Skoda Estelle Rapid (1988 Model) Water Pump required 

 

Can group members provide assistance.. I require a 'Water Pump' plus gasket seal or advice on finding a work around solution 

 

Have group members experienced problems in this area.... In seeking replacement or making a gasket seal ??

 

I look forward to replies 

 

[email protected] 

If you don't care about originality, then a Davies&Craig EWP80 is what I went with.

It's an electric waterpump that goes into the hose before the mechanical water pump, which I left in place "just in case".

Works wonders and keeps the car cool even when pushing it to 160kmh or city driving.

I'm not sure if a Felicia waterpump could fit, the mating surface looked mighty similar, the only difference I could see is that it had an engine mount moulded into the casing as the Felicia engine hangs from the water pump

Have you had a look and considered also posting in Skoda Classic Cars & Parts For Sale. - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/forum/406-skoda-classic-cars-parts-for-sale/

 

If the gasket is paper then that's easy, otherwise you could use an appropriate gasket sealant as the gasket, @Thefeliciahacker would be able to advise on both.

 

Good luck.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Have you had a look and considered also posting in Skoda Classic Cars & Parts For Sale. - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/forum/406-skoda-classic-cars-parts-for-sale/

 

If the gasket is paper then that's easy, otherwise you could use an appropriate gasket sealant as the gasket, @Thefeliciahacker would be able to advise on both.

 

Good luck.

 

Oh thanks for suggestion @nta16 😏.. btw @Thefeliciahacker can you suggest a gasket sealant that I could use ... To ensure I'm using a correct workaround solution > can you direct me with an ebay link item ? ✌️😉

1 hour ago, Iris_Heart said:

If you don't care about originality, then a Davies&Craig EWP80 is what I went with.

It's an electric waterpump that goes into the hose before the mechanical water pump, which I left in place "just in case".

Works wonders and keeps the car cool even when pushing it to 160kmh or city driving.

I'm not sure if a Felicia waterpump could fit, the mating surface looked mighty similar, the only difference I could see is that it had an engine mount moulded into the casing as the Felicia engine hangs from the water pump

Thank you for the reply but if I can I'll always try and source the original item .. but obviously sometimes we have to think outside the norm 😬

8 minutes ago, RichardStandard10 said:

can you suggest a gasket sealant that I could use

Living in Sheffield, Hermatite, all day every day. Check whether red or green is more applicable since I can't remember and don't have either to hand.

Edited 1 June, 20242 yr by Paws4Thot

2 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

Living in Sheffield, Hermatite, all day every day. Check whether red or green is more applicable since I can't remember and don't have either to hand.

It seems Hermatite is NO longer produced 😬👀  https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/10936/red-hermetite-alternatives  

I would advise to use a gasket, made out of gasket paper.
Locally produced flexoid is excellent, but if you can source some permanite even beter.
I would steer clear of any rtv stuff

11 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I would advise to use a gasket, made out of gasket paper.
Locally produced flexoid is excellent, but if you can source some permanite even beter.
I would steer clear of any rtv stuff

Oh thank you for that information @Thefeliciahacker do you have details where I can buy this flexoid online?  Could I use the old gasket with sealant? 

@Thefeliciahacker @RichardStandard10 I've never made a water pump gasket, but I've made thermostat gaskets for Ford Kent and Pinto, BL A and B series and Vauxhall HA and HB engines from Cornflakes packets. That said I did use a smear of Red Hermatite as well.

59 minutes ago, RichardStandard10 said:

Could I use the old gasket with sealant

That's the worst tbh. 

As you live in the UK you can get flexoid everywhere. 

It's a local company 

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

That's the worst tbh. 

As you live in the UK you can get flexoid everywhere. 

It's a local company 

You are a legend @Thefeliciahacker 😏 what thickness would you suggest 👀  I've found listing on ebay and it asks what thickness the buyer requires 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225058385673 

 

 

 

 

Just now, RichardStandard10 said:

You are a legend @Thefeliciahacker 😏 what thickness would you suggest 👀  I've found listing on ebay and it asks what thickness the buyer requires 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225058385673 

 

 

 

 

Would gasket sealant would you suggest with this ?

56 minutes ago, RichardStandard10 said:

what thickness would you suggest

1mm is perfectly adequate.
 

 

55 minutes ago, RichardStandard10 said:

Would gasket sealant would you suggest with this ?

no clean surfaces thoroughly and you are golden

If your surfaces are all good then you only need a paper gasket and in theory you should only ever need a paper gasket, but in the real world of old cars after 30+ years of actually driving old cars as they were intended as "dailies", work, commuting to work (300 & 500 miles for many months as well), holidays and club events in UK and parts of Europe - sometimes a sealant is required.  I would always try 'paper' gasket only where I could but it didn't always work.  And I too have very occasionally made my own paper gaskets, it's easy, a  small ball pein hammer to carefully mark out the shape and cut out the holes in the gasket paper, then cut and tidy up with scissors as required, or use a hole punch where you can if you have them.   

 

The best of the few sealants I have used for coolant was Hylomar Hylotyte Red 100, which as far as I can see is still available, and better for coolant than their Universal Blue.

 

https://hylomar.com/en/hylotyte-red-100/

 

 

 

Edited 1 June, 20242 yr by nta16

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

The best of the few sealants I have used for coolant was Hylomar Hylotyte Red 100, which as far as I can see is still available, and better for coolant than their Universal Blue.

Also @RichardStandard10 Well, this certainly looks the part for sealing joints at water system temperatures.

On 01/06/2024 at 21:21, nta16 said:

If your surfaces are all good then you only need a paper gasket and in theory you should only ever need a paper gasket, but in the real world of old cars after 30+ years of actually driving old cars as they were intended as "dailies", work, commuting to work (300 & 500 miles for many months as well), holidays and club events in UK and parts of Europe - sometimes a sealant is required.  I would always try 'paper' gasket only where I could but it didn't always work.  And I too have very occasionally made my own paper gaskets, it's easy, a  small ball pein hammer to carefully mark out the shape and cut out the holes in the gasket paper, then cut and tidy up with scissors as required, or use a hole punch where you can if you have them.   

 

The best of the few sealants I have used for coolant was Hylomar Hylotyte Red 100, which as far as I can see is still available, and better for coolant than their Universal Blue.

 

https://hylomar.com/en/hylotyte-red-100/

 

 

 

Thank you @nt

 

On 01/06/2024 at 21:21, nta16 said:

If your surfaces are all good then you only need a paper gasket and in theory you should only ever need a paper gasket, but in the real world of old cars after 30+ years of actually driving old cars as they were intended as "dailies", work, commuting to work (300 & 500 miles for many months as well), holidays and club events in UK and parts of Europe - sometimes a sealant is required.  I would always try 'paper' gasket only where I could but it didn't always work.  And I too have very occasionally made my own paper gaskets, it's easy, a  small ball pein hammer to carefully mark out the shape and cut out the holes in the gasket paper, then cut and tidy up with scissors as required, or use a hole punch where you can if you have them.   

 

The best of the few sealants I have used for coolant was Hylomar Hylotyte Red 100, which as far as I can see is still available, and better for coolant than their Universal Blue.

 

https://hylomar.com/en/hylotyte-red-100/

 

 

 

Thank you @nta16 once again ... The recommendation is invaluable... Ordered via ebay £6.95 including post which is very reasonable to be fair. 

 

Managed to source a new / old stock water pump in the UK for an absolute bargain... £25 😉😬👀 

Sourcing an alternative radiator fan @nta16 @Paws4Thot is proving to be a hard challenge to say the least. 

 

Does anyone know what size the original would have been ?  Fitting the fan behind the radiator rather than some cars which have the fan fitted on the front... Does the fan suck air inwards or blow outwardly?? 

 

Tried sourcing a MGB Kenlowe fan 😬👀... Does anyone on this forum have a spare old fan 😬 ? 

Fan in front of rad blows, behind sucks.  Depends on your wiring but fit as large as you can to the radiator.  You can get slimline fans that give a bit more space.

 

Only as an example Comex (Revotec) 11" (high power) fan to give you ideas of air movement and electric power requirements. -  https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/files/transfer/technical/doc/comex_high_power_11_inch_specification_2.pdf

 

And Comex Slimline 11" - https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/files/transfer/technical/doc/comex_11_inch_specification.pdf

 

Anything less than 150W is unacceptable in a vehicle nowadays. 

I would advise for at least 200W fan. 

Ideally in pull configuration. 

You can even get a 2 speed fan for extra safety and comfort. 

250W borderline can keep our engines cool in the later Felicias... 

Felicia with 130W fan and no shroud overheat daily in GR 

The best thing to use with paper gaskets is loctite 5923.

Nothing else no rtv nonsense. 

Edited 4 June, 20242 yr by Thefeliciahacker

Only as an example the Comex 12" (High Power) fan is about 150w (12.5a)  these were fitted as replacements to standard MGBs, on my 1973 Midget which was used as a "daily" on unrestricted milage insurance policy, and I didn't drive it like it was some precious museum piece, I had a (previous make)  9" Revotec fan which I ran for 5 years then as I uprated the car a bit went on to an uprated 9" Revotec fan, can't remember if it was a Comex, which was 10 years ago and that's still on the car (AFAIK).

 

Again as example only, MGB replacement fan. - https://revotec.com/product/9-0-225mm-high-power-fan/

 

The fan efficiency depends on more than the electric load of the motor but generally the bigger fans obviously have bigger motors needing more electricity.

 

I lifted this off a post from 12 years ago by a chap called Nick Jenkins -

"A puller fan is more efficient than a pusher.  A straight-blade fan is more efficient than a curved-blade fan, but louder.  Cubic Foot per Minute (CFM) ratings are not certified; it's the manufacturer's claim, based on their testing. I don't like fans that zip-tie to the radiator, but a lot of people are okay with it."

This I think is correct,, I forget and often mix up opposites, so as always with any information from any source check and cross reference it with if possible two different reliable sources, the internet is a great place for misinformation and I must have done my share.

 

Good point about noise, generally a bigger or more powerful fan makes more noise, not too much worry on older cars like Skodas and MGs, part of the joy is the sounds you can hear from them.

 

The Midget and MGB are different to a 1988 Estelle 2 Rapid 130 but were both more horsepower, what was the original 130 fan motor power (I don't know I had my 130 Rapid new in 1986)? 

 

Oh, the certainty of youth, Loctite 5923 may, or may not, be the best thing to use on paper gaskets but it's certainly not the only thing, for decades gaskets on old, used, cars have successfully sealed using no sealants and other sealants.  A mate who works on "classic" race engines uses Wellseal and he gave me a liquid version but it's a bit too liquid for my liking and use.

 

As long as the surfaces are reasonably good and must be clear any appropriate sealant for the job, if applied correctly, should seal.  You can go with whichever you prefer or think does the job the best.  I liked the Red 100 as it's semi-setting, but so are others, in my experience of the cooling system on my car with the use of a coolant that will find any small weeps, Red100 worked best for me.  

 

You talked a lot but said common things 

I mentioned 150w to give a very good rule of thumb. 

Peper gaskets need dressings and NOT self setting rubber sealants. 

The same apllies to cork gaskets. 

Flexoid will seal it if you have surface imperfections you use thicker paper gaskets. 

Ideally you want the thinnest you can get aways with. 

We don't have to agree, and I don't agree with your absolutes such as anything less than 150w is unacceptable, you may well be correct but we, you and I, don't know what was originally in the 130, the fan size and type and the motor number of watts power.  The 130 is an older and simpler car than your Felicia, I can remember the rad is at the front but not its size or fan with it.

 

You can say what you want from your teachings and 'book learning' I only give my experience and that of others that I know or have been told from and I can assure you in 30+ years of actually driving various "classics" in the way they were designed to be driven and used and not like a museum piece in servicing, maintenance and repairs I've dealt with a few cork and paper and other material gaskets in real world application and use and had advice from experts of the various "classics" and their engines so I dispute your absolutes about what can be used successfully with paper gaskets.

 

I 've heard from fully qualified engineers and time-served mechanics what should and shouldn't be necessary or work but it hasn't always applied in my experience.  The gasket is to cover imperfections, all cars are full of build and engineering compromises, and mistakes, and matters generally may get worse with time, age and use, abuse and neglect,

 

Cork gaskets, well they can now be a right PITA, perhaps 50, 60, 70+ years ago they were good or fine but they weren't when I used them.

 

Now if you look back you will see I suggested you as the person that would know about sealant if the gasket wasn't paper, and I put  to use 'paper' only where possible, the Red 100 was a general suggestion for general use on the cooling system gaskets IF required.  I too have always found the water pump paper gaskets that I've fitted to be fine by themselves but I've no idea about a 130 water pump and its gasket, but to repeat, in my experience of the few sealants I've tried on cooling system gaskets the Red 100 was the best, I applied it to the gaskets where previous fresh 'paper' gaskets had failed to fully seal, (yes I did prepare the surfaces with just the 'paper' or 'paper' and Red 100).

 

You will learn latter in life that some things become less certain than you thought or knew they were previously and even not correct, even the VW engineers make mistakes and have to make changes. 😉

 

@RichardStandard10 just to be clear I wasn't suggesting you necessarily need to use the Red 100 on a 'paper' waterpump gasket, I've not had to but I've no idea about for a 130.  I suggested the Red 100 for general use on the cooling system and IF a 'paper' gasket wasn't available, though we went through how to made one.

 

As you probably learnt from your rebuild you have to go about any work thoroughly and take your time and however long you think it'll take and whatever you thing you'll need Sod's Law it takes a lot longer and you haven't got the one thing you need to do or finish the job.

 

As I put I used a coolant that would find any weep potential so that made things worse that using an ordinary 18 months / 2yr change coolant.

 

Take no notice of disagreements as it means you are at least getting different information. experience, beliefs, opinions and views. 🙃