Valve stem seals gone after head gasket repair

[Catherine41]

OK so I've attached the invoice and photo of the engine, I've also added a photo of the exhaust with the engine running, no smoke that I can see

[xman]

Oooo its a 6 valve HTP engine.

 

So that blows my previous hypothesis out the water 😐

 

 

Edited 28 February by xman

[Paws4Thot]

@Catherine41 Well, if nothing else this proves that they should have and did not replace the exhaust valve oil seals.

 

We'd need to see a video of the engine running and a still of the inside of the exhaust tailpipe. Also, and this is speculation for now, they may have destroyed the catalytic converter by oil poisoning it.

[Catherine41]

1 minute ago, Paws4Thot said:

@Catherine41 Well, if nothing else this proves that they should have and did not replace the exhaust valve oil seals.

 

We'd need to see a video of the engine running and a still of the inside of the exhaust tailpipe. Also, and this is speculation for now, they may have destroyed the catalytic converter by oil poisoning it.

 

[Catherine41]

10 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

@Catherine41 Well, if nothing else this proves that they should have and did not replace the exhaust valve oil seals.

 

We'd need to see a video of the engine running and a still of the inside of the exhaust tailpipe. Also, and this is speculation for now, they may have destroyed the catalytic converter by oil poisoning it.

I've tried to post a video a few times now but it keeps saying file too large, even when only for a few seconds of video so I don't know, I guess I just need to get it to a garage to look at it and tell me if its something the original garage should cover 

[Paws4Thot]

Just now, Catherine41 said:

I've tried to post a video a few times now but it keeps saying file too large, even when only for a few seconds of video so I don't know, I guess I just need to get it to a garage to look at it and tell me if its something the original garage should cover 

Ah, I can do software solutions.

Get yourself a YouTube account, post your video there, and link it here using the link (chain) tool.

[Jocko]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

I don't believe the credit card company will get involved in any way shape or form.

Maybe not in France but it is built into UK consumer law.

It’s part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that means your credit card provider is jointly and severally responsible for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by a retailer or trader. It allows you to make a claim against your credit card company to get your money back if a retailer or trader lets you down and refuses to honour the contract properly - including if it goes bust.

[J.R.]

I understand section 75 and have used it myself in the past, nothing that has been written here, after filtering out the misinformation suggests any breach of contract or misrepresentation and I really do not believe the credit card company will involve themselves, I hope I am wrong, but just think about how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people are unhappy with repairs carried out by garages and what proportion of them are paid for by credit card.

 

35 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

 Well, if nothing else this proves that they should have and did not replace the exhaust valve oil seals.

 

It proves that they did not replace them but they did not claim to have, your assertion that they should have done carries no weight legally I am afraid and has no foundation mechanically

 

I have had to replace all 8 valves on a Sierra DOHC, the stem seals were unworn, it had never used oil, they were undamaged as the stem bent where the radius of the tulip intersects with the straight stem well below the area swept by the stem seals which sit on top of the valve guides not underneath them, its pretty much impossible for a bent valve to damage a stem seal unless the guide was fractured, the valve sticks in the lower position when the bent part of the head touches the valve seat, the engine will only have turned a few revolutions before stopping.

 

If the guides were replaced you would be 100% correct to expect the seals to have also been replaced.

 

The OP is repeating claims made by a garage who in even the best of circumstances I would not believe without question, unless she can confirm that the vehicle smokes heavily on the over-run then I respectfully suggest that we have no reason to suspect the valve stem seals other than the claims of the garage, to me if it was not burning oil through the guides before it wont be now, far more likely is a deformed piston crown and pinched or fractured compression rings and bore damage.

[J.R.]

"No smoke from exhaust that I've noticed but it's burning through oil (at least 5 litres in the last few months)"

 

Burning that much oil through the valve guides would have been very visible unless a huge mileage has been done.

 

Several months of use also diminishes any responsibility that the garage might have, having the valve timing checked would have been a very good idea when the vehicle was returned running rough, low on power and stalling, having it done now would indicate if they had made a mistake but that would have no bearing on oil consumption, also to further muddy the waters it sounds like another garage may have replaced the MAP sensor.

[J.R.]

The exhaust valves were cheap!

[xman]

It's rather strange that all 3 exhaust valves were damaged but none of the inlet valves. If oil is being burnt as blue smoke then it's likely thats oil drawn in through the inlet valve seals, not exhaust valves or overpressured crankcase oil coming back through the PCV.

 

As @J.R. points out it could be ring related, bore damage maybe even a piston with a small hole where a valve punched it.

 

They earlier did offer to fix it for £300+ perhaps @Catherine41 should accept if they will still do that but can guarantee it will be fixed and warranty (6 months min) the work.

 

Maybe there has been too much confrontation now to pursue this solution.

 

@Catherine41 should take @thomasaspin advice and pop over to Ashtons Autoworx in Lees Oldham and ask for free advice and a quote.

 

 

 

[Catherine41]

3 minutes ago, xman said:

It's rather strange that all 3 exhaust valves were damaged but none of the inlet valves. If oil is being burnt as blue smoke then it's likely thats oil drawn in through the inlet valve seals, not exhaust valves or overpressured crankcase oil coming back through the PCV.

 

As @J.R. points out it could be ring related, bore damage maybe even a piston with a small hole where a valve punched it.

 

They earlier did offer to fix it for £300+ perhaps @Catherine41 should accept if they will still do that but can guarantee it will be fixed and warranty (6 months min) the work.

 

Maybe there has been too much confrontation now to pursue this solution.

 

@Catherine41 should take @thomasaspin advice and pop over to Ashtons Autoworx in Lees Oldham and ask for free advice and a quote.

 

 

 

Thanks @xman yes @thomasaspin has offered to take a look for me, I think thats the best option as its all speculation until someone actually looks at it, thanks everyone for your input and advice 😊

[J.R.]

35 minutes ago, xman said:

t's rather strange that all 3 exhaust valves were damaged but none of the inlet valves. If oil is being burnt as blue smoke then it's likely thats oil drawn in through the inlet valve seals, not exhaust valves or overpressured crankcase oil coming back through the PCV.

Dependant on the combustion chamber design, scavenging and valve durations it is often the case that only one set of valves makes contact, there is also the variable of the camshaft positions at the point of belt breakage or slippage on only one pulley.

 

I have a feeling that on my Sierra it may only have been the exhaust valves I replaced, it was over 3 decades ago.

 

As you rightly point out, even if people disagree with my comments regarding bent valves not causing stem seal damage, damaged exhaust valves cannot have any bearing on oil consumption as there is always a positive pressure between the combustion chamber and the exhaust port.