4 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Mate I aint arrogant, I'm just here to ensure people don't get misinformed. Saying that you should get the tires that better fits your vehicle is wrong!
You more so should be saying, get the best tire you can buy, that happens to fit your vehicle.
I happened to have that exact argument with my father.
-I don't need the best tires as I never push the vehicle too hard or to its limits. I can get away with a lesser brand (he wanted a pair of Petlas)

-How many times in the previous week has ABS engaged? I asked

-3 or 4 he answered.

-Okay so 3 or 4 times not only DID you push the car to its limits but actually pushed beyond its limits.
Ofc he kept arguing but the point was that you want the actual limit of the vehicle to be as high as mechanically possible even if you use 1% of it 99% of the time.

Because that 1% of the time you will be glad you had that 99% limit reserve....

You are misunderstanding, perhaps it's a language thing, I have very often said get the best tyres you can because that's what I believe and makes sense and yes they need to be suitable.  You seem to think everyone is like a F1 team with a wide selection of tyres available for various circumstances, that ain't the real world nor will people buy what they consider way beyond their need.  You seem very narrow minded only accepted things in your way this can be good in some circumstances but not all.

 

Yes your dad is also wrong (runs in the family it seems) why is ABS engaging at all, is it the tyres, his driving, a combination of the two, he seems as stubborn as you.  He was driving before ABS so should know how to drive a car without relying on it.  ABS is more about emergency situations, it shouldn't be activating in normal driving and when it is it should not really be noticeable other than a warning light,  If anything like many of these driver "aids" it more often covers for poor quality and lazy driving and doesn't promote good driving.  Before you start, I am not against ABS on cars and recognise that it is very good in emergency situations  but I think it also dilutes driving skills a bit - and I am not a good driver just very used to driving cars without all the driver "aids" that are now essential in cars.  I wore seatbelts (where fitted) well before it was law to do so but I don't wear a crash helmet and HANS every time I'm in a car or on a bus and I bet neither do you but that would make sense for higher levels of safety, your 1% need. 

 

I'm not sure what evidence you have that tyres have improved as much as you put over 30 years (perhaps compared to the basically unchanged rest of the car), change isn't always improvement, lots of engineering costs for tyres is about changes forced on to manufacturers not for the sake of improvements alone.  I could try to explain to you about all the other considerations that go into developing a product but you only see the engineering and think of that as the only important factor.  What has changed on Felicias since the car left the factory that makes it require ultimate tyres, yes there is more and faster traffic and some cars have better braking (but that was always the case).  If you think back, I was suggesting looking at (road use) tyres used for standard cars like the Felica that are approved for sports use so those wont be cheap rubbish, not if the users want to be competitive but I would be biased to road use only in my consideration.  Also in the UK is a very small tyre manufacturer supplier that makes very good tyres to the standards and quality of former years but obviously using the materials of today unless he has a time-machine.  I've always valued good tyres since I learnt very early on that cheap tyres are expensive, I didn't need to analyse what went wrong it was obvious I had made a mistake with my tyre selection at that time - but I did learn from it hence promoting the importance of  good tyres.

 

You are arrogant, that helps a bit in your job but as I've tried to tell you before is not always good when working with other people even if you are their boss or outrank them in the work situation and outside of work you are no one's boss and being too arrogant could get you into trouble.

 

 

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Oh I do make mistakes on a daily basis, I just analyze what went wrong so it doesn't happen again

Are you only thinking of engineering and work mistakes, or is it that you consider you haven't made mistakes here so you don't need to analyse as nothing went wrong so it doesn't happen again because I can think of three times you've been wrong and arrogant about it when it's been pointed out and I have a bad memory.

 

I'm not having a go at you because your intentions overall are very good, plus whether you see it or not we are agreeing about tyres generally although I don't see any need to go to ultimate tyres for on a standard Felicia and do bear in mind I actually used my old cars, as some are doing with their Felicias here, and I didn't drive them like they were museum pieces I drove them in the way they would have been driven back in their day, all year round in the UK weather conditions - with just one set of tyres which obviously performed better at some times than others so I took this into consideration with how I drove as the driver "aids" for car were almost all in my head - biological electronics. 😄

 

Edited 21 January, 20251 yr by nta16

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

You are arrogant, that helps a bit in your job but as I've tried to tell you before is not always good when working with other people even if you are their boss or outrank them in the work situation and outside of work you are no one's boss and being too arrogant could get you into trouble.

Although we keep getting off-topic I'll tell you this and I'll be out of this topic. 
In whatever you claim you make it seem like it's a matter of personal opinion. Many things are not a matter of opinion and we cannot provide subjective solutions to objective problems. Yet I'm the only one (or close to it) who points that out to you. That may seem arrogant but in all reality, it's not. Think of it in such a way as a GPT model is answering and not a human who can be carried out by emotion in his writing. Ofc my writing carries emotion when I get frustrated but looking beyond how it's written and looking at what IS WRITTEN you will only find objective views. I do not provide subjective views except when I say IN MY OPINION.
And I will conclude with that:
Sadly, Ricardo was a loss to this forum not only because we lost his expertise, but also because we lost someone who could objectively "silence" (win an argument, I mean, don't take it badly) subjective opinions about objective problems.
 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Many things are not a matter of opinion and we cannot provide subjective solutions to objective problems.

Correct yet you apply your opinion to the subjects which is fine but not to say it's objective.  My presentation is very casual but there is objectivity and dealing with a wider approach rather than a very one track and extreme solution that is unrealistic in the real wider more world we live in. Your mind only works on one track 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Yet I'm the only one (or close to it) who points that out to you.

No you are not. 😆  It is just that you have misunderstood what I put about tyres, I didn't explain it well enough for you to fully understand but it was objective not subjective.

 

As long as we are not breaking the site rules you can post what you want and I can post what I want we don't have to agree.  I would sooner you don't run off, but I can't stop you running off, I think you offer a lot of good help but yours is not always the only way or answer and often you take the extreme view.

 

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

(a nickname)...was a loss to this forum not only because we lost his expertise, but also because we lost someone who could objectively "silence" (win an argument, I mean, don't take it badly) subjective opinions about objective problems.

 

Maybe he got what he was wishing for me and my Trusty.

By the way he couldn't "silence" even his male roommate not even his pet.

 

 

Can't we use from Fabia?

SKODA FABIA VRS 5J front caliper

 

On 20/01/2025 at 10:16, Papez said:

 

I looked up Clio discs and apart from the main diameter, they appear to have same dimensions as the Williams variant, which is usually used for 260mm conversion.

You can check ATE catalogue, PN 420125.

 

Problem with the Clio discs is, that they require spacers under the brake calipers, because they are 5mm shallower than the stock discs. That may also require spacer under wheels or different ET.

Thanks! 238mm Vented discs look promising.

I always care for proper ET. But almost everyone I know either ignore or don't know ET.

 

On 20/01/2025 at 15:17, nta16 said:

Don't over rate ABS in normal driving conditions, in normal conditions ABS more compensates for poor quality driving.

I agree. I've adjusted the brakes according to the official settings. There is a large modulation from the beginning of the grip and to the point of complete locking of the wheels.

I can brake without locking the tires even at slippery conditions. I can feel the road's condition from the steering wheel and adjust my driving style to be very gentle. (I know, sounds weird to the drivers of cars with non-mechanical electric steering )

Soft suspension of the car provides lots of feedback in curves. It's almost the car itself tells you how to drive it. If you learn to listen to it.

 

Quote

ABS is more about emergency situations, it shouldn't be activating in normal driving and when it is it should not really be noticeable other than a warning light,  If anything like many of these driver "aids" it more often covers for poor quality and lazy driving and doesn't promote good driving.  Before you start, I am not against ABS on cars and recognise that it is very good in emergency situations  but I think it also dilutes driving skills a bit - and I am not a good driver just very used to driving cars without all the driver "aids" that are now essential in cars.  I wore seatbelts (where fitted) well before it was law to do so but I don't wear a crash helmet and HANS every time I'm in a car or on a bus and I bet neither do you but that would make sense for higher levels of safety, your 1% need. 

Words of wisdom. I totally agree.

 

On 20/01/2025 at 22:55, Thefeliciahacker said:

As a fellow driver on the road, I'm much less afraid of @R_Blue brakes fading than

The first time I've experienced serious brake fading was on the highway going at 120Km/h.

There was a car in front of me which wasn't even close.

There was something happened on the road and our part of the road was closed. The traffic was being routed to the other lane but the required road signs wasn't ready yet. So we both caught by surprise in a high speed.

The car in front of me was braking hard. I was also braking hard. As long as I held the brake, it got weaker and weaker to the point I was almost pushing it to the bottom.  The large gap between us were closing to the point of me, right behind its bumper and those last seconds were scary as I pushed the pedal almost with full power. This was 120 to 30 hard braking in summer. Which can happen anytime.

The discs are Valeo and the pads were bosch.

So, brake fading happens even at standard conditions.

 

Brake upgrade is in my to-do list.

I hope I can find possibility to work on this upgrade. 

If I do, I'll share the details in very deep.

 

On 20/01/2025 at 15:17, nta16 said:

What size tyres do you use?

175 70 R13

 

 

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Can't we use from Fabia?

Maybe with custom made carrier brackets.

7 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I can brake without locking the tires even at slippery conditions.

So can I, but ABS is reassuring when you have split mu, like gravel over tarmac on the near side of the car. (Applies whether you have right or wrong hand drive).

11 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Maybe with custom made carrier brackets.

 

I wonder if those from Fabia (modified) won't do?

14 hours ago, R_Blue said:

175 70 R13

My choice would easily be the independent manufacturer supplier I mentioned before one chap runs the business and he's a character so doesn't work in the same way as other manufacturers, his tyres are very highly thought of  by those that know old cars.  UK prices might be a surprise to those not living here, don't worry about the high speed rating he would have introduced that because that was required in that size by customers and he has now run out of the ones he made at lower speed rating, at the same price, and tyres are already at excellent value.   These are proper road tyres that can also be used in motorsports, high performance and rugged.  The chap runs the company so he can sort things out for individual customers. Blockley Tyres - https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/175-70vr13

 

Below is the 2024 list for production tyres approved for UK motorsport, I don't know what is available in your country or which sizes are available in each model tyres, don't dismiss a make just because it is not a popular brand or not well known to you. -

Motorsport-UK-Yearbook-2024.pdf

 

Good luck.

Edited 22 January, 20251 yr by nta16

18 hours ago, R_Blue said:

The discs are Valeo and the pads were bosch.

 

I think I had Bosch on my car once and they were quite prone to fading. But it was quite a long time ago, so I'm not sure. But I'd give @Thefeliciahacker's advice a try.

Edited 22 January, 20251 yr by Papez

Just FYI I have had tried 2 consecutive brake test with my felicia ~80-~0 kmh I did not experience any brake fade at all...
Like none, not even odor... Brembo pads and brembo rotors.
With the MiTo I have had done 4 yes 4 consecutive brake test when I was bedding the pads in (brembo pads and rotors). Slight odor only....
With the brera I have had one full emergency braking (190ish to 50ish) full on abs and hazards, it didn't even smell.
And it braked amazingly well (Brembo Pads original rotors)

Keep in mind consumer level brembo brake gear has nothing to do with motorsport brembo stuff. Much more inferior.
Last time I was driving fast with the brera I got caught off guard on the double horseshoe again very hard braking no abs but just enough to slightly cause the rear to start overrotating. Again tires make the most difference, factory brakes have always been sufficient, heck even the GPunto with one seized caliper has never experienced brake fade.... 
And yes this is my absolute favorite turn, but like it always happens, a sloth appears on the second part😭 like it has reached the point that I would even go out at 2AM and someone would be quacking occupying the turn....
P.S. its located in Mexico

13 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

So can I, but ABS is reassuring when you have split mu, like gravel over tarmac on the near side of the car. (Applies whether you have right or wrong hand drive).

I agree.

 

I'd prefer McLaren F1 by the way but you know, beggars can't be choosers. So we hit the road with right or wrong, whatever we've found.

 

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I wonder if those from Fabia (modified) won't do?

I don' think brake caliper brackets can be modified to fit in a safe way. A custom caliper bracket must be fabricated with precision and proper techniques. It's not an easy job. If the bracket gets broken while braking, the results will be catastrophic.

 

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

My choice would easily be the independent manufacturer supplier

Thanks to the wheeler dealers, I'm familiar with the UK's independent manufacturers. They do marvelous jobs and have my respect.

The problem is, with the regulations in where I live, it's impossible for me to import anything like that.

 

4 hours ago, Papez said:

 

I think I had Bosch on my car once and they were quite prone to fading. But it was quite a long time ago, so I'm not sure. But I'd give @Thefeliciahacker's advice a try.

Unfortunately, importing of a €150 part is impossible.

Also, thanks to you, if I make the conversion, it will be a  more feasible project than €150 pads.

9 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Unfortunately, importing of a €150 part is impossible.

Last time I answer to this thread, if you so wish I can always get them for you and then forward them to TR at a very low declared value, pretty much paying close to zero taxes....

9 hours ago, R_Blue said:

A custom caliper bracket must be fabricated

 

it will be a  more feasible project than €150 pads

 

Foundry job, too expensive. 
Even for Greece the price is high, there is an extra tax due to Customs since England is not in the EU now.

 

12 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

With the MiTo

brera

 

Their rear brakes aren't drum as we have.

10 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I don' think brake caliper brackets can be modified to fit in a safe way. A custom caliper bracket must be fabricated with precision and proper techniques. It's not an easy job. If the bracket gets broken while braking, the results will be catastrophic.

 

It can be done, I found this on Czech Facebook page

 

But if I'm not mistaken, with exception of the 288mm variant, Fabia has the caliper bracket as part of the hub. Same case with other VWs with small vented brakes.

 

Quote

 

Unfortunately, importing of a €150 part is impossible.

 

Also, thanks to you, if I make the conversion, it will be a  more feasible project than €150 pads.

 

 

 

I didn't mean the exact same part, but some reputable brand. Bosch isn't exactly brand focused on making brake components.

 

One thing I forgot about the Renault brake discs - they need the center bore to be enlarged by ~1mm, it's not a straightforward conversion either.  

Edited 23 January, 20251 yr by Papez

Lot of Fabia models, lot of diameters, examples:

 

Skoda Fabia Mk1 1.4 16V 75 hp Petrol 12.1999 - 03.2008

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/car-brands/spare-parts-skoda/fabia-6y2/15107/10132/brake-disc.html

Skoda Fabia Praktik 1.4 68 hp Petrol 07.2001 - 05.2003

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/car-brands/spare-parts-skoda/fabia-praktik/19335/10132/brake-disc.html

15 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Thanks to the wheeler dealers, I'm familiar with the UK's independent manufacturers. They do marvelous jobs and have my respect.

The problem is, with the regulations in where I live, it's impossible for me to import anything like that.

Take the stuff on Wheeler Dealers with a pinch of salt, it got slightly more realistic costings in more recent years but not all of the work done is listed or shown in the program, Mike became the patron of or car club a few years back but he's known the club and promoted it at the NEC shows for more years.

 

I did wonder what restrictions you might have but you can have a look at that list as they are widely available brands and I would guess models, but different markets have different availabilities of models and sizes.  Those tyres are for road use, they will of course vary in price and quality but I doubt any will be lower quality as they are for motorsport use.  Don't mix up the extreme (and over pampered, monied, politicked) high level motor sports with the low end stuff that many do in the UK winning at best a plastic cup at the end of a season.

 

A decent F1 owner would also be interested in your car.

 

On 23/01/2025 at 12:17, Papez said:

It can be done, I found this on Czech Facebook page

Interesting...

Are those air shocks? Or brake line routing?

With this conversion, one must also find a solution for rear wheels to mach the new 5 bolt pattern.

The modders have my respect. Good work.

 

This is the "go big or go home" version of doing this work.

It reminded me that I'd love to have a better front suspension solution. Don't get me wrong. Not for flexing on curves.

The front suspension has very little movement space before it hits the buffer with a loud bang.

Even small irregularities on the surface of the asphalt could make front go BANG. Especially if I have a little overweight passenger(100kg) sitting in the front. The same thing happens on other cars more silently.  In fav, the bang is so loud, it makes you fear every time that something is damaged. (In severe cases yes. Wheels can go out of true. Requires work in wheel bending machine)

So I'd say yes to a conversion to improve two aspects at once but that needs huge amounts of work to be done. Both in front and rear wheels.

 

But it's good to know the possibility of this upgrade option as well.

 

On 23/01/2025 at 12:17, Papez said:

One thing I forgot about the Renault brake discs - they need the center bore to be enlarged by ~1mm, it's not a straightforward conversion either

That's no problem.

Easy work on lathe.

 

21 hours ago, nta16 said:

I did wonder what restrictions you might have but you can have a look at that list

Anything over €30 (including shipment fee), instant seizure by customs. And there is an ever growing list of banned products.  If a product passes the requirements, one must pay %60 tax + some fixed fees to receive the item.

In a short explanation, you pay €48 for a €29 product.

 

If it's over €30 and you want the item, you must hire a customs specialists, pay storage fees for the impounded item, pay extra taxes and fees to be able to get your item.

So an ordinary person can not order tires from UK specialists.

 

Yes, I've checked the list and even stored it for future reference. Continental Eco Contact 6 is available locally in 13" size. Good find.

 

21 hours ago, nta16 said:

A decent F1 owner would also be interested in your car.

Thanks!

Edited 24 January, 20251 yr by R_Blue

3 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

The front suspension has very little movement space before it hits the buffer with a loud bang.

Even small irregularities on the surface of the asphalt could make front go BANG. Especially if I have a little overweight passenger(100kg) sitting in the front. The same thing happens on other cars more silently.  In fav, the bang is so loud, it makes you fear every time that something is damaged. (In severe cases yes. Wheels can go out of true. Requires work in wheel bending machine)

Sounds like there might be something (very) wrong with your springs, and perhaps dampers, broken or aged or perhaps wrong size, rating or quality.  100kg isn't heavy for a passenger, well not in the UK and certainly not in the USA and elsewhere.  I assume you aren't riding at too higher tyre pressures.

 

 

4 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

Yes, I've checked the list and even stored it for future reference. Continental Eco Contact 6 is available locally in 13" size. Good find.

Models and sizes do go out of date and unavailable and the replacements aren't always better than the previous model(s).  I forgot to put I take little notice of the EU tyre label ratings, I believe they are done by the manufactures and will be set to pass the test point which doesn't necessarily mean they are that good outside that point.  When the EU tyre labelling first came in it showed lower figures for the Yokohama a-drive tyres I previously had but became unavailable 13" and higher figures for the tyres I bought to replace them, this was rubbish the a-drives were far superior, best 13" tyres I had had.  I didn't realise just how good the a-drive were until all the set of tyres after where none matched them, unfortunately Blockley did have the tyre size available at the time.

 

If I remember correctly(?) I had a set of Eco Contacts 3 and I wasn't over impressed with them but that was on a small lightweight "classic" sportscar, that is not to say they were bad, very comfortable ride IIRC but not very great handling and road holding which is what is wanted with a sportscar but they might suit your needs and may have changed since the model number I had.   As a generalisation Kumho seem to be good for lower priced tyre and Nankang with the sport drivers I think, obvious the usual provisos apply.

 

Since we are not Rallymen, what is better for us: stock diameter vented disks or plain discs but bigger diameter and a bit bigger calipers?

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Interesting...

Are those air shocks? Or brake line routing?

With this conversion, one must also find a solution for rear wheels to mach the new 5 bolt pattern.

The modders have my respect. Good work.

 

Air shock. The car is quite heavily modified Felicia Fun. @Skury was active on this forum, so he might tell more

5 bolt on the rear is the easier part, since 93 Favorit and Felicia use the entire brake assembly from MK3 Golf. The front is the issue, because it's specific for Favorit/Felicia, which is why the front conversion needs parts from different brands.

 

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

The front suspension has very little movement space before it hits the buffer with a loud bang.

Even small irregularities on the surface of the asphalt could make front go BANG.

 

There's something wrong. I was quite often skidding with front mudflaps, without hitting the bumpstop.

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Sounds like there might be something (very) wrong with your springs, and perhaps dampers, broken or aged or perhaps wrong size, rating or quality.  100kg isn't heavy for a passenger, well not in the UK and certainly not in the USA and elsewhere.  I assume you aren't riding at too higher tyre pressures.

 

14 minutes ago, Papez said:

There's something wrong. I was quite often skidding with front mudflaps, without hitting the bumpstop.

 

 

 

When I got the car 4 years ago, the front swing arms, shocks, springs, front axles, their boots etc. were new. Had been replaced by the previous owner before the sale of the car.  It's just like this from the day one.

Of course these parts are not OE. All of them are aftermarket.

 

Felicia has a higher engine position than fav. and might not be comparable.

 

I think, this is normal for this car.

When you look from the side, the car looks like an ordinary car with ample suspension movement space but the ground clearance under the skid plate is very low.

Maybe like 8cm.

If the suspension had traveled more, the car would crash the skid plate to the ground.

 

1 hour ago, Papez said:

Air shock. The car is quite heavily modified Felicia Fun. @Skury was active on this forum, so he might tell more

5 bolt on the rear is the easier part, since 93 Favorit and Felicia use the entire brake assembly from MK3 Golf. The front is the issue, because it's specific for Favorit/Felicia, which is why the front conversion needs parts from different brands.

I wish. I'm always interested in such a fine car he has.

 

23 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

When I got the car 4 years ago, the front swing arms, shocks, springs, front axles, their boots etc. were new. Had been replaced by the previous owner before the sale of the car.  It's just like this from the day one.

Of course these parts are not OE. All of them are aftermarket.

 

New doesn't mean good. Dampers may have different damper rate. Now when we are talking about it, when I bought my car, it had some aftermarket, extremely stiff dampers with very similar behaviour that you're describing. They also had smaller body, so the front wheels had 2° camber angle.

 

27 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

Felicia has a higher engine position than fav. and might not be comparable.

 

I think, this is normal for this car.

When you look from the side, the car looks like an ordinary car with ample suspension movement space but the ground clearance under the skid plate is very low.

 

The engine mount is identical between Favorit and Felicia. The only difference is the rubber bushing, favorit's is more likely to collapse under the engine's weight. The gearbox mount is entirely different, so it's hard to say, but I doubt there is a difference.

Felicia is also quite low under the bell housing, skidplates were quite popular acessory for lowered cars.

1 hour ago, Papez said:

 

New doesn't mean good. Dampers may have different damper rate. Now when we are talking about it, when I bought my car, it had some aftermarket, extremely stiff dampers with very similar behaviour that you're describing. They also had smaller body, so the front wheels had 2° camber angle.

 

 

The engine mount is identical between Favorit and Felicia. The only difference is the rubber bushing, favorit's is more likely to collapse under the engine's weight. The gearbox mount is entirely different, so it's hard to say, but I doubt there is a difference.

Felicia is also quite low under the bell housing, skidplates were quite popular acessory for lowered cars.

Of course the mounts are identical but I remember reading somewhere that felicia's engine is hung 4cm higher than fav.

 

Skidplate is a must have for daily use. Without it, I would have crashed and damaged the gearbox housing many times.

But it weights 10kg and reduces the ground clearance further.

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

Of course the mounts are identical but I remember reading somewhere that felicia's engine is hung 4cm higher than fav.

VW engines were mounted a bit higher to lift the oil pan, but the 1.3 engine was the same. The engine bushing has 76mm diameter, a collapsed bushing may do ~2cm difference.

 

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

But it weights 10kg and reduces the ground clearance further.

 

Felicia 1.6 dampers may take care of that - there was 20kg difference between those 2 and some higher equipped 1.3 Felicias had them from the factory, according to the service manual.