1 hour ago, theNFS25 said:

As such, my question is, which one of the two general types is compatible with the wiring of the Alex A/C unit.

 

 

The 3 pin switch is just 2 switches in a single body, with 1 common contact. You can just connect 2 contacts for the lower temp, which, iirc, is 3 Deg lower than the standard switch. The pinout should be in wiring diagrams or in datasheet of Metra Šumperk, who manufactured them. The datasheet also contains exact on/off temps as does service manual (Google dílenská příručka if you didn't yet.)

 

Since you're replacing the fan with the factory AC one, I'd also advice to modify the wiring to the two speed variant - the lower speed takes less current during start-up, which means less load on the electrical system and engine. The 2nd speed shouldn't be needed at all with AC off.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Papez said:

The 2nd speed shouldn't be needed at all with AC off.

I agree with that

@theNFS25 don't forget to buy (together with the thermoswitch) it's washer.

It's from permanite so no hot coolalnt leak, it's not a common.

I know that some guys have use copper washer.

Many thanks for this heads up, @D.FYLAKTOS, 

 

I think there might've been a copper washer in the original set for the 3-pin. I'll check the box though, and if it is not, I'll make sure to order the right one.   

 

The fairly detailed Czech book by Mario René Cedrych that I have checked states, that unlike the 2-pin variants, which were truly made by Metra Šumperk, the 3-pin version was supposedly manufactured in Germany by Wahler (it did look and feel very high quality as well, which caught me by surprise when I got it).  

As for the wiring, I'll take a good look on the donor car when we'll be disassembling the unit and related parts, and of course document everything carefully with pictures so that there's a much smaller chance of messing up during the reassembly. I might initially reuse the fan from that car just to make sure that everything's fine, and replace it later on in the process of fine tuning everything. Perhaps while trying the intelligent fan wiring setup proposed by @Thefeliciahacker. 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I know that some guys have use copper washer.

I use copper 

38 minutes ago, theNFS25 said:

Wahler

is top top top notch 

 

39 minutes ago, theNFS25 said:

Perhaps while trying the intelligent fan wiring setup proposed by

mine will give high reliability with redundancy

Yup, so I just checked it, and the 3-pin thermoswitch in the Škoda branded box (presumably Wahler then according to the book I mentioned) indeed does include a very nice copper washer.  

Hey guys, 

 

wishing all of you another wonderful day. Today, I just wanted to share an interesting fact that I've stumbled upon while studying the entire Alex A/C assembly in the engine bay, and maybe provide a little bit of insight for anyone who might read the topic in the future.

It regards the difference between a power-steering (PS) version and non-power steering (NPS) version of the Alex kit. 

 

Now, since the official Alex installation guide that was provided earlier by @Thefeliciahacker mentions on its cover page, that it was meant for cars with PS, I initially thought that the bracket shown there was unified for both models, but it seems like that is not the case, and not just because the PS pump is not even shown in the belt diagram there. 

 

If you take a look at the pictures below, which compare my non-PS Felicia Family donor car's engine bay (first two pics) with @Thefeliciahacker's PS-equipped Felicia Sport Line (third pic), there seems to be a bit of a difference in the positioning of the A/C compressor, as not only does the PS version probably get a larger 6-groove compressor clutch and a longer, wider 6PK belt (the NPS version retains a narrow 4PK type belt, and for some reason, according to the guide, it's not even required to discard the original non-A/C 70A alternator, which might be a very bad idea in my opinion, as the system simply must be too power hungry for that, right?), but the compressor itself actually sits a bit higher to accomodate for the PS pump, which, if I'm not mistaken, is located underneath the alternator at the bottom of the engine bay. This suggests to me, that the bracket itself must be a completely different part for each of the two versions. There's also the additional support bar above the compressor, which is secured by the rear-leftmost head bolt, and which the NPS version does not get at all (and it is, again, not even shown in the installation guide).  

 

I don't know whether any of you have experience with the NPS version of the kit, but the difference did pique my interest quite a bit, as I haven't really seen anyone compare the two, and just initially assumed that the Alex kit supports the addition of PS in all 1.3 engine variants of the set. Not that I would be planning to install that, but it might be good to know for someone. Apologies to all of you for the sub-par quality of my photos, BTW.  

 

 

I said it before - these AC conversions are mess 😃 The manual at one point also shows alternator on top.

In stock configuration, AC compressor is beneath the alternator, in place of the servo pump. That however requires different coolant pipe and hose to get around it, so that's probably reason why Alex had to do a slightly different accessory holder, which mounts alternator and compressor quite high.

 

1 hour ago, theNFS25 said:

it's not even required to discard the original non-A/C 70A alternator, which might be a very bad idea in my opinion, as the system simply must be too power hungry for that, right?),

 

Another reason to implement two speed fan. Especially when we are required to run with lights 24/7. Problem with 90A alternator is, that it fits only into PS/AC bracket - PS variants were equipped with it from factory. Not sure if Alex holder could work with 90A alternatir

18 minutes ago, Papez said:

Not sure if Alex holder could work with 90A alternatir

Alex does only work with 90A alternator.
The location is as follows
Compressor -> alternator 90A -> Ps pump
It uses on idler pulley lower most mounted to the block
And a manual tensioner in between the compressor and the alternator 
 

You're right,@Papez, it really can be confusing. 

 

I do have to say though, that I actually really like Alex's approach, especially compared to the horrific solution by Diavia, because over here, both the compressor and the alternator are completely out of harms way, and virtually no mechanical damage from outside can be inflicted there. Also, the piping seems to be very easily accessible even without having to go underneath the car. That being said, the original unit (IIRC manufactured by Siemens) does have the piping placed in such a way, that replacing the alternator is a substantially easier job, compared to the situation with the Alex unit. But I don't really mind that, thankfully.  

 

As for the alternator, it's exactly like you said. I will try to source and mount the 90A alternator (only replacing the pulley on it with the 4-groove). Of course, on the PS version bracket, it has to be supported, but on the non-PS, I'm unfortunately very unsure about it. Do the mounts on for example the two original Magneton alternators (the 70A and 90A ver.) differ by a lot? Because from outside, apart from the pulley itself, they do look very similar. 

 

Here ar some picture that could seem helpfull 

 

Edited 6 September, 20241 yr by Thefeliciahacker

12 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Alex does only work with 90A alternator.
The location is as follows
Compressor -> alternator 90A -> Ps pump
It uses on idler pulley lower most mounted to the block
And a manual tensioner in between the compressor and the alternator 

 

I'm kind of starting to be afraid that this might not be the layout of the bracket that I will be getting from the donor car. It is similar, but if you look into the installation guide, there's virtually no space or even any mention of mounting the PS pump with it. It's not even in the belt diagram which was included in it, which is strange in itself. And because the original car before the dealer conversion was non-A/C and non-PS, I suspect that because the guide does not tell you to discard the alternator, and still uses a 4PK belt (albeit a longer one) as well, there is a possibility, that the kits for non-PS cars retained the original alternator for non-A/C and non-PS cars, which were 70A. 😕 

 

If that is the case, I would have to either try and source the larger bracket that you have on your car, or try to make it work in a different way.  

 

Edited 6 September, 20241 yr by theNFS25

90A alternator + 6PK 1680mm for my set up

3 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

90A alternator + 6PK 1680mm for my set up

 

Yup, that would be the case for a PS-equipped one.  

But there were no 90A alternators (at least not the original ones), that came with a 4-groove pulley. So either they had to use a 90A with a 4PK belt and pulley on the non-PS setup (that would be the better option). 
Or they did the dumbest thing and decided to stick with the 70A for the non-PS cars. That's what I'm so afraid of, because the bracket is clearly a little different than yours in some kind of way, if you look at the comparison of the engine bays above. 

 

70A vs 90A is not interchangeable
https://www.autodoc.gr/as-pl/10594676
use this its very good

7 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

70A vs 90A is not interchangeable
https://www.autodoc.gr/as-pl/10594676
use this its very good

 

I'll take a good look, which one they used on the smaller bracket, once it's out of that car... and will keep you all posted of course.  

If it's the 90A that's on there, then I'll be more than happy to use the AS-PL you sent there.  

 

1 hour ago, Papez said:

Not sure if Alex holder could work with 90A alternatir

 

Mine is Alex and i have 90A Bosch alternator.

The first was damaged and i replace it, the 1st had the regulator exposed and you could see it-work with it easily, the 2nth is not and the car must be raised in a jack.

3 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

Mine is Alex and i have 90A Bosch alternator.

The first was damaged and i replace it, the 1st had the regulator exposed and you could see it-work with it easily, the 2nth is not and the car must be raised in a jack.

But you have power steering, right? Cars with PS had 90A alternator and 6PK belt. Car without PS had only 7A alternator.

 

16 minutes ago, theNFS25 said:

As for the alternator, it's exactly like you said. I will try to source and mount the 90A alternator (only replacing the pulley on it with the 4-groove). Of course, on the PS version bracket, it has to be supported, but on the non-PS, I'm unfortunately very unsure about it. Do the mounts on for example the two original Magneton alternators (the 70A and 90A ver.) differ by a lot? Because from outside, apart from the pulley itself, they do look very similar. 

 

It's possible that the compressor will fit into factory bracket... Who knows, maybe Alex even modified the kit to use the factory bracket with spring-loaded tensioner.

1 hour ago, theNFS25 said:

Or they did the dumbest thing and decided to stick with the 70A for the non-PS cars. That's what I'm so afraid of, because the bracket is clearly a little different than yours in some kind of way, if you look at the comparison of the engine bays above. 

70A lack one mounting tab