Hey guys, I just bought a brand new Škoda Fabia with the MPI 1.0.

It’s my first car, hurray!

I’m wondering — what’s the max RPMs I can drive on the highway?

As expected, the engine isn’t very strong, so 3000 RPMs in fifth gear amounts to about 90 km/h which is quite slow for our highways where the speed limit is 130 km/h.

I’ve gone up to 3500 RPMs, but I reckon it’s not advisable to go above that during the break-in period?

 

Thanks!

Just don’t go into the red line*. Anything else is ok, drive it like you want to*.

Better, if anything, to use the gears and keep it revving freely than labouring in a high gear. *

 

* Purely in my own personal opinion 😄.

Welcome to the BRISKODA forums, JeffffeJ - a good choice for a first car.

 

Performance data for the MPI 1.0 motor are shown here

 

The motor is normally-aspirated (no turbocharger) with a 5-speed gearbox and a relatively low power output. It will need to be recognised that the (quite heavy) Fabia Mk 4 fitted with this motor will not be a 'rocket ship', but that's fine.

 

This 2016 forum discussion related to running-in/breaking-in/driving-in Fabia Mk 3 cars.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/387337-new-fabia-running-in-advice-please/

 

Apparently Fabia Mk 3 Owner Manuals contained the following guidance

 

Driving in the engine
The engine has to be run in during the first 1 500 kilometres. During this period, the driving style decides on the quality of the driving-in process. During the first 1,000 km ,we recommend not driving faster than 3/4 of the maximum permissible engine speed, not to drive at full throttle and not to use a trailer. In the range of 1,000 to 1,500 kilometres, the engine load can be increased up to the maximum permitted engine speed.

 

I cannot find any equivalent guidance in the the Fabia Mk 4 Owner's Manual, but the advice above will apply similarly to your car.

 

During the breaking-in period, when cruising on a motorway/highway at a steady speed - in your case (say) with the motor running in the 3000-4000rpm range - traditional received wisdom has been to let the revs drop occasionally (say to 3000rpm) to give the motor a 'rest'. However, as the MPI 1.0 motor's maximum power output is at 6300rpm, you need not be concerned about using 3500rpm. Drive the car in a manner you are comfortable with. As Classic has advised above, avoid letting the motor labour in an over-high gear and don't thrash it 

 

This (Australian) article may be of interest

 

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/do-you-need-to-run-in-new-cars/

Edited 13 July, 20241 yr by DerekU

7 hours ago, JeffffeJ said:

I’m wondering — what’s the max RPMs I can drive on the highway?

As expected, the engine isn’t very strong, so 3000 RPMs in fifth gear amounts to about 90 km/h which is quite slow for our highways where the speed limit is 130 km/h.

I’ve gone up to 3500 RPMs, but I reckon it’s not advisable to go above that during the break-in period?

More like 4_500 for 50 minutes in the hour, dropping back to 3_000 for the other 10. Which also gives you a cruising speed at about 135km/h.

 

Also, we'll can give you better advice if you fill in an approximate location, eg "France".

Thank you everyone for your replies and your advice 😀

@classicWhat is considered labouring? Like when the engine struggles to accelerate due to a too high gear? Is there a RPMs range where the engine is labouring the most? Like 1000-2500 RPMs or similar?

@DerekUThank you, I’ll also go through that thread and the article.

@Paws4ThotI’ve added the info to my profile, thanks for the comment. 

@JeffffeJ Yes, I would say below 1500 rpm is definitely time to change down a gear with a small petrol engine.

Modern engines are built to such high standards they really do work quite happily straight out of the box.

Ive driven the mk3 1.0 mpi and really like them. I’m glad they still fit this in the mk4, should be a reliable good car.

Edited 13 July, 20241 yr by classic

JeffffeJ

 

The graph below shows the MPI 1.0 motor's power curve  (white line - PS (horsepower)) and torque curve (orange line - Nm (Newton-Metres))

 

 

Torque is a measurement of a motor's 'twisting force' and (basically) the higher the Nm number, the greater a cars' pulling power. Torque is what you need to start from stationary and in order to accelerate.

 

You'll see from the graph that, at 1000rpm, torque is at its lowest, as is power. By 2000rpm the power figure has not risen much, but the torque figure has increased significantly and peaks at 3700rpm.

 

Regarding 'labouring' there's really no Yes-or-No answer. If your car's motor were turning at 1500rpm in 5th gear and you were driving on a steep downhill slope, the car would still accelerate quite quickly if you depressed the accelerator as not much torque is required in that situation. However, if you attempted to accelerate in 5th gear at 1500rpm on a steep uphill slope, not only would the car be unable to do this, but it should be apparent to you that the motor did not 'like' being treated in that way.

 

My Fabia has automatic transmission, but the "Economical driving style" section in my car's Owner's Manual indicates that Fabia Mk 4 cars with a manual gearbox have a gear-changing prompt feature (my Manual says "Follow the gear changing recommendation on the instrument cluster display")

 

Nowadays most modern cars with a manual gearbox have an indicator showing the gear the car is in and - if the car's computer 'thinks' a higher gear could be used for better fuel-economy - it will be 'suggested' to the driver that he/she changes up. This feature can also operate vice-versa so that - if the computer 'thinks' the driver is in too high a gear (when the car may well be 'labouring') - it will recommend a downwards change. 

 

You will need to get to know your car to decide how best to drive it, but - for now - the gear-change indicator should give you a reasonable idea of which gear you should be in.

Edited 13 July, 20241 yr by DerekU

Thank to you both and especially to @DerekU for the detailed explanation.

What about the first oil change? My Fabia says the first service is at 30k km, but the dealer recommends an oil change at 15k km to prolong engine life. I’ve read that some also recommend changing the oil right after the break-in period.

3 hours ago, JeffffeJ said:

Thank you everyone for your replies and your advice 😀

@classicWhat is considered labouring? Like when the engine struggles to accelerate due to a too high gear? Is there a RPMs range where the engine is labouring the most? Like 1000-2500 RPMs or similar?

@DerekUThank you, I’ll also go through that thread and the article.

@Paws4ThotI’ve added the info to my profile, thanks for the comment. 

1. "Labouring", also known as "chugging" (in English) from the noise the engine makes, is when the engine is struggling to pull the car up a hill. So there's no "never rev below these revs" speed as such, but the steeper the hill (or heavier the car) the higher the engine speed you need stop it labouring. For instance you would need to rev the engine higher to get up a given hill with 3 friends in the car than when you're by yourself.
2. I've not reread the thread or read the article, but "running in" periods are much less restrictive  than they used to be. For example, in the 1960s running in might be 1_600km at no more than 70km/h. In the 1980s my Dad's first new car said "Running in - Do not exceed 4_000 (four thousand) rpm for the first 1_600km".
3. No problem.
4. Also @DerekU The so-called "gear indicator", whether it be a recommended gear number or "/\" and "\/" arrows like on my sister's Honda Jazz, is basically a vacuum gauge (used to measure inlet manifold depression from atmospheric pressure) with an output of a number or an arrow rather than a pressure.

2 minutes ago, JeffffeJ said:

My Fabia says the first service is at 30k km, but the dealer recommends an oil change at 15k km to prolong engine life. I’ve read that some also recommend changing the oil right after the break-in period.

The "oil change after running in" is no longer considered normal practice, but for once I'd agree with your dealer and do an oil and filter change at half the interval to the first service.

My understanding is that a Fabia Mk 4's service interval will be 'calculated' rather than (as historically) a fixed maximum mileage or time interval.

 

My 2024 Fabia's information display predicts that the first service will be at 2-years, however the salesman told me in passing that, if the car's annual mileage was low (which it will be) a service at 1-year would probably be recommended.

 

A recent on-line comment about current Skoda servicing policy. 

 

Oil change interval is BETWEEN 15km and 30km and between 1 and 2 years. Dashboard display will show when the next oil change is due based on a range of factors that include readings from oil level/quality sensors, number of engine cold starts, outside temperatures on engine cold start, driving distances from engine start, etc. Basically, if you do a lot of starts only to drive 5-10km each time, the dashboard display will advise  that the next oil change is due towards the beginning of the interval (let’s say 15k km/1 year). If you start less frequently and drive long distances each time,  the next service due will be towards the end of the interval (max 30km/2 years).

 

This 2018 discussion on the Karoq forum related to the gear-change indicator

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/452335-question-about-the-gear-change-indicator/

 

My 2021 Hyundai i20 (6-speed manual transmission) had one and regularly suggested a 2-gears upwards change that might have been possible for ultimate economy but I seldom reacted to.

 

I don't know if the gear-change indicator on modern vehicles works solely on vacuum-pressure - I think it's a bit more subtle than that nowadays. My 2nd Golf GTi (bought in the early-80s) had a precursor 'drive more economically' system that probably was vacuum-pressure triggered. It comprised a simple blue LED in the instrument cluster that illuminated to suggest that fuel consumption could be improved by driving less hard (with a Golf GTi???) Snag was that the headlamps-on-main-beam indicator was also a blue LED and this could be really confusing when driving at night. I used to alternate between driving so that the 'drive more economically' LED was on as much as possible or on as little as possible. In the end I got fed up and stuck a piece of black tape on the cluster's 'glass'  to mask the LED.

 

The only vehicle I've owned where I found the gear-change indicator beneficial was a diesel-fuelled 2015 Fiat Ducato-based motorhome, where I'd occasionally notice that I was blithely bowling along in 5th gear rather than 6th. The system would also suggest a down-shift and, when it did, there was no doubt that this was correct.

Edited 13 July, 20241 yr by DerekU

4 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

The so-called "gear indicator", whether it be a recommended gear number or "/\" and "\/" arrows like on my sister's Honda Jazz, is basically a vacuum gauge (used to measure inlet manifold depression from atmospheric pressure) with an output of a number or an arrow rather than a pressure.

 

BS.

 

No vacuum to measure on diesel engined vehicles yet they still have the chocolate teapot gear indicator display.

Feels like I have just returned to the latter part of the last century when reading this post. I am 67 shortly, and have never driven a car in 'break in' mode for well over 30 years. Modern cars just need to be driven as you would drive it all the time. 

37 minutes ago, Tintowellfan said:

Feels like I have just returned to the latter part of the last century when reading this post. I am 67 shortly, and have never driven a car in 'break in' mode for well over 30 years. Modern cars just need to be driven as you would drive it all the time. 

Thanks for your comment, but that’s not true — as I’ve learned, the break-in period is even mentioned in the user manual for the vehicle.

This guidance on the link below covers 'running-in' a new vehicle and is from the UK's AA (Automobile Association). It will be seen that (besides advising that a car's motor be treated carefully for a while) the  AA highlights that a brand-new car's brakes will not yet be at full efficiency and neither will its tyres have reached their maximum adhesion capability.

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/running-in-a-new-car

 

A Fabia Mk 4 (whatever motor and transmission it has) can be driven hard (hard acceleration, hard cornering, hard braking, high engine revs) but, if that's the way someone chooses to drive habitually, it's certainly not going to be beneficial to a Fabia's long-term reliability if they drive like that from the moment the car leaves a Skoda dealership's showroom.

 

It may be that, if JeffffeJ cruises his new Fabia for hours at the Slovenian highways maximum permitted speed of 130kmh, it will do no absolutely no harm and not in the least impact on the car's longevity. Conversely, treating the car with kindness during the first 1500km will do no harm either and, in my view (and I've been driving for over 60 years and consider myself a reasonable mechanic and technically competent) should be worthwhile.

The new engine is a bit like new people what you do to and with them at the very start can set them up well or not.  As previous posters, and the Owner's Manuals, have put don't labour the engine or over rev it.  You can see in the graph put up 3500-4000 rpm is good for torque and power but you also want to go above and below that to vary things.  Highway driving generally is less wearing as you keep to a constant speed depending on the highway conditions no or next to no gear changes or braking (if you are driving sensibly).  You are much better if possible to drive on roads with more bends and twists and various speed limits to get used to the car and "bed" everything in and check everything works as it should.

 

Unless the Mk4 has some sort of terrain mapping in it's over-complex and over-interfering computer programs the gear selection advice will not be the best advice for best fuel economy or labouring the car.  I have proved to my neighbour in his 2023 Ren-No! Cashcow that using brisk (not heavy) acceleration to slightly higher revs past the display change up points than the display wants is more economical that following the gear selection display, use it as a guide not an order  Same for down changes, use your own computer your head (brain, ears, eyes), look at the circumstances ahead, plan your actions for what you need to do with the car.

 

As regards the oil change intervals VW are only interested in the engine (gearbox, car) lasting as long as any warranty they give and then with all the exclusions so if you intend to keep the car well beyond that warranty treat the manufacturer's oil (and filter) change intervals as the minimum period.  If you use the car for lots of short journeys and have lots of cold starts and use the start-stop (can you still disable this feature on a 2024 car?) then one year 15,000 km would be a minimum but the oil may need changing sooner depending on many variables.

 

There is no problem with changing the oil and filter after a run in period, it is a very good idea whether you can persuade a VWŠkoda Dealership (and perhaps others on here here) of this might be another matter though you would think they would gladly take your money and whether they would do a thorough oil change, or quick cold drain or suck out, is another matter.

 

Two bits of advice for you, particularly as it is your first car, read the Owner's Manual and refer to it often ( I think you might already have) as this can save you time, hassle and money and visits to Dealership/garage/mechanic/auto-electrician/breakdown services.  Second be aware that the car 12v battery is just a store and this store can be depleted if you keep taking out more than you put back in, the car does not always fully put back what you and the car take out.  When the car and battery are new this will not be notable unless you really hammer the battery or make a mistake but in a number of years time it can become very noticeable and even cause issues and problems.  The battery could easily last more than the 3, 4 or 5 years than many owners are now replacing them at, prematurely often.  The computers do not like a battery that is in too lower state of charge and will punish you with unexpected warning lights and issues and unseen error codes.  This can be despite the engine starting easily and the lights seeming bright enough.  If required preventative charging with an appropriate battery charger maintainer will  prevent the issues and prolong the battery's good functioning period of life.

 

Great to see you asking about your new car to get the best out of it.

 

Edited 14 July, 20241 yr by nta16
typos

21 hours ago, JeffffeJ said:

Thanks for your comment, but that’s not true — as I’ve learned, the break-in period is even mentioned in the user manual for the vehicle.

Aye, basically it advises you to drive as any sensible person normally would. Eejits will just ignore. Years ago cars leaving the factory were very different to today's beasts. No computer aided design, so cars had to be broken in. I do recall my father's car having a 'running in, please pass' sticker on his back window of a Hillman Avenger. My point was that you should just drive the car normally. Imagine you collected your car from a dealership 200 miles away down a motorway. Would it be wise to drive 200 miles home in same gear at 50 MPH? I do not think so. Motorcyclists like to run in their bikes 'like they stole it'. Beds everything in prerfectly.

Anyway, do whatever peeps like, but I will use common sense when using a new car.

Slightly tangential to running in, but along the same lines...

 

Does anyone think that the way the DSG system is programmed is focused a little bit too much towards fuel economy at the sacrifice of keeping the engine in good condition?

 

I was in a average speed zone on the motorway the other day and the speed signage changed from 50 mph average to 40 mph average and it took my gearbox a good couple of hundred meters to change down from 7th into 6th gear. At 40 mph! And I wasn't going downhill either. 

 

I've noticed in general driving, too, that the gearbox loves to stay in a higher gear than I ever would, if I was driving it with a manual gearbox.

 

I just hope Skoda knows what they're doing by having the gearbox tuned to favour higher gears like this.

1 minute ago, JFrankMiller said:

Does anyone think that the way the DSG system is programmed is focused a little bit too much towards fuel economy at the sacrifice of keeping the engine in good condition?

Yes, so is the manual, this all goes back to the earliest days of Blue Motion? start/stop when VW had it as 'look at us we 'care' about fuel economy' (I won't mention emissions of course 😄).

 

6 minutes ago, JFrankMiller said:

I just hope Skoda knows what they're doing by having the gearbox tuned to favour higher gears like this.

As long as the engine makes it passed the longest warranty available that's all that really matter to them, hence them also not pushing more frequent engine oil and filter (and air filter) changes for vehicles under what used to be termed "serve" conditions (I think, might be wrong, other manufacturer(s) might mention these but not VWŠkoda that I've seen).

 

I am of course biased as I've never liked VWs (Mk1 Golf being the exception),

 

The DSG does stay in a higher gear than some might stay in with a manual, but then the gearing is 7 gears and nobody is driving a 1.0 TSI or even a 1.5 TSI with a 7 speed manual.

1st gear is a lower and changing up sooner / at a lower RPM than you might with a manual.

 

The Engineers do know what they are doing as they have had since 2008 to gain experience with them and then by 2018 know what they need from them and the engines for the WLTP certification.  so a decade and now 6 years further on.

(We will maybe gloss over the World Wide Recall in 2012 that exclude Europe (2009-2012 DSG,s), then the Service Campaign 34F7 2014, then again 34H5 in 2017 (2013-2015 DSG,s) , then the TPI,s 2015-2018 (software updates and upgraded clutches) , and the issues with 1.5 TSI ACT,s including with a DSG 2018 from the WLTP, software updates.)

 

Long and short is if they are not as good or reliable as they might be by 2024 then that is how VW Group roll.

The Mild Hybrids have what is called the DQ200-e which is just the same really but with the battery assistance involved with moving. 

 

Other World Regions where the WLTP cheater testing / results do not matter just having a good car you can get a 1.4 TSI non ACT and an 8 Speed Automatic.

A great drivetrain. 

 

 

Edited 15 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

I remember the DSGs on the original Aldi TT, first TT they had lots of bits of trouble with some, a chap in the club we know had the Dealership models more than his own for the first 12 or 18 months (I forget) more than the one he bought.

 

I always think of VW having the, to me, rough sounding 4-pots and higher cc then had to lose a cylinder which they did have history and experience of.  At the same time the chap had the TT my wife had the Daihatsu Copen  which looked similar but smaller (and better) and it had a bullet-proof 659cc, 3-pot turbo engine, 5-speed manual of course, 16mph/1k rpm (so 5k rpm at 80 mph where allowed).  It's top speed was claimed at 106 mph which by coincidence it did (abroad) as verified by my mate's new at the time Jag XK 4.2 V8.  I like a car with a properly ranged speedo and can't stand widely over optimistic speedos, makes the numbers too small for legal UK speeds.

 

With these 7 gears if 1st is low do I take it 6th is direct ratio (or there abouts) and 7th is overdrive, any idea of ratios?

 

2003 was a very different 6 speed DSG in an Audi TT though. 

Saying that, 21 years on the DQ381 7 speed wet Cluch that would now be fitted are having their own whole horror show reliability.

 

PS. 

There are MY24 & MY25 Skoda models with DSG,s that do not show which gear you are in unless you go into Sport or Manual. 

 

Edited 15 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

On 13/07/2024 at 13:55, JeffffeJ said:

Thank to you both and especially to @DerekU for the detailed explanation.

What about the first oil change? My Fabia says the first service is at 30k km, but the dealer recommends an oil change at 15k km to prolong engine life. I’ve read that some also recommend changing the oil right after the break-in period.

In Serbia, official service time, under warranty, for all Skodas is 15k km or one year.

 

I think that is better for engine than 30k km or two years.

@Ootohere just out of curiosity any idea of the current DQ 200 7 speed gear ratios?

 

When I drove the 1.0 110 TSI I was in 5th (out of 6) manual by 30 mph IIRC, it defaulted to Eco at turning ignition back on and I normally left it there and just pushed the revs up when I wanted, it was reasonable enough higher up the range (very subdued at low revs, no traffic lights grand pricks stuff) setting to sports mode there was a noticeable pick up in acceleration, or at least that's the way it seemed to me, felt the extra 20 PS to my wife's 90 1.2 (4-pot) where the driving modes are left to the driver operating the three pedal and gears, within what the computers think suitable at any given moment of course, and I get this information anyway when car's owner is in any of the passenger seats.

 

@nta16

Sorry no, but there was a thread here with them a while back and also in the Mk2 sections.

The DSG mapping (DQ200,s) is different for the different power outputs. 

Just with the Mk3 Fabia there was the 1.4 TDI or 1.2 TSI,s or TDI,s.  There was the limited edition R5 with a 1.4 TSI 125 ps, and now the 1.5 TSI ACT. 

 

EDIT.

From a google. 

Edited 15 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere