in the video, they had a BBQ on the front seat of the mini, WTF?

The final report on the car carrier Felicity Ace fire and subsequent sinking of the ship in March 2022 has just been released and the blame for the event has been placed apparently on the Porsche Taycan high voltage battery as the fire was observed to have started from the battery compartment beneath an electric Taycan, who knew??

Now we have to wait for the same report on the cause of the fire on the Freemantle Highway which was also carrying loads of electric Porsche Taycans and leaked photos of the Taycans burnt out along with ICE cars, and the photos show most of the Taycans body has been consumed for the fire as opposed to the shell remains on the other cars. The photos also show just how much the top deck of the vessel has warped with intense heat of the fire. Preliminary reports suggested the fire was started by once again, a Porsche Taycan, time will reveal the truth.

Panama-Felicity-Ace-Cargo-Fire-Sinking-March-2022.pdf

Despite the Luton Airport fire being started by a Diesel Range Rover, diesel was not responsible for the subsequent destruction of the other cars and the structure itself, all of that was done to the presence of other far more dangerous fuels such as petrol and electric car batteries which ignite for easier and burn at far higher temperatures.

As this video shows, diesel itself can even be used to put fires out.

50 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Despite the Luton Airport fire being started by a Diesel Range Rover, diesel was not responsible for the subsequent destruction of the other cars and the structure itself, all of that was done to the presence of other far more dangerous fuels such as petrol and electric car batteries which ignite for easier and burn at far higher temperatures.

Come on now, you are really stretching for that statement.

First, showing diesel putting out fire simply means the fire was missing the 3rd element needed for sustaining fire (oxygen).

Second, in the video it still said diesel can burn with help of other substance, in a car fire that would be other parts of vehicle. In the case for Luton airport JLR vehicle, it is probably other stuff in the engine bay.

Third, when you say "diesel was not responsible for subsequent......", you have completely ignored Liverpool car park fire report. The report explicitly stating running fuel spread the fire.

Forth, EV battery have previously been shown to be more difficult to be damaged (including ignite) externally than plastic fuel tanks.

Finally, is there more information that had surfaced for the Luton airport fire?

or do you just have a chip on your shoulder?

So it seems that the much applauded LFP battery is just as hazardous as NMC chemistry battery which is why I'm concerned that we are being lulled into a false sense of security and safety for all kinds reasons, vested interests, misinformation being given to decision and policy makers etc.

Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

So it seems that the much applauded LFP battery is just as hazardous as NMC chemistry battery which is why I'm concerned that we are being lulled into a false sense of security and safety for all kinds reasons, vested interests, misinformation being given to decision and policy makers etc.

Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries

The FLP greater safety is about its better resistance to damage, primarily.

Overcharging, like over filling ones fuel tank with petrol, is about the Battery Management System internal for the battery system and perhaps the charger itself.

I am all for greater checking of lithium, LFP, charging systems. I have more Lithium and LFP battery devices, from about £10 to £1k and non of the have shown anything but faultless charging dynamics with no hint of overheating.

There must be hundreds of millions, if not billions, of lithium powered devices and as with EV fires compared to ICE fires the numbers only confirm the general safety of these produce despite the occasional zealot digging out the odd incident.

Edited 16 August, 202516 Aug by lol-lol

Energy storage, regardless if it’s battery, petrol tank, whatever, is only as safe as the controller handling the safety parameters. Misconfigured controller will cause fire/explosion.

Until proven otherwise, any battery that is charging and goes into failure state (eg fire), the root cause will most probably to do with the controller. (BMS)

Unable to separate this relationship is like unable to tell fact from fiction.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

The FLP greater safety is about its better resistance to damage, primarily.

Overcharging, like over filling ones fuel tank with petrol, is about the Battery Management System internal for the battery system and perhaps the charger itself.

I am all for greater checking of lithium, LFP, charging systems. I have more Lithium and LFP battery devices, from about £10 to £1k and non of the have shown anything but faultless charging dynamics with no hint of overheating.

There must be hundreds of millions, if not billions, of lithium powered devices and as with EV fires compared to ICE fires the numbers only confirm the general safety of these produce despite the occasional zealot digging out the odd incident.

Agreed, but it is the severity of the problem if and when it happens. It is that aspect that they need to address. If they want the world to run electric cars, then there are still problems that they need to address.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Agreed, but it is the severity of the problem if and when it happens. It is that aspect that they need to address. If they want the world to run electric cars, then there are still problems that they need to address.

We already know the tools to treat lithium fires, usually fire blankets rather than foam or powder and not so much water unless there is nothing else and one does know what sort of reaction one will get with an electrical and chemical combined fire.

It seems the cheaper fibreglass blankets are OK for lithium fires but it sounds like the silca blankets are better but presently more costly.

There is a massive lack of fire detection and fighting ability at home, work and out in public places clearly. Car parks without detection systems or proper suppression systems. Should be fire blankets on every floor of a building, car parks included.

Probably get nicked in some places so auto alarmed i reckon.

Having spent quite a few days on fire fighting courses, one cannot call the fire brigade when a thousand mikes from land one gets a good appreciation so treat all types of fires, electrical, paper / clothing and oil with respect.

How many people gave tested fire detectors and fire blankets for cooking oil etc fires in there kitchen ? If it is 10% I would be pleasantly surprised.

Edited 16 August, 202516 Aug by lol-lol

I test my fire alarm every year. Recently also installed 2 additional smoke alarms in addition to the 3 standard: heat alarm in kitchen, smoke alarm in first and second floor.

A new interconnected one in converted garage, where the consumer unit and Tesla gateway lives. This is so that if things burn due to poor install while pulling 10+ kW for hours overnight, whole house will know as soon as smoke happens.

Another interconnected one above the 10+ years old solar inverter, at very top of the loft, above all the solar panels.

I have also got home wiring upgraded to latest wiring standard, mainly new metal consumer unit with RCD on everything.

I also have this in each consumer unit https://envirograf.com/product/enviroburst-auto-fire-protection/

It's all about risk management. Nothing is ever risk free.

Holistically, with main emphasis on climate issue, BEV and heat pumps are so much better than ICE cars and boilers. There is no perfect risk-free solution.

Edited 16 August, 202516 Aug by wyx087

On 16/08/2025 at 19:04, lol-lol said:

We already know the tools to treat lithium fires, usually fire blankets rather than foam or powder and not so much water unless there is nothing else and one does know what sort of reaction one will get with an electrical and chemical combined fire.

It seems the cheaper fibreglass blankets are OK for lithium fires but it sounds like the silca blankets are better but presently more costly.

There is a massive lack of fire detection and fighting ability at home, work and out in public places clearly. Car parks without detection systems or proper suppression systems. Should be fire blankets on every floor of a building, car parks included.

Probably get nicked in some places so auto alarmed i reckon.

Having spent quite a few days on fire fighting courses, one cannot call the fire brigade when a thousand mikes from land one gets a good appreciation so treat all types of fires, electrical, paper / clothing and oil with respect.

How many people gave tested fire detectors and fire blankets for cooking oil etc fires in there kitchen ? If it is 10% I would be pleasantly surprised.

That is the point, none of those thing you mention are effective at putting out a Lithium Ion fire as all they do is deprive the fire of the much need oxygen to continue, but the batteries generate masses of oxygen so they continue to burn unabated, as demonstrated with the recent of loss of 3 ships which were carrying BEV and they were flooded with CO2 which on normal fires will stop it dead in its tracks, along with anyone in the ships holds / decks that the CO2 was released into if the are not wearing BA sets.

Actually it has also been proven that the use of fire blankets also actually increases the risk to firefighters when removing the blanket.

There's logical inconsistency here.

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is the point, none of those thing you mention are effective at putting out a Lithium Ion fire as all they do is deprive the fire of the much need oxygen to continue, but the batteries generate masses of oxygen so they continue to burn unabated

Actually it has also been proven that the use of fire blankets also actually increases the risk to firefighters when removing the blanket.

You say blanket are ineffective because it works by deprive fire of oxygen but batteries generate own oxygen.

So you are effectively saying fire blanket would not affect the way fire burns.

But you then say there's increased risk on removing the blanket. Is this risk due to fire burning more violently? If so, it is contradictory to the first statement.

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

as demonstrated with the recent of loss of 3 ships which were carrying BEV and they were flooded with CO2 which on normal fires will stop it dead in its tracks, along with anyone in the ships holds / decks that the CO2 was released into if the are not wearing BA sets.

Which 3 ships?

Have they been confirmed that fire were started in BEV's?

Are there less EV,s on fire, or just less reporting of these in the UK?

Less major events as far as closure of roads and car parks etc

Are people maybe being more careful over their charging and chargers?

Headline 'ELECTRIC CARS'. but story is Electric Vehicles.

So when is it actually just BEV cars / vans and when does statistics also include, e-Bikes, e-Scooters catching fire?

Edited 18 August, 202518 Aug by Ootohere

The stat reported by QBE (from the screenshot) is rather small, difficult to make out a trend. But still interesting that 232 EV fires in 2024 vs 131 in 2022, less than double fire incidents despite number of EV's more than doubled.

From the way it talks about EV numbers. I don't feel it includes those lower quality and thus higher risk e-scooter or ebikes.

Less reporting can be viewed in 2 different ways. I would see it as becoming normal, nothing is ever 100% safe, but as EV themselves becoming normal, unexpected events associated with them are less attention grabbing.

Of course, there's always the conspiracy view: something something about narrative.