Have you noticed these new cameras springing up all over the place, which currently are totally unexplained as to what they are for. I reported a while back about the possibilities the LEZ and the ULEZ cameras could just be a trojan horse for now and be incorporated / morphed into becoming part of the "Pay per mile" system that has been widely reported by many of the YT motoring channels and some even thought that it was a conspiracy theory and nothing else, but is it?

 

They seem to be appearing on the roads into and out of towns and villages at present, so they could be part of a high-tech speed camera system, capable of measuring the speed of cars that are just passing through and issuing fines for those speeding, or they could be tracking cars and calculating the cost of the total journey based on the distance covered from the first camera that picked up your registration plate and the last camera to do so?

 

What are your thoughts on what they are for?

 

 

ANPR/surveillance

Dunno about the cameras, but I've started seeing Pay Per Mile policies appear on insurance quotes.

Didn't care enough to even look at how they work, but it could well be a 'thing' for some people in the next few years... a bit like the PCP-type deals where you never ultimately own a car, just pay to rent one and then start again with a new model every three years.

Cameras will not be needed for PPM

Maybe the cameras will do multiple functions?

TBH  based on the handful of his videos I've seen this guy appears to be a tin foil wearing nutter and many of the comments appear to feed that paranoia.

DOnt get me wrong , there may be a grain of truth in his  videos/comments but watching them is like listening to fingernails being dragged across a blackboard.

3 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

TBH  based on the handful of his videos I've seen this guy appears to be a tin foil wearing nutter and many of the comments appear to feed that paranoia.

DOnt get me wrong , there may be a grain of truth in his  videos/comments but watching them is like listening to fingernails being dragged across a blackboard.

TBH, much the same thing could be said for anyone these days, especially the MSM and newspapers as all they care about is pandering to their viewers / paying customers, most of it is clickbait, in to retain their hold over them.

I'm finding that you have to take a snippet from here and another from over there sort of thing to try and find some common ground that may be the truth or it may not, as always only time will tell, but this theory of PPM came about some time ago when the LEZ cameras were first introduced, not just in London but in many other cities and towns, then it was discovered that all of these places have links to the same international websites, all of which are backed by large corporations, then slowly evidence shows that the London Mayor is linked to them all and that TFL have been advertising for staff with experience of road charging systems and these jobs are not located in London, which is where you would expect TFL jobs to be based, not based in some of the other places that have LEZ in place or planning one. So piecing all the snippets together suggests that there may be some mileage in the notion?

 

We have all of these lobby groups around the world, all with impressive and official sounding names, all lobbying on behalf of either their own or those with vested interests in certain outcomes, C40 Cities, WEF, ERG, IEA and numerous others, all seem to be interwoven with other affiliated groups.

 

Was it not ideas from the IEA and WEF put forward to the short-lived PM often associated with a lettuce, that the PM and the Chancellor implemented and instantly wrecked the UK economy?

Edited 9 August, 20249 Aug by Graham Butcher

PPM is really only needed for EVs as a replacement for Fuel Tax and  where its (probably) not possible to add a tax to electricity consumption at home for the specific EV usage, for Public charging it could be added (theoretically)

PPM isn't really needed for ICE as rather than paying for cameras etc you only need to increase the Fuel Tax element as required so if this is PPM as a replacement for Fuel Tax its one more thing we have to thank EVs for ;o)

(there I can do conspiracy as well lol)

Edited 9 August, 20249 Aug by Winston_Woof

You could well be right about the EV, but on the other hand, I would not put it past them to stick it on ICE as well and maybe scrap (in theory) the fuel duty.

 

I'm surprised TBH that they didn't scrap the VED and also insurance, and put a few pence onto fuel duty so that untaxed and uninsured cars became a thing of the past so those who use the roads and drive the most miles would pay more, it would certainly remove any form evasion. 

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

You could well be right about the EV, but on the other hand, I would not put it past them to stick it on ICE as well and maybe scrap (in theory) the fuel duty.

 

I'm surprised TBH that they didn't scrap the VED and also insurance, and put a few pence onto fuel duty so that untaxed and uninsured cars became a thing of the past so those who use the roads and drive the most miles would pay more, it would certainly remove any form evasion. 

nah more likely to keep the fuel duty and include ICE on PPM as well to make more money .

Why would you want fossil fuels to suddenly look cheaper by 53p per litre at the pump cos that might discourage people for buying shiney new EVs ;o)

20 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm surprised TBH that they didn't scrap the VED and also insurance, and put a few pence onto fuel duty so that untaxed and uninsured cars became a thing of the past so those who use the roads and drive the most miles would pay more, it would certainly remove any form evasion. 

VED I understand, but how would PPM replace insurance?

When someone smashes into you, 100% their fault, who pays for the damages? How would it eliminate the problem of uninsured hit & run drivers?

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

VED I understand, but how would PPM replace insurance?

When someone smashes into you, 100% their fault, who pays for the damages? How would it eliminate the problem of uninsured hit & run drivers?

The insurance would not be paid on a PPM basis, I was talking about the pure ICE days when everyone was using petrol or diesel and thus paying fuel duty. A few more coppers on a gallon of fuel, could have been allocated towards the VED, so tax was being collected each time the vehicle was refuelled. The same could be done for insurance, but instead of having loads of companies doing it, it was a central company or the government.

 

That way there could be no uninsured hit & run drivers, other than unqualified drivers or drivers driving a stolen vehicle, in which case the vehicle(s) would be covered and replaced/repaired, but the drivers of those vehicles would receive an automatic prison sentence.

Edited 10 August, 202410 Aug by Graham Butcher

"some even thought that it was a conspiracy theory and nothing else, but is it?"

lol

How far away is 'About'?

Is it for vehicles of any age or New Registrations from some future date?

 

Is there going to be some New Registration Plates that can not be changed easily from Vehicle to Vehicle or just Cloned introduced in the UK?

Or maybe a ID / Registration Sticker for putting on a windscreen of a car or maybe right in the centre of the bonnet that can be read?

oh knowing the Government it will be some sort of high tech solution involving extanded range RFID tags(or other transponder type thing)  that require a network of  readers fitted to roadside furniture that will be outsourced to the likes of Capita or Fujitsu , will be late being delivered and massively over budget

No idea, but looking at it logically, they need to do something because of all the lost revenue from fuel duty which (will only increase as more EV's hit the roads), they have been relying on to fund so many other things. The 5% vat on home charging does bugger all to offset that, and neither does VAT at 20% at public chargers. Currently ICE cars are taxed on their fuel at the rate of 52.95p per litre of either petrol or diesel, that means that ICE cars are paying tax at the rate of 57.59% whereas those who can charge at home, only pay 5% tax, those can only charge at public chargers are paying 20% tax and with a mix of home and public then those are paying slightly less than the 20%.

Clearly that revenue has to be replaced somehow, so logic suggests the abolition of Fuel duty and the introduction of PPM for all road users, which would mean of course that those who use them more, will be paying more.

Can anyone else see where they can replace the lost revenue, and it would certainly explain why there ha a rapid roll-out of camera in rural areas where is no need for low emission zones, surely that makes sense, just joining up all the dots and it looks less of a conspiracy theory, just a new way of funding things. 

Edited 19 August, 202419 Aug by Graham Butcher

'Logically'.  & 'Making sense',

Well when has that been achieved with the UK Governments or Devolved Government, Agencies, Civil Servants or consultants / advisers?

 

You are paying per mile as it is as you buy fuel and the more fuel paid the more you pay.

If the cost of running the distance matters drive more economically or get a more economic car. 

 

As to the same old same old over the EV,s and cost to run. 

 There is the limited opportunity to get on that Magic Roundabout of Cheap Home Charging for those that can do that.

The £600 RFL will cover 1,132litres  

Edited 19 August, 202419 Aug by Stonekeeper

1 million or more registered EV,s in the UK now & maybe in a few years 2 million then we get to whatever.

Many will be Business / Commercial users. 

It is what it is as far as revenue for the treasury & the public purse.

 

21 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

The £500 RFL will cover 943litres  

Who pays £500 RFL?

 

Currently after the first year it's £190 (or £600 for years 2  to 6 if the list price is over £40,000) for cars registered after 1 April 2017.

2 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Who pays £500 RFL?

 

Currently after the first year it's £190 (or £600 for years 2  to 6 if the list price is over £40,000) for cars registered after 1 April 2017.

Amended it for you

22% of Cars first registered in the UK to be EV,s and 10% of Vans and that figure rises over the years.

Plenty will be above the £40,000 mark, but then so will be ICE / Hybrid vehicles.

 

The £40,000 figure might be changing once the Chancellor gets to changing things with a Budget or announcement. 

23 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

22% of Cars first registered in the UK to be EV,s and 10% of Vans and that figure rises over the years.

Plenty will be above the £40,000 mark, but then so will be ICE / Hybrid vehicles.

 

The £40,000 figure might be changing once the Chancellor gets to changing things with a Budget or announcement. 

 

 

Not sure it will be changed for the better. That was £2.1bn of the tory plan also dragging EVs into the system, where will Labour get that from

Well clearly they have to do something and do it pretty quickly, especially if they intend to revert the deadline to 2030 for all new cars, which will leave a massive black hole in the coffers.

 

The perks that EV drivers currently enjoy cannot be continued much longer because of the massive inequality between EV and ICE drivers, both types of car still use the same roads and we all every single one of us still expect the same level of public services so it is grossly unfair to ICE drivers to keep on stumping up the ante to pay for it all, as we already pay the lions share of the costs and it is creating a 2 tier system, of have and have-nots.

Pay your share of the pollution and emissions.  We have all been at it. And pay for roads and infrastructure because those that never travel far or even have as vehicle pay for motorways.   But then they do buy stuff transported by road.  But they pay for that.  Then we all pay for trains even when we do not use them.    It's just life and the economy.    Someone needs to make people rich.  We are all born naked and without pockets.