E10 petrol vs E5 petrol

[mccririck]

Has anyone experimented to see how much better mpg you can get with E5?

[Ootohere]

Plenty have tried it and there are dozens of threads.

Even if no better MPG with the E5 over the E10 the engine might feel smother on the higher octane.

 

Tesco Momentum 99 or Sainsburys Super Unleaded 97 ron min might be a couple of quid a tank more than their 95 unleaded but no more than others E10 95.

 

Why not just try it and report back? 

[mccririck]

2 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Plenty have tried it and there are dozens of threads.

Even if no better MPG with the E5 over the E10 the engine might feel smother on the higher octane.

 

Tesco Momentum 99 or Sainsburys Super Unleaded 97 ron min might be a couple of quid a tank more than their 95 unleaded but no more than others E10 95.

 

Why not just try it and report back? 

Company car, they'll frown upon me using it.

[Ootohere]

Depends what you fill up with now and the price you pay.

If no more expensive then no harm.    But it will be with your Shell card because Shell v-power + is a silly cost.

 

 

petrol.pdf

[mccririck]

We have shell cards. They can be used at Shell, Esso, Morrisons, Gulf

[Ootohere]

ESSO Super unleaded is distributed by Greenergy in Scotland which produces Tesco Momentum 99 & are part owned by Tesco.

 

But the e5 is more expensive than the e10 but can be cheaper than others e5 at some filling stations. 

The Gulf Super Unleaded is fine but same story, cost.

 

Check Petrol Prices.com      I used to get Super Unleaded at the Esso beside Hillend or Gulf at Liberton Brae but only when i was not using Tesco Momentum 99. 

[Gerrycan]

As rooted intimated there are two aspects to consider:

a) that the 5% (or less) ethanol content is only available in higher (more expensive) octane fuels and that could account for a couple of percent improvement but only IF your car is designed to utilise the higher octane.

b) ethanol has a lower calorific value than petrol by volume but the small difference of ethanol content has a minimal effect on consumption assuming the ethanol/petrol mix is not compromised by poor storage.

 

In Australia you can get an E85 ethanol mix but while it has an exceptionally high octane rating the few cars that are adapted to run on it or normal petrol will achieve about 30% poorer consumption on the high ethanol fuel than petrol. Some high performance cars optimised for E85 get great performance from the 105 Octane rated fuel but still use lots of it.

 

Personally I don't think you would notice much difference between the E5 or E10 in your PHEV. What does your manual recommend?

 

Fun fact: diesel, petrol and ethanol have similar calorific values by weight.

[Ootohere]

You are buying the Octane,  you are getting the Ron, and the minimum ron.  95 ron min, or 97 min or 99 minimum.

You are guaranteed what the minimum energy is per litre. 

Same as with Winter Spec petrol or Diesel.   & Formulated for the volatility @ temperatures & It is not diluted in strength / energy by a changed formulation to stop it being as hygroscopic.   Storage of the fuels and the ingredients of the fuel being important.  

 

The Up to 10% in E10 & the Up to 5% in E5 in the UK is just that. 

The Ethanol producers have not got the assistance they should have from the UK government and ethanol is not cheap so there are fuels with nothing near the Up to % they could have.

 

Then as far as producing Bio.  A Company has just put 75 employees out of a job.

The issue is Brexit and competition from the EU and rules and legislation  as far as i see the reasons they are given for them not making the profits required.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c28044mj7nvo

 

 

 

388380a097b04fe693a8c27db8bb4974 (1).pdf 6ca06d648b9541e78fa838fece4a1a23 (1).pdf

Edited 31 March by Rooted

[mccririck]

Well my PHEV has a sticker showing E5 and E10 so I believe it can use either and would guess it can make use of the higher octane rating.

[TheWanderer]

I just pop 50ml of EcoMax into a tank of E10 (95), it works and adds about 20 miles a tank.

[Ootohere]

Yes it can use either. 

For the WLTP that is done on 95 ron.   95 ron can be  E5 or E10 and it  is not supposed to affect the economy.   (but then the Government lies.) 

 

Yes the 1.4 TSI can make the use or benefit from a higher octane over the MINIMUM octane they show for Europe / EU. 

[Ootohere]

@TheWanderer     Wonderful.  Magic juice.   

Why not just buy the higher octane fuel?

 

Can you buy the Additive and get the higher Octane for less than Greenergy can when producing the E5 99 ron minimum petrol?

 

Looks as though it is taking 95 octane minimum to 97 ron minimum so the same as Sainsbury,s Super Unleaded 97 octane.

Edited 31 March by Rooted

[TheWanderer]

I just use petrol prices app, get the cheapest & nearest to me, add a shot of Millers EcoMax to a tank full. 

 

It's cheaper than any 97/98 or 99 octane stuff,I have a choice of Jet, JS, BP (Bloody Pricey), Esso (regularly closed), Texaco or Shell (Bloody Extortion) I'm retired with HMRC screwing me on "Emergency Tax" and I have 4 bottles of EcoMax in my possession. So EcoMax will do. 

 

The only time I get to use Momentum 99 is when I'm in the WoE and I stop at Tesco Minehead to fuel before I leave the area for my homeward bound journey and it often gets put in with the remnants of 95 with EcoMax in it and it often shows that I have nearly 400 miles in range as a consequence.

 

And I'm not paying between £1.60 & £1.67 per litre when bog standard 95 is £1.42-£1.48 per litre and I most certainly won't be paying the high end prices for a bog standard 95.

Edited 31 March by TheWanderer

[Ootohere]

@TheWanderer  Getting off 'Emergency Tax' PDQ would be simply clever. 

 

 

Do you not have Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, Costco or others supermarket fuels to get the E10 95 ron at cheaper to then add the Octane Booster to? 

 

I see. 

Edited 31 March by Rooted

[TheWanderer]

Nope, nearest Asda is Sheerwater (Woking), Nearest Morrisons is Woking, Tesco is Aldershot or Broadbridge Heath, Costco is Farnborough.

 

Godalming JS is only worth it, if I'm going there or Waitrose across the road, which I do as it avoids the new speed cameras on the A25.

 

Apparently HMRC are adjusting my tax code as of the new tax year. So I'll have to see what they take off of my pension, which has just gone up by 6.65%, only for HMRC to tax me at 20%! 

Edited 31 March by TheWanderer

[Ootohere]

It will be nice when they pay back your over payments then or they make the adjustment to your code so you only pay correct amount and they over payment is refunded. 

[TheWanderer]

Shame my council tax has gone up by 5% now as well. £3350 pa. Band F! 

 

Soon be in a bloody campervan or static caravan at this rate.

Edited 31 March by TheWanderer

[Ootohere]

The news reporting the Freeze in Council tax in Scotland are partly right. 

The councils could choose and not all did.

 

The Water / sewage chargers are up.

Edited 31 March by Rooted

[mccririck]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

The news reporting the Freeze in Council tax in Scotland are partly right. 

The councils could choose and not all did.

 

The Water / sewage chargers are up.

Yeah not all did because they cannot afford it. The SNP just wanted to use it to get brownie points but the additional library closures, swimming pool closures etc etc will become apparent in time.

[SurreyJohn]

On 31/03/2024 at 17:41, Rooted said:

@TheWanderer  Getting off 'Emergency Tax' PDQ would be simply clever. 

 

 

Do you not have Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, Costco or others supermarket fuels to get the E10 95 ron at cheaper to then add the Octane Booster to? 

 

I see. 

 

All these are quite expensive, yesterday in Trowbridge E10 unleaded was 139.8 at Applegreen and 139.9 at Tesco.  
 

I bought E5 99ron at Tesco for 147.9 (about 5% more), but I find improves mileage by about 7% upto about 13% urban, as pulls better at lower revs so DSG box changes up quicker

 

[Winston_Woof]

45 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

 

All these are quite expensive, yesterday in Trowbridge E10 unleaded was 139.8 at Applegreen and 139.9 at Tesco.  
 

I bought E5 99ron at Tesco for 147.9 (about 5% more), but I find improves mileage by about 7% upto about 13% urban, as pulls better at lower revs so DSG box changes up quicker

 

that doesn't sound expensive to me, just normal

Vanilla E10 around  me (just between Wigan & Manchester) is between 138.9 & 142.9

[nta16]

I'm a fan of Millers Oils products and have used a couple of their petrol additives for my old British over-priced and over-valued car called a "classic".  I used them as an experiment against using Tesco Monmentum99 or Shell V-Power and as it worked out a few pence per litre cheaper and the higher octane fuels with greater cleaning additives packages weren't always available where I was driving the car.  I've no idea if, or how much, they help with mpg as I didn't check or can't remember now.

 

As with the the higher octane fuels with greater cleaning additives packages I would use it on a tankful both pre and post services and MoTs.

 

Downsides

• farting about at the petrol pump, 1ml per litre,
• keeping the bottle upright for not overfilling the measuring section (less of an issue when your fuel tank and filler pipe hold more than 6 gallons),
• keeping the product away from heat (solar gain inside a car boot)
• the two year life (particularly if you don't notice it's already a year into that when you bought it, but again with bigger tanks and higher mileage use this would be less of an issue.

 

Millers Petrol Power ECOMAX – Multi-Shot - (other makes and suppliers are available)

"FEATURES AND BENEFITS

• Increases octane rating of unleaded fuel by up to 2 numbers resulting in increased power and MPG.
• Enhanced detergency package for quicker clean up and prolonged petrol injector cleanliness.
• Improved inlet manifold and valve cleanliness condition.
• Maintains catalyst efficiency and helps to invigorate catalytic convertors.
• Improved combustion and engine cleanliness drastically reduces emissions of hydrocarbon (HC), carbon monoxide (CO) and nitrous oxide (NOx).
• Protects the fuel system from E5/E10 ethanol corrosion."

"PRODUCT INFORMATION

A fuel treatment and detergent package that adds up to 2 octane numbers (RON) to unleaded fuel.  Ideal for use as a pre-MOT test clean-up treatment.

1 x 500ml bottle treats: 500 Litres (10 x 50L tanks) of unleaded fuel".

 

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/petrol-power-ecomax-2/

 

TDS - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/6205-Petrol-Power-Ecomax-Multi-Shot-4.pdf

 

[nta16]

On 30/03/2024 at 18:12, Rooted said:

Greenergy in Scotland which produces Tesco Momentum 99 & are part owned by Tesco

I've probably asked you this before and you've given me the answer but I've forgot - do Tesco still part own or have a stake in Greenergy as in the back of my mind was Greenergy had outgrown the likes of Tesco (they've certainly grown)?

 

[Ootohere]

@nta16  To be honest i have no idea where they are now as far as Tesco PLC, as in who the are as far as Owners, Shareholders, Partners or investors and how Greenergy work with Royal Dutch Shell as partners in importation and storage of base fuel. 

[Ootohere]

@nta16   You only quoted part of the line posted.

The important bit was the ESSO & Greenergy.     They do not supply ESSO in all regions of the UK.  Or did not, which is why the Ethanol content can be different. 

Edited 2 April by Rooted